The coronabrexit thread. I mean, coronavirus thread

[maxjam]

7 hours ago, ariotofmyown said:

I'l give you benefit of the doubt for not following the thread fully.

I said 37 billion was crazy money for an app. The government Committee looking into it said the cost was very high.

Wolfie told me about it was the cost of the testing too and people who tracked it.

I thanked him and said it still seems very high though.

You went off on some Corbyn 52% chat like it was 2016.

Maybe you are happy with 37 billion spent on track and trace that hasn't been very good?

Maybe cos the 37bn figure was bought up by Corbyn as per the fact link check I posted earlier;

https://fullfact.org/health/test-trace-march-2021/

and another one here;

https://fullfact.org/online/37bn-test-trace-spending/

“...if £37 billion can be found to pay Serco for a failed track and trace system, the money must be available to pay NHS staff properly.”

JEREMY CORBYN MP, 8 MARCH 2021.

 

Also according to the Fact Check link;

 

 

Budget vs cost

Finally, much talk in recent weeks has revolved around the £37 billion earmarked for Test and Trace.

This comprises £22 billion in 2020/21 and a further £15 billion in 2021/22.

However, this should be understood as the budget for Test and Trace, not how much has been spent so far on Test and Trace. 

Again, we don’t have up-to-date figures on this. When the NAO reported on the programme in late 2020, it noted that, as of October 2020, Test and Trace had spent £4 billion despite budgeting to have spent £6 billion.

It noted that the largest underspend was related to laboratories, machines and mass testing.  

Earlier this year, senior health official David Williams told the Public Accounts Committee that the spend to November was £5.7 billion and that it expected that the eventual spend for Test and Trace in 2020/21 would be in the “low 20s, or maybe the very high teens.” He added that testing “continues to be the principal driver of cost.”

 

But lets not get facts get in the way of a good story ?  And I can pretty much guarantee that despite evidence to the contrary 37bn will continue to be thrown around in the thread as stick to beat the Tories with.  We have more than enough actual things to criticise them for without falling for media distortions.

[ariotofmyown]

1 hour ago, maxjam said:

Maybe cos the 37bn figure was bought up by Corbyn as per the fact link check I posted earlier;

https://fullfact.org/health/test-trace-march-2021/

and another one here;

https://fullfact.org/online/37bn-test-trace-spending/

“...if £37 billion can be found to pay Serco for a failed track and trace system, the money must be available to pay NHS staff properly.”

JEREMY CORBYN MP, 8 MARCH 2021.

 

Also according to the Fact Check link;

 

 

Budget vs cost

Finally, much talk in recent weeks has revolved around the £37 billion earmarked for Test and Trace.

This comprises £22 billion in 2020/21 and a further £15 billion in 2021/22.

However, this should be understood as the budget for Test and Trace, not how much has been spent so far on Test and Trace. 

Again, we don’t have up-to-date figures on this. When the NAO reported on the programme in late 2020, it noted that, as of October 2020, Test and Trace had spent £4 billion despite budgeting to have spent £6 billion.

It noted that the largest underspend was related to laboratories, machines and mass testing.  

Earlier this year, senior health official David Williams told the Public Accounts Committee that the spend to November was £5.7 billion and that it expected that the eventual spend for Test and Trace in 2020/21 would be in the “low 20s, or maybe the very high teens.” He added that testing “continues to be the principal driver of cost.”

 

But lets not get facts get in the way of a good story ?  And I can pretty much guarantee that despite evidence to the contrary 37bn will continue to be thrown around in the thread as stick to beat the Tories with.  We have more than enough actual things to criticise them for without falling for media distortions.

Fair enough, I see what you mean now. Rather than media distortion though, I was getting the figure from the government link I posted earlier. I hadn't see the figure anywhere else or seen any of Corbyn's comments on the matter.

I think parliament committees need to make their comments less sesenational... 

https://committees.parliament.uk/work/906/covid19-test-track-and-trace-part-1/news/150988/unimaginable-cost-of-test-trace-failed-to-deliver-central-promise-of-averting-another-lockdown/

[ariotofmyown]

2 hours ago, Archied said:

Would these dark forces you ridicule be the the same kind of dark forces that hoodwink us into going to war against non existent weapons of mass destruction, the kind that spout the war on drugs but actually work with the drug dealers to achieve their own political and economic aims , the kind of dark unseen forces that influence free western elections and referendums ,the kind that destabilise countries put in their chosen dictators or puppet government s to the detriment of the people in those countries,then go to war with them to remove those dictators when they no longer cooperate?
yeah silly me there’s no such dark forces that hoodwink the masses , from your post I’m sure you agree with all the above and not just select the dark forces that suit??‍♂️

That will be very comforting to someone worried about an older parent with lung cancer.

A colleague knows someone in hospital with Covid. Had two jabs but also has underlying health issues. May I forward your post on so they know it's all being exaggerated for reasons you have still never been able to reveal.

[ariotofmyown]

Government are now saying people are expected to continue wearing masks indoors. Seems like they didn't like the look of the opinion polls on that one.

What a great way to govern.

[RoyMac5]

10 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Because I dont understand when things will change.

If I am not safe now, I never will be, so when will a point ever arise when I dont  need to wear a mask?

You aren't safe now - no vaccine is 100% effective, and it seems anyone can catch covid.

We're talking about minimising risks. So wearing masks, at certain times and places, will become the new norm.

[RoyMac5]

Another slightly worrying turn, but not unexpected apparently. The woman concerned had not been vaccinated.

[Tamworthram]

24 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

Government are now saying people are expected to continue wearing masks indoors. Seems like they didn't like the look of the opinion polls on that one.

What a great way to govern.

Have they changed their stance (or are you trying to score political points)? I thought the relaxation message was always - not legally required to but it’s advisable to indoors in public. Now if they’d reversed the relaxation then I think you’d have a valid point.

[Tamworthram]

2 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Another slightly worrying turn, but not unexpected apparently. The woman concerned had not been vaccinated.

It’s a rare event (at the moment) so, don’t get too alarmist. Statistically, you’re more likely to die from (fill in the blanks yourselves). Plus,  a non vaccinated 90 year old may well have succumbed to a single variant anyway.

As long as you’ve had both jabs I’m expecting you’re well protected against all the existing (and new hopefully) variants whether you catch them individually or, the one in god knows how many chances in a million of catching more than one. 

[ariotofmyown]

9 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

Have they changed their stance (or are you trying to score political points)? I thought the relaxation message was always - not legally required to but it’s advisable to indoors in public. Now if they’d reversed the relaxation then I think you’d have a valid point.

I'm pretty sure they have changed the tone if their message.

Johnson's big freedom day speech was about it's everyone's personal choice whether to wear a mask.

A few polls later it's "you are expected to wear a mask indoors". 

Rather than score political points, I just want people in charge that can make fact based decisions and communicate them clearly. Then keep the message consistent for a few days at least.

 

[RoyMac5]

49 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

It’s a rare event (at the moment) so, don’t get too alarmist. Statistically, you’re more likely to die from (fill in the blanks yourselves). Plus,  a non vaccinated 90 year old may well have succumbed to a single variant anyway.

As long as you’ve had both jabs I’m expecting you’re well protected against all the existing (and new hopefully) variants whether you catch them individually or, the one in god knows how many chances in a million of catching more than one. 

I wasn't being alarmist per se, I found it interesting and a potentially worrying twist for the future of 'post-lockdown'. Both in a, what will be demanded as restrictions and what will be available as vaccines, type of way.

[G STAR RAM]

1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said:

You aren't safe now - no vaccine is 100% effective, and it seems anyone can catch covid.

We're talking about minimising risks. So wearing masks, at certain times and places, will become the new norm.

No it won't and nor should it.

[Tamworthram]

1 hour ago, ariotofmyown said:

I'm pretty sure they have changed the tone if their message.

Johnson's big freedom day speech was about it's everyone's personal choice whether to wear a mask.

A few polls later it's "you are expected to wear a mask indoors". 

Rather than score political points, I just want people in charge that can make fact based decisions and communicate them clearly. Then keep the message consistent for a few days at least.

 

Well it is personal choice isn't it? They appear to have just modified the tone a bit - as you say. 

By the way, I look forward to the day when a government, of any persuasion, achieves your ambitions. 

[ariotofmyown]

5 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

Well it is personal choice isn't it? They appear to have just modified the tone a bit - as you say. 

By the way, I look forward to the day when a government, of any persuasion, achieves your ambitions. 

You are probably right, could be a long time.

I still think the PMs I can remember (Thatcher onwards) would have all been much better at saying:

a) this is the situation

b) this is what we think is the best course of action

c) this is what you have to do

The only time we've had that was when we finally lockdowned the first time.

So many of the decisions have just invited obvious questions that have been ignored/glossed over.

Not just with the current regime, but we need decision makers with the requisite experience and leadership qualities. 

These are some of the most important jobs in the country. We need to find a way of getting highly competent people to do them.

Javid seems a big upgrade on the joke of Hancock and Sunak seems decent so far.

[G STAR RAM]

1 hour ago, ariotofmyown said:

I'm pretty sure they have changed the tone if their message.

Johnson's big freedom day speech was about it's everyone's personal choice whether to wear a mask.

A few polls later it's "you are expected to wear a mask indoors". 

Rather than score political points, I just want people in charge that can make fact based decisions and communicate them clearly. Then keep the message consistent for a few days at least.

 

It would probably help if you actually listened to what was being said by them, instead of making your mind up that you already disagree with what they have said, before they even say it.

It really is astounding how many intelligent people, such as yourself, have found such very simple words hard to understand throughout. 

[ariotofmyown]

7 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

It would probably help if you actually listened to what was being said by them, instead of making your mind up that you already disagree with what they have said, before they even say it.

It really is astounding how many intelligent people, such as yourself, have found such very simple words hard to understand throughout. 

I don't listen to them, I just read biased media

[G STAR RAM]

7 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

I don't listen to them, I just read biased media

Would explain why you believed £37m had been spent building the app I guess.

[ariotofmyown]

3 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Would explain why you believed £37m had been spent building the app I guess.

Haha when is the governments own website gonna become unbiased!

[Miggins]

18 hours ago, Stive Pesley said:

I'm coming to the same conclusion. Deleting the app feels wrong, as I'd want to know so i can do lateral flows to be on the safe side, and manage my own risk about who I see and when

It's literally all I've had to look forward to all year - 2 weeks away in a flippin English village on the coast. I will lose my mind if that gets taken away from me at this point

 

I hope you manage to get away, too. An English village on the coast sounds idyllic! Good luck!

[maxjam]

The longer this thread goes on the less about coronavirus and the more about politics its becomes ? 

[Archied]

4 hours ago, ariotofmyown said:

That will be very comforting to someone worried about an older parent with lