**DCFC Fans Player Of The Season**

[RoyMac5]

2 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

At that point Cocu gave Bird his first start v Charlton & he and Knight were the catalysts to our improvement (2 Knight goals & 1 Bird assist even when down to 10 men for 70 mins). Sibley came into the side later in January (initially in the Cup) & then made a big impact a few weeks later. All 3 were also very good post-lockdown.

Right and then Cocu took us to the relegation zone, how good where they then?

[LeedsCityRam]

14 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Right and then Cocu took us to the relegation zone, how good where they then?

Totally evaded the question I asked. 

We were 6 points off the relegation spots at New Year 2020 & with the kids, Cocu took us to 10th.

By contrast, exactly one year later Rooney's side were 3 points off the relegation spots but with a game in hand...pretty comparable. However, he either played the young lads out of position, ditched them and/or called them out in public. We were 5 mins from going down.

I know you are interested in youth progression. It must strike you as odd that the young lads did so well last season but not this season?

[RoyMac5]

5 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

Totally evaded the question I asked. 

We were 6 points off the relegation spots at New Year 2020 & with the kids, Cocu took us to 10th.

With Martin et al.

Look you ignore the fact that Cocu took us with the young players into the relegation spot. I've already given my opinion on why the young players have struggled this season - you ignored that. Evasion?

[LeedsCityRam]

Just now, RoyMac5 said:

With Martin et al.

Look you ignore the fact that Cocu took us with the young players into the relegation spot. I've already given my opinion on why the young players have struggled this season - you ignored that. Evasion?

For Martin read CKR. Not as good I admit but still a link & target man with strength, vision & impeccable technique. No other significant changes in squad.

What is a fairer assessment of Cocu's ability to successfully integrate youth & get results; a full 46 game season or 11 games at start of this season?

[RoyMac5]

4 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

For Martin read CKR. Not as good I admit but still a link & target man with strength, vision & impeccable technique. No other significant changes in squad.

What is a fairer assessment of Cocu's ability to successfully integrate youth & get results; a full 46 game season or 11 games at start of this season?

Martin or CKR? And midfield and CBs? 

Fairer assessment is to wait and see how next season goes when the pressure of relegation isn't hanging over them.

Edited May 21, 2021 by RoyMac5

[LeedsCityRam]

4 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Martin or CKR? And midfield and CBs? 

Fairer assessment is to wait and see how next season goes when the pressure of relegation isn't hanging over them.

There were no significant changes in midfield or defence. Davies, Clarke, Forsyth, Buchanan, Bird, Rooney, Knight, Shinnie, Bielik (injured) all here both seasons. Marshall was an improvement on Hamer at GK, Byrne a good replacement for Bogle. Lowe was not a regular starter.

Re the highlighted point, it was the same relegation threat. To illustrate;

Derby 29th December 2019

Derby 29th December 2020

Edited May 21, 2021 by LeedsCityRam

[Jimbo Ram]

29 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

Totally evaded the question I asked. 

We were 6 points off the relegation spots at New Year 2020 & with the kids, Cocu took us to 10th.

By contrast, exactly one year later Rooney's side were 3 points off the relegation spots but with a game in hand...pretty comparable. However, he either played the young lads out of position, ditched them and/or called them out in public. We were 5 mins from going down.

I know you are interested in youth progression. It must strike you as odd that the young lads did so well last season but not this season?

I would save your time and breath mate....it is impossible to argue with someone who keeps on insisting that 2 plus 2 = 5 ?

[LeedsCityRam]

Just now, Jimbo Ram said:

I would save your time and breath mate....it is impossible to argue with someone who keeps on insisting that 2 plus 2 = 5 ?

Not naive mate, think we both realise we won't change each other's opinions ?

Just trying to put the facts out there & link it back to how sad the 'contest' for our Young Player of the Year is. For a club that prides itself on Academy product development, we seem to have moved away from relying on them. The relegation threat is not an acceptable reason as I've shown with 2019 v 2020 League tables.

[RoyMac5]

14 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

There were no significant changes in midfield or defence. Davies, Clarke, Forsyth, Buchanan, Bird, Rooney, Knight, Shinnie, Bielik (injured) all here both seasons. Marshall was an improvement on Hamer at GK, Byrne a good replacement for Bogle. Lowe was not a regular starter.

Huddlestone, Martin, Lawrence for a big chunk of Rooney's season. Keogh?

So how come with Cocu and youth we ended up in the relegation zone?

 

[LeedsCityRam]

Just now, RoyMac5 said:

Huddlestone, Martin, Lawrence for a big chunk of Rooney's season. Keogh?

