The coronabrexit thread. I mean, coronavirus thread

[Archied]

31 minutes ago, maxjam said:

Excess deaths (in all age brackets) have been running at over 1000 per week for more than 3 months now with no signs of slowing and barely a mention in the media - and that has been throughout the summer when typically deaths are lower.

 

And at a point where elderly ( in the main) have died earlier from covid that would perhaps been on death figures around now,,

deaths from causes unknown are hugely up and in one state in Canada ( I believe ) has risen to be the largest number of deaths .

let’s hope this is investigated and reported properly and not swept under the carpet so the clusterduck that was covid response is exposed and NEVER allowed to happen again

[RoyMac5]

2 hours ago, TexasRam said:

For all the smart arses not only what you wanted has killed the economy and caused a cost of living crisis, now this. Bravo 

 

"...Although 469 deaths were because of Covid, the remaining 881 have not been explained and the ONS does not break down the remaining deaths by cause.

Since the beginning of June, the ONS has recorded nearly 10,000 more deaths than the five-year average – around 1,089 a week – none of which is linked to Covid. The figure is more than three times the number of people who died because of the virus over the same period, which stood at 2,811.

Even analysis that takes into account ageing population changes has identified a substantial ongoing excess.

There were 103 Covid deaths in England on August 11 and the seven-day average is currently around 111 fatalities per day.

Questioned by The Telegraph, the Department of Health admitted it had asked the Office for Health Improvement and Disparities to look into the figures and had discovered that the majority were linked to largely preventable heart and stroke and diabetes-related conditions.

Many appointments and treatments were cancelled as the NHS battled the pandemic throughout 2020 and last year, leading to a huge backlog that the health service is still struggling to bring down."

 

What has that to do with vaccines?

[maxjam]

1 hour ago, Archied said:

And at a point where elderly ( in the main) have died earlier from covid that would perhaps been on death figures around now,,

deaths from causes unknown are hugely up and in one state in Canada ( I believe ) has risen to be the largest number of deaths .

let’s hope this is investigated and reported properly and not swept under the carpet so the clusterduck that was covid response is exposed and NEVER allowed to happen again

Yeah I've been mentioning that for a while... 200k people have early died with covid, you would think we would be in a period of reduced excess deaths now.

[maxjam]

13 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

"...Although 469 deaths were because of Covid, the remaining 881 have not been explained and the ONS does not break down the remaining deaths by cause.

Since the beginning of June, the ONS has recorded nearly 10,000 more deaths than the five-year average – around 1,089 a week – none of which is linked to Covid. The figure is more than three times the number of people who died because of the virus over the same period, which stood at 2,811.

Even analysis that takes into account ageing population changes has identified a substantial ongoing excess.

There were 103 Covid deaths in England on August 11 and the seven-day average is currently around 111 fatalities per day.

Questioned by The Telegraph, the Department of Health admitted it had asked the Office for Health Improvement and Disparities to look into the figures and had discovered that the majority were linked to largely preventable heart and stroke and diabetes-related conditions.

Many appointments and treatments were cancelled as the NHS battled the pandemic throughout 2020 and last year, leading to a huge backlog that the health service is still struggling to bring down."

 

What has that to do with vaccines?

The article is about the consequences of lockdowns not vaccines.  Something that a lot of people pointed out would happen at the time, but were called granny killers/conspiracy theorists etc.

We need more studies into vaccine injuries, there are a small number highlighting problems now and the Govt has finally started paying out £120k (risible sum imho) to the injured/families of bereaved. 

Edited August 19, 2022 by maxjam

[maxjam]

Excess deaths up across virtually all age groups bar the under 10s.  Delayed treatments, missed appointments and lack of NHS staff caused by lockdowns/fearmongering will account for some of those. 

Its good to see an official investigation into whats happening, but I would like to see some independent ones as well.  Lets face it, this Govt doesn't have a good track record re. the truth.

 

[Gone]

44 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

"...Although 469 deaths were because of Covid, the remaining 881 have not been explained and the ONS does not break down the remaining deaths by cause.

Since the beginning of June, the ONS has recorded nearly 10,000 more deaths than the five-year average – around 1,089 a week – none of which is linked to Covid. The figure is more than three times the number of people who died because of the virus over the same period, which stood at 2,811.

Even analysis that takes into account ageing population changes has identified a substantial ongoing excess.

There were 103 Covid deaths in England on August 11 and the seven-day average is currently around 111 fatalities per day.

Questioned by The Telegraph, the Department of Health admitted it had asked the Office for Health Improvement and Disparities to look into the figures and had discovered that the majority were linked to largely preventable heart and stroke and diabetes-related conditions.

Many appointments and treatments were cancelled as the NHS battled the pandemic throughout 2020 and last year, leading to a huge backlog that the health service is still struggling to bring down."

 

What has that to do with vaccines?

I wouldn’t of thought it was due to Vaccines, more missed medical treatments, missed seriously illness detections, damaged mental and physical health and increased poverty. All due to locking up a healthy nation and shutting down its economy. When we look back we’ll realise the handling of it all was one of the biggest catastrophes in mankind’s history, 

[RoyMac5]

1 hour ago, maxjam said:

The article is about the consequences of lockdowns not vaccines.  Something that a lot of people pointed out would happen at the time, but were called granny killers/conspiracy theorists etc.

We need more studies into vaccine injuries, there are a small number highlighting problems now and the Govt has finally started paying out £120k (risible sum imho) to the injured/families of bereaved. 

What sort of percentages are you talking about out of the total vaccines given?

Oh and cost-wise that will also impact on other areas of the NHS?

Edited August 19, 2022 by RoyMac5

[maxjam]

18 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

What sort of percentages are you talking about out of the total vaccines given?

Oh and cost-wise that will also impact on other areas of the NHS?

Ask those questions again in 5-10 years when we have more data.

Currently the Govt only pays out if you died from a covid jab or were severely disabled and claims can take in excess of 6 months.  Given how litigious society is these days if I was a gambling man I would bet on the payments being increased massively and the threshold to receive them being lowered.

https://www.gov.uk/vaccine-damage-payment

https://www.gov.uk/vaccine-damage-payment/how-to-claim

[Stive Pesley]

45 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

All due to locking up a healthy nation and shutting down its economy. When we look back we’ll realise the handling of it all was one of the biggest catastrophes in mankind’s history

I just hope that we all stop with this "I was right, you were wrong" smug nonsense and look at it like the intelligent humans we all claim to be. Not just "oh look we're now seeing loads of excess deaths - I told you lockdown was wrong", because it's all hindsight and clearly if we'd not had lockdowns there would have been a hell of a lot more covid deaths, and if we'd not had vaccines there would have been a hell of a lot more covid deaths/maxed out hospitals/crippled public services

There needs to be a holistic (and as Max crucially says independent) review of the whole response AND the aftermath,  with the main purpose being to inform the optimum strategy for handling future pandemics (rather than culture wars point-scoring). Everything else is just noise

 

[Stive Pesley]

5 minutes ago, maxjam said:

Ask those questions again in 5-10 years when we have more data.

Currently the Govt only pays out if you died from a covid jab or were severely disabled and claims can take in excess of 6 months.  Given how litigious society is these days if I was a gambling man I would bet on the payments being increased massively and the threshold to receive them being lowered.

https://www.gov.uk/vaccine-damage-payment

https://www.gov.uk/vaccine-damage-payment/how-to-claim

That's the Vaccine Damage Payment scheme that existed long before Covid. It would be interesting to see the stats of how many claims there have been post-covid vaccines against pre-covid claims (obviously as a percentage of vaccines given). That would feel like a true indicator of how much more risky the speedily developed and tested covid vaccines are

[Gone]

11 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

I just hope that we all stop with this "I was right, you were wrong" smug nonsense and look at it like the intelligent humans we all claim to be. Not just "oh look we're now seeing loads of excess deaths - I told you lockdown was wrong", because it's all hindsight and clearly if we'd not had lockdowns there would have been a hell of a lot more covid deaths, and if we'd not had vaccines there would have been a hell of a lot more covid deaths/maxed out hospitals/crippled public services

There needs to be a holistic (and as Max crucially says independent) review of the whole response AND the aftermath,  with the main purpose being to inform the optimum strategy for handling future pandemics (rather than culture wars point-scoring). Everything else is just noise

 

Haha what a great reply, “now we have realised we were totally wrong about something, let’s not highlight it please”

Sorry but after all the comments of “stupid” “idot” “selfish” “clown” etc etc over debating that is was all a huge mistake at the time to us lockdown, I will now quite happily reveal in that I was absolutely on the money. 

Edited August 19, 2022 by TexasRam

[maxjam]

24 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

I just hope that we all stop with this "I was right, you were wrong" smug nonsense and look at it like the intelligent humans we all claim to be. Not just "oh look we're now seeing loads of excess deaths - I told you lockdown was wrong", because it's all hindsight and clearly if we'd not had lockdowns there would have been a hell of a lot more covid deaths, and if we'd not had vaccines there would have been a hell of a lot more covid deaths/maxed out hospitals/crippled public services

There needs to be a holistic (and as Max crucially says independent) review of the whole response AND the aftermath,  with the main purpose being to inform the optimum strategy for handling future pandemics (rather than culture wars point-scoring). Everything else is just noise

A truly independent review is key.  I don't know what the figures are in the UK, but in the US at least Big Pharma is in bed with the Govt and media.  The industry regulators are 80% funded by Pfizer etc, and they sponsor the media to the tune of tens of millions.

