The Ukraine War

[ramit]

7 hours ago, Bris Vegas said:

Correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t this Putin’s war? 

You can question whether Zelenski is sacrificing Ukrainian lives to defend his government’s beliefs. It’s valid.

But there is a big difference between being backed into a corner and making that decision and just outright instigating a war.

This war did not start with Russia's involvement, surely you know this.

[Crewton]

38 minutes ago, ramit said:

This war did not start with Russia's involvement, surely you know this.

Who kicked the troll's nest?

[ramit]

7 hours ago, Crewton said:

Who kicked the troll's nest?

Lets just agree that it's a matter of perspective, the gist of it is, men get used as disposable property, I will never agree to that, from whatever side or purpose that arises.

[Ramarena]

Some Telegram channels are saying the at the 18 F-16’s from the Netherlands, will be arriving before new year.

That’ll be a big boost to Ukraines defensive lines.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/netherlands-deliver-18-f-16-fighter-jets-ukraine-2023-12-22/

[Ramarena]

On 22/12/2023 at 17:17, Ramarena said:

Wow. Looks like Ukraine shot down 3 SU-34’s using a Patriot battery in the Kherson region.

Another 2 Russian aircraft were downed this week along with the destruction of the Novocherkask last night.

Sounds like Ukraine have been moving their new Patriot battery around near the front lines and catching Russian attack aircraft off guard.

The destruction of the ship means 20% of Russias Black Sea fleet has been lost to a country that has no Navy.

[Ramarena]

I missed yesterdays declaration by Ukraine that they had withdrawn from Marinka. Russia had declared it captured on Christmas Day but they’ve declared victories before that are just some guy planting a flag then withdrawing.

Sounds like the now standard situation at the front. Ukraine take out the meat waves for as long as they can, until their ratio of losses drops, they then withdraw if the area isn’t strategically important.

Marinka was pretty much completely destroyed by late 2022 and no one lived there, it used to be home to 10,000 people.

Watching the footage of the Russians celebrating the “liberation” shows an absolute hell scape.

 

[Ram-Alf]

2 men on Sky news yesterday, Both Army/Defence strategists, They were pretty confident that the end is near, Ukraine will let Russia keep what they have...ie the land they occupy, Ukraine will join NATO and the EU as they have now moved to the Gregorian Calendar, NATO have gained in more Countries joining them, Russia have lost in the money/goods services, Putin will no longer be able to move freely and not the power the world saw a few years ago, He's stuck in a Country that's heavily divided, China now at arms length, North Korea are a friend but one who Putin only needs for now.

I see the USA have sent their last load of support...for now, Our promise of F16s might not be sent according to the 2 men above, Imo it's now a case of who will come out of this looking the better...Zelensky or Putin...that'll be down to a little bit of propaganda 

 

[MaltRam]

On 23/12/2023 at 00:07, ramit said:

Lets just agree that it's a matter of perspective, the gist of it is, men get used as disposable property, I will never agree to that, from whatever side or purpose that arises.

Russia invading Ukraine is not a matter of perspective. It's cold irrefutable fact.

You can agree differently, but there are consequences. People in all civilised fora, even this one, will think you're trolling, insane, or in pay of the Kremlin.

[ramit]

10 hours ago, MaltRam said:

Russia invading Ukraine is not a matter of perspective. It's cold irrefutable fact.

You can agree differently, but there are consequences. People in all civilised fora, even this one, will think you're trolling, insane, or in pay of the Kremlin.

Have you been stewing over my post from December 23 all Christmas?  I hope not, but that you had a very merry time of it, this season of goodwill and decency toward one another.

To clarify and hopefully ease your mind, I did not deny that Russia invaded Ukraine, just stated that the war did not start at that time, for the Minks agreement was never adhered to and civilians in the Russian speaking eastern districts continued to come under attacks.

[Ramarena]

Civilian targets again

[Crewton]

15 hours ago, Ramarena said:

Civilian targets again

It was inevitable. Putin couldn't allow the continued humiliation of his Black Sea Fleet by a country without a navy go unanswered, and reminding the population of Ukraine that this is a war of subjugation, not liberation, is a centuries-old Russian way of winning hearts and minds.

[Ramarena]

Interesting data from Oryx in Avdiivka direction 

Russian losses: 

 

Ukrainian loses: 

Attacking force always takes heavier losses, unless it is steam rolling the other side, but those Russian loses are huge.

Data link here https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VIyACYHfnJi8cUMWjXAXDhS419l9IHcIhGJaK1RWMFQ/htmlview

[Crewton]

"Putin wants peace" but only his kind of peace:

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2024/02/08/russian-election-authority-rejects-pro-peace-hopeful-nadezhdins-presidential-bid-a84011

[Highgate]

1 hour ago, Crewton said:

"Putin wants peace" but only his kind of peace:

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2024/02/08/russian-election-authority-rejects-pro-peace-hopeful-nadezhdins-presidential-bid-a84011

Yeah, if Nadezhdins' support were to build and become seen in public....it could have been very embarrassing for Putin.  No wonder they found a way to disqualify him.  

His manifesto states that he is  “a principled opponent of the policies of the current president." and is against “unjustified use of military force against other countries” and is for “cooperation with Western countries.”  A former ally of Nemtsov too. 

What a shame that guy isn't the president of Russia.  

[Wolfie]

This has probably been mentioned before (I ain't checking 110 pages) but I'm enjoying the BBC documentary series: Putin vs The West (iPlayer).

Some very interesting behind-the-scenes info about the build up to the current war regarding international diplomacy etc.

[Comrade 86]

4 hours ago, Highgate said:

His manifesto states that he is  “a principled opponent of the policies of the current president." and is against “unjustified use of military force against other countries” and is for “cooperation with Western countries.”  A former ally of Nemtsov too. 

Needs to book only ground floor hotel rooms moving forward.

This has somewhat become the forgotten war with the advent of the war in Gaza, but the West don't seem to mind it rumbling on as it keeps old Vlad busy, while they crack on with carving up the remaining oil and gas rights.

[Highgate]

5 minutes ago, Comrade 86 said:

Needs to book only ground floor hotel rooms moving forward.

This has somewhat become the forgotten war with the advent of the war in Gaza, but the West don't seem to mind it rumbling on as it keeps old Vlad busy, while they crack on with carving up the remaining oil and gas rights.

Vlad quite likes to run against a few carefully selected and approved candidates... He probably wouldn't mind running against Nadezhdin if he was going to remain a quiet and insignificant figure. That would have made is victory in the 'election' more impressive and he could say that he defeated the anti-war candidate at the ballot box.  He could then claim that his war has the full backing of the Russian electorate. For some reason this fig leaf of democratic legitimacy still seems to matter to Putin.  

However, it seems as though Nadezhdin had the potential to be too noisy and gain too much support, so they've had to disqualify him on laughably spurious grounds. Hopefully he won't end up in an Arctic jail like Navalny.  

[Comrade 86]

29 minutes ago, Highgate said:

Vlad quite likes to run against a few carefully selected and approved candidates... He probably wouldn't mind running against Nadezhdin if he was going to remain a quiet and insignificant figure. That would have made is victory in the 'election' more impressive and he could say that he defeated the anti-war candidate at the ballot box.  He could then claim that his war has the full backing of the Russian electorate. For some reason this fig leaf of democratic legitimacy still seems to matter to Putin.  

However, it seems as though Nadezhdin had the potential to be too noisy and gain too much support, so they've had to disqualify him on laughably spurious grounds. Hopefully he won't end up in an Arctic jail like Navalny.  

Agreed, but while we shake our heads at Russia and remark at how unrepresentative their leadership is, I'm mindful that right here on our own doorsteps we've allowed a bunch of crooks to line their pockets with Treasury money while sneering at the great unwashed. Not comparable to Putin of course, but salient to the point you make about the need for states to maintain a veneer of democracy nonetheless. IMO, we do that too.

Edited February 8 by Comrade 86

[ramit]

The American empire must be the only strong player in the world.  A robust Russia cannot be allowed to exist.  This is the thought within the Russian power structure and so figures like Nadezhdin are seen as a direct threat to the existence of Russia, as an agent of the American empire.  There can be no peaceful coexistence with the folks running the west is the grim prevailing mentality in Russia today.

It cannot be denied that the American power structure doesn't want anyone hearing both sides of any matter they are intimately involved with, to understand the opposition, folks must only hear one side of the story. 

An American journalist is in Russia and has interviewed Vladimir Putin.  Before that interview is even aired there is loud talk of that journalist being a traitor to his country for daring to speak to that vilified man.  That kind of reaction reeks of fear of what might come out in that interview.

[Crewton]

13 hours ago, Comrade 86 said:

Needs to book only ground floor hotel rooms moving forward.

This has somewhat become the forgotten war with the advent of the war in Gaza, but the West don't seem to mind it rumbling on as it keeps old Vlad busy, while they crack on with carving up the remaining oil and gas rights.

Putin's been keeping a close eye on Gaza and the Middle-East, don't you worry about that. That conflict suits his purposes just fine, not least because the US has more than Ukraine on its plate now and his useful idiots in the US are doing exactly what he wanted them to do.