So how come with Cocu and youth we ended up in the relegation zone?

 

Already dealt with Martin...Kazim was a good replacement.

Keogh played 8 times in 19/20, Huddlestone started 11 times. Minimal contributions in a 46 game season.

Lawrence 37 games in 19/20 versus 24 games in 20/21. OK not as present but then Cocu didnt have Roberts or Jozwiak in 19/20.

So, comparable squads but very different approach on youth. Do you trust Rooney to develop our young talent next season & if so, why?

[RoyMac5]

4 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

Already dealt with Martin...Kazim was a good replacement.

?

You've still not answered - how did Cocu and the youngsters end up in the relegation zone?

[LeedsCityRam]

3 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

?

You've still not answered - how did Cocu and the youngsters end up in the relegation zone?

No Roy, I asked first. You don't get to ignore the initial question then change the narrative & demand an answer - not how it works.

Why have our kids gone backwards under Rooney?

[RoyMac5]

Just now, LeedsCityRam said:

No Roy, I asked first. You don't get to ignore the initial question then change the narrative & demand an answer - not how it works.

Why have our kids gone backwards under Rooney?

I don't know.

Now answer why Cocu and the kids had us in the relegation zone - did that lead to their (according to you) regression?

[LeedsCityRam]

1 minute ago, RoyMac5 said:

I don't know.

Now answer why Cocu and the kids had us in the relegation zone - did that lead to their (according to you) regression?

You don't know?! The evidence is staring you in the face - he has no idea how to manage them or bring them on & there is every likelihood this mismanagement will continue into next season.

Like I said earlier, I know you pay attention to the youth teams & relish their development. Not expecting a climbdown in any way shape or form but just think this through...Rooney is not interested in the very development both of us believe is important to this club (if I have that wrong btw, happy to be corrected)

Why did Cocu have us in the relegation zone come October? He had a very slow, ex-international midfielder & record goalscorer strolling around the pitch in a division that rewards high energy, high tempo football. Take it you remember Rooney's 'display' in Derby 0 Blackburn 4? This same individual also openly questioned the manager's tactics & his agent primed the press for negative stories about the incumbent manager. Cocu was also unfortunate with crucial injuries from start of the season - no Waghorn, no Lawrence, no Bielik & the inability to bring in another CF due to lack of funds, really harmed the side.

[RoyMac5]

3 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

Why did Cocu have us in the relegation zone come October? He had a very slow, ex-international midfielder & record goalscorer strolling around the pitch in a division that rewards high energy, high tempo football. Take it you remember Rooney's 'display' in Derby 0 Blackburn 4? This same individual also openly questioned the manager's tactics & his agent primed the press for negative stories about the incumbent manager. Cocu was also unfortunate with crucial injuries from start of the season - no Waghorn, no Lawrence, no Bielik & the inability to bring in another CF due to lack of funds, really harmed the side.

So none of them are youngsters, they were still good? Why continue to play play Rooney - oh yeah cos he had to. :d No Waghorn, well we've seen what he offered. No Bielik, no Lawrence so that applies to Rooney as well! Rooney also unfortunate with injuries - but he managed to get players in on loan - Gregory & Roberts. 

High energy, high tempo football with Cocu, That is so funny. ?

[LeedsCityRam]

6 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

So none of them are youngsters, they were still good? Why continue to play play Rooney - oh yeah cos he had to. :d No Waghorn, well we've seen what he offered. No Bielik, no Lawrence so that applies to Rooney as well! Rooney also unfortunate with injuries - but he managed to get players in on loan - Gregory & Roberts. 

High energy, high tempo football with Cocu, That is so funny. ?

Where did I say Cocu played high tempo football? I said the division rewards high tempo football. The rest of what you've said is just ramble/already dealt with.

Listen I've made my point pretty emphatically & backed up with facts. As I said earlier, not naive enough to think you'll back down but I'm sure the forthcoming car crash of Rooney's lingering managerial spell here will remove any residual doubt ?

[RoyMac5]

4 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

Where did I say Cocu played high tempo football? I said the division rewards high tempo football. The rest of what you've said is just ramble/already dealt with.

Listen I've made my point pretty emphatically & backed up with facts. As I said earlier, not naive enough to think you'll back down but I'm sure the forthcoming car crash of Rooney's lingering managerial spell here will remove any residual doubt ?

So why then didn't Cocu play high tempo, all Rooney's fault. ?

Listen I backed up my point of view with facts - you choose to ignore them. No problem. If Cocu hadn't dropped the team into the relegation zone things might have been different.

We'll see how it goes for Rooney and the youngsters.

Edited May 21, 2021 by RoyMac5

[bcnram]

34 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

No Roy, I asked first. You don't get to ignore the initial question then change the narrative & demand an answer - not how it works.

Why have our kids gone backwards under Rooney?

Sorry to butt in on your little tete a tete but it is a bit obvious. 
with very, very few exceptions when young players come through to the first team, they need managing, as in not being over played. Sadly we had little alternative cos we are very short of senior players. From what I could see, the manager did try to protect and rest them as much as possible. 

Young players need to come into a team with good senior players with the right mentality, we are definitely not over blessed in that department. 
 

Young inexperienced players learn on the pitch by example, an older head adjusting their position, helping them out or giving some encouragement. Derby have some great young talent, we lack the right players to put them on the pitch with. 
 

I appreciate that you seem to spend a lot of time wanting a change of manager. I am more interested in us creating the right environment on the pitch, even if it means selling some young talent to finance it. 
 

As I said, sorry to butt in. ?

[LeedsCityRam]

22 minutes ago, bcnram said:

Sorry to butt in on your little tete a tete but it is a bit obvious. 
with very, very few exceptions when young players come through to the first team, they need managing, as in not being over played. Sadly we had little alternative cos we are very short of senior players. From what I could see, the manager did try to protect and rest them as much as possible. 

Young players need to come into a team with good senior players with the right mentality, we are definitely not over blessed in that department. 
 

Young inexperienced players learn on the pitch by example, an older head adjusting their position, helping them out or giving some encouragement. Derby have some great young talent, we lack the right players to put them on the pitch with. 
 

I appreciate that you seem to spend a lot of time wanting a change of manager. I am more interested in us creating the right environment on the pitch, even if it means selling some young talent to finance it. 
 

As I said, sorry to butt in. ?

Don't apologise, it's a forum ?

Youth development is a complicated skill - you have to navigate the dips in form, make sure they aren't overplayed whilst they are getting used to the level (as per your point) but also carefully manage confidence. We currently have a manager who plays young lads out of position, has called them out in public & drops them a lot quicker than more experienced players performing badly. No idea how any of that is conducive to their development & that's why I'm arguing there is a clear link between Rooney's management of the young lads & the lack of youth impact on the first team this season. It's also telling how Cocu got Bird, Knight & Sibley firing last season despite the team being in a similarly precarious position around New Year - that is a manager who knew how to introduce & develop youth.

Re wanting a change of manager & creating the right environment - I would point to players like Kazim, Waghorn, Marshall, Shinnie & Davies who are all experienced & have a positive mentality. The key problem is having an incompetent manager at the helm.

[Dimmu]

Sorry folks, seems like my post is a bit off topic but I've been busy lately...

It really is a tough call this season, but my candidates:

Bielik:
I don't think there is any doubt that Bielik is our best player. But player of the season? Nah, not enough appearances.

Knight:
He was superb at the start of the season, head and shoulders above our other players. But about the same time as we usually see notts forest claiming their title, his game start the fade away (dare I say, about the same time he got switched to middle...). Looked jaded in the last 10-15 games, maybe too much game time considering his workrate? 

Byrne:
Our playmaker and creator. His size was targeted and cost us multiple goals in defense, but in some games he was our only attacking threat. Got better and looked more confident in the second half of the season. Brilliant little player who cost peanuts so well done Cocu and a scouting team to replace Bogle so well. I'd like to see him playing as RW if we continue with 4-4-2. I think he used to play that position as well so shouldn't be impossible. Also, would like to see more physical defenders who wouldn't be bullied in air.

Clarke:
Mr Reliable had another excellent season. He has everything except pace. Steady 7 or 8 pretty much every game and that's excatly what is needed from the centreback. Mature beyond his years and maybe some day he will score from a corner or a set piece.

Shinnie:
Another steady eddie. Maybe just behind Clarke as Clarke had more 8 games whereas Shinnie got just 7. He is certainly making most of his talent, which is something I do respect and like to see. Not the most talented, but a prototype of a proper Championship player. I do enjoy his crunching tackles, those are brilliant piece of old school football.

CKR:
When we looked doomed, he stepped up with Bielik and saved us from relegation. A honest character, a leader and an exemplary player. Brilliant hold up play and playmaking skills. Hard to believe he has only two assists, he created so many golden opportunities. My favorite player from the current crop.

 

Conclusion:
My pick is Clarke, only just ahead of Byrne. CKR almost level as well. Wouldn't mind any of these winning, like I said earlier, it's really close call.

Edited May 22, 2021 by Dimmu