davenportram Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 42 minutes ago, i-Ram said: I agree with all that, but based on what we know currently, they are only offering £28m to buy the Club. Accepting that, you are right, they really will want to be negotiating with Morris and MSD to make sure both those parties can get on board with such a deal in the short to medium term, with a view (perhaps) that once all the dust has settled post-Administration they will offer a price for the stadium that sees MSD repaid, and Morris off the guarantee hook. Morris has already said purchaser will have exclusivity of renting and first option to buy. Negotiations will be ongoing hes also not charged rent while in administration so that’s helped keep us going a little bit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 30 minutes ago, i-Ram said: Just going to do that now. To be honest I didn’t know Morris had agreed options. Where is that nugget of info. tucked away on here, or elsewhere, and are MSD on board with their debt rolling on for a few months/years/decades to come. No guarantee I will post again tonight Kevin (or @duncanjwitham) as I am whacked. MSD debt id guarantee by Morris - if they are getting returns via rent and he’s keeping up repayments on the loan then why wouldn’t they Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orphanram Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 (edited) I’m keeping my powder dry on the Binnie bid. As a bit of news it’s much more welcome than the other stuff we’ve had this week but I’ve got a hunch there is more to come out on this that will pose further questions/problems. That said I usually dread the game against the Gumps but I’m really looking forward to the game tomorrow. COYR? Edited January 21, 2022 by Orphanram Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoracioCarbonara Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 1 hour ago, i-Ram said: Sorry buddy, you are a long way away from being correct. MSD are a creditor of the club - DCFC borrowed the money not Mel or his Gellaw Companies. So it is DCFC’s problem. The way that the Stadium security has been set up is that if DCFC can’t pay all of the debt, anything left unpaid after Administration (or Liquidation if the worst came to the worst) is only then the responsibility of Mel/Gellaw to repay. So if the Binnies are only wanting to buy the Club, and not the stadium, and they are only paying £28m, well them MSD are not going to be fully repaid from the work currently being undertaken by Quantuma. The only real security of any worth that MSD have over the football club assets is the fixed charges they have on the leases of the stadium and training ground, but I can’t imagine either of those are worth a great deal in value. I can’t be bothered to do the math tonight regarding how £28m might be cut and sliced, but if we want the Club to continue to play football we know the monies need to repay football creditors 100%, and Quantuma’s fees need to be paid too. So about £12m has gone already. £16m then has to keep MSD happy (in for about £23m probably at this time), and also HMRC (£27m) and unsecured creditors (say £28m). Interesting how that might be sliced, especially as anything less than 25% to each gives the EFL the opportunity to deduct further points from us. Doesn't look attractive to me, and as I said above it won’t look attractive to MSD or Morris. And I am pretty certain it won’t look attractive to Quantuma either, and I can’t see it being a preferred bid unless it ends up as the only bid. Quantuma and MSD, and not so important myself, would want to see the preferred bidder doing a deal for the stadium simultaneously. It’s cleaner for all concerned, and gets rid of Morris out of the equation, and gives the Club owner total control over the stadium. The only real merit of the bid is that a) it is a bid to be considered, and b) Binnie appears happy to take on Boro & Wycombe down the track. Other than that I am struggling, but let’s be honest beggars can’t be choosers in the chair we currently sit. Errrrm not sure this correct MM set up a company to buy the stadium and paid x amount - money is therefore recieved by dcfc and stadium transfers to a MM owned company - DCFC then take a lease on stadium paying a rent to that company - That company then takes out a loan on the stadium from MSD not any DCFC related companies - that company then owes MSD interest but reiceves rent from DCFC. therefore if MM deafults on loan payments they take control of stadium but DCF just have a new landlord, not looked at any documentation so forgive me if im wrong... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinhectoring Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 (edited) 9 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: Why wait until a Friday? Do you reckon Q work Saturdays? Yes certainly recently Edited January 21, 2022 by kevinhectoring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 1 minute ago, kevinhectoring said: Yes certainly recently I guess we'll hopefully see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinhectoring Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 8 minutes ago, HoracioCarbonara said: Errrrm not sure this correct MM set up a company to buy the stadium and paid x amount - money is therefore recieved by dcfc and stadium transfers to a MM owned company - DCFC then take a lease on stadium paying a rent to that company - That company then takes out a loan on the stadium from MSD not any DCFC related companies - that company then owes MSD interest but reiceves rent from DCFC. therefore if MM deafults on loan payments they take control of stadium but DCF just have a new landlord, not looked at any documentation so forgive me if im wrong... One thing: the filings suggest DCFC guaranteed the loans And the club going into admin also probably enables the lease rental (which is at an undervalue) to be reset Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie George Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 I see that blabber mouth Maguire has been on RD today. Wouldn't surprise me if he's on the payroll of EFL. He twice mentioned a 15 point penalty but the interviewer didn't challenge it. What's the additional 15 points for ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanjwitham Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 Just now, Charlie George said: I see that blabber mouth Maguire has been on RD today. Wouldn't surprise me if he's on the payroll of EFL. He twice mentioned a 15 point penalty but the interviewer didn't challenge it. What's the additional 15 points for ? If we exit admin without paying all creditors at least 25% of what they’re owed, we get -15 at the start of next season. If we don’t pay football creditors 100%, we get kicked out of the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 1 minute ago, Charlie George said: I see that blabber mouth Maguire has been on RD today. Wouldn't surprise me if he's on the payroll of EFL. He twice mentioned a 15 point penalty but the interviewer didn't challenge it. What's the additional 15 points for ? If you don’t pay creditors full amount owed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 3 minutes ago, Curtains said: If you don’t pay creditors full amount owed I assume you mean football creditors not all creditors r_wilcockson and Curtains 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie George Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 1 minute ago, duncanjwitham said: If we exit admin without paying all creditors at least 25% of what they’re owed, we get -15 at the start of next season. If we don’t pay football creditors 100%, we get kicked out of the league. Thanks. So without knowing the details of the bid which he'll not be privy to anyway,he's putting out misinformation. Definitely an EFL mole. If memory serves me correctly,he was the instigator of all this in the first instance with his emails to EFL regarding Derby's accounting practices. RD should do the decent thing and not entertain him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 5 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said: If we exit admin without paying all creditors at least 25% of what they’re owed, we get -15 at the start of next season. If we don’t pay football creditors 100%, we get kicked out of the league. I thought it was for not leaving administration without a CVA in place Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistoldPete Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 2 minutes ago, davenportram said: I assume you mean football creditors not all creditors I think we have to pay everyone at least 25% and genuine football creditors 100%. Boro and Wycombe should be out of the equation for any one of three reasons, they are not due anything, they are not football creditors and we hopefully now have bid from someone who will pick up the tab regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanjwitham Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 2 minutes ago, Charlie George said: Thanks. So without knowing the details of the bid which he'll not be privy to anyway,he's putting out misinformation. Definitely an EFL mole.. To be fair, it’s a genuine concern with us, I think. The fact that the Binnie bid is talking about paying the full amount is a good sign, but suggestions earlier in the week about needing restructuring arrangements etc were not. 1 minute ago, davenportram said: I thought it was for not leaving administration without a CVA in place I *think* that requirement has been dropped, the only thing that matters now is the 25% and 100% requirements. A slightly older article about it is here: https://www.efl.com/news/2015/june/football-league-clubs-focus-on-the-future/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistoldPete Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 4 minutes ago, davenportram said: I thought it was for not leaving administration without a CVA in place No there is no such rule. Of course EFL could make one up just for us. They have previous. jono 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 Just now, PistoldPete said: No there is no such rule. Of course EFL could make one up just for us. They have previous. There used to be - Luton got docked 20 points for it which put them into the conference jono 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBRammette Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 55 minutes ago, DCFC1388 said: There have been 2 sticking points in any deal so far...the Boro/WW claims & the stadium. Now Gibsons statement showed that his main issue is Mel getting any money for the stadium. So seems to me the Binnie brothers have decided to prioritise the Boro/WW claims over the purchase of the stadium. Now I dont know what that means in terms of the MSD debts, maybe there is an agreement in place? I feel like the offer will be to rent the stadium whilst we deal with the Boro/WW claims, if we have to pay them anything then the stadium stays rented, if the claims get thrown out and we pay £0 then I think thats when the Binnie brothers will buy the stadium. Whilst thats all going on, there is nothing to say the Binnie brothers cant sort a payment plan with Mel/MSD for the money owed to the. Maybe Mel doesnt charge us rent & we just pay MSD the money each month This seems quite a sensible potential plan as the claims are dealt with in a stand-alone way as disconnected from Mel and Gibson's hatred of him as they can be. The first question in his open letter shows how he cant bear for Mel to get anything. Stacks up with theory from Boro forum posted earlier. An agreement post-claims as you suggest is also sensible. Perhaps this is the pragmatic solution to take us forward against the dark side Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tombo Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 With regards to the stadium, I have a question on this. When MM bought the stadium for £80m, one assumes we haven't actually had that £80m lump sum? If we have, where did it all go? I know we have massive losses but that is obscene. If we haven't, when can we expect the money from him? How can he own the stadium if he hasn't paid us for it yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 3 minutes ago, Tombo said: With regards to the stadium, I have a question on this. When MM bought the stadium for £80m, one assumes we haven't actually had that £80m lump sum? If we have, where did it all go? I know we have massive losses but that is obscene. If we haven't, when can we expect the money from him? How can he own the stadium if he hasn't paid us for it yet? Wasn’t that figure used purely for FFP purposes ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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