I do hope tensions ease tbh, the political scene has exhausted me over the past few years - fingers crossed appropriate lessons are learned.  That said, I do also hope that any review does heavily criticize those that labelled people with genuine concerns as anti-vaxxers, conspiracy theorists, racists and misogynists and sought to silence highly qualified professionals with different opinions. 

As we can now see from around the world, there was no one size fits all, can't argue with the 'official narrative' approach to the pandemic.  We'll be studying the data from such places as the UK, USA, Sweden, New Zealand, Australia etc for years and maybe next time be far better equipped to react.

The alternative however, and one that to me seems to be creeping in around the world, is that the powers that be are becoming increasingly authoritarian - which should scare us all.

[Wolfie]

1 hour ago, TexasRam said:

Haha what a great reply, “now we have realised we were totally wrong about something, let’s not highlight it please”

Sorry but after all the comments of “stupid” “idot” “selfish” “clown” etc etc over debating that is was all a huge mistake at the time to us lockdown, I will now quite happily reveal in that I was absolutely on the money. 

I'll agree it was a mistake to go into lockdown if you can tell me with any degree of certainty what the death toll from Covid would have been, had we not done so.

[Gone]

51 minutes ago, Wolfie said:

I'll agree it was a mistake to go into lockdown if you can tell me with any degree of certainty what the death toll from Covid would have been, had we not done so.

I am fairly certain the death toll would have been absolutely no different. Sweden is a good barometer for that. 

[JoetheRam]

13 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

I am fairly certain the death toll would have been absolutely no different. Sweden is a good barometer for that. 

But essentially you were prepared to risk the chance that it could have been many multiples higher with a virus that we knew very little about and everything was based on best guesses. Great if we "did a Sweden" but the chance that it could have been worse is easy to ignore when you aren't the one making the decision. If you honestly would have not locked down then you must need a wheelbarrow to carry your balls around with you (and congratulations on them).

Edited August 19, 2022 by JoetheRam

[Wolfie]

12 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

I am fairly certain the death toll would have been absolutely no different. Sweden is a good barometer for that. 

In late December 2020, Sweden was recording an average of 44 COVID-19 deaths per 1 million people, according to Our World in Data.

By comparison, Denmark was recording 5 deaths per 1 million, Norway was recording 0.5 deaths per 1 million and Finland was recording 0.3 deaths per 1 million, the data shows (ABC News)

[Gone]

8 minutes ago, Wolfie said:

In late December 2020, Sweden was recording an average of 44 COVID-19 deaths per 1 million people, according to Our World in Data.

By comparison, Denmark was recording 5 deaths per 1 million, Norway was recording 0.5 deaths per 1 million and Finland was recording 0.3 deaths per 1 million, the data shows (ABC News)

So, we did lockdown and look at our deaths per million. 

Edited August 19, 2022 by TexasRam

[Gone]

7 minutes ago, JoetheRam said:

But essentially you were prepared to risk the chance that it could have been many multiples higher with a virus that we knew very little about and everything was based on best guesses. Great if we "did a Sweden" but the chance that it could have been worse is easy to ignore when you aren't the one making the decision. If you honestly would have not locked down then you must need a wheelbarrow to carry your balls around with you (and congratulations on them).

Shame those best guesses were so far  wide of the mark, for which Incredibly people have got knighthoods for. I really wouldn’t have locked down, pointless exercise that’s we are all now paying for and will cost far more lives. 

I’ll fetch my wheelbarrow 

[maxjam]

2 hours ago, Stive Pesley said:

That's the Vaccine Damage Payment scheme that existed long before Covid. It would be interesting to see the stats of how many claims there have been post-covid vaccines against pre-covid claims (obviously as a percentage of vaccines given). That would feel like a true indicator of how much more risky the speedily developed and tested covid vaccines are

Quickly googled this;

https://www.pcgamer.com/play-as-spider-mans-dead-uncles-gravestone-with-this-messed-up-mod/

Between 1997 and 2019 £74m had been paid out to 941 claimants.

https://www.bmj.com/content/377/bmj.o1565

'The NHS Business Services Authority, the body that handles the VDPS, confirmed that as of 20 May 2022 it had received 1681 claims in relation to covid-19 vaccines.'

Obviously some of those will be rejected and others may yet come in.  It will probably be a long time before we know the true cost however as per this article;

https://www.bmj.com/content/377/bmj.o1565/rr

[JoetheRam]

4 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

Shame those best guesses were so far  wide of the mark, for which Incredibly people have got knighthoods for. I really wouldn’t have locked down, pointless exercise that’s we are all now paying for and will cost far more lives. 

I’ll fetch my wheelbarrow 

Fair. Not a sarcastic laugh emoji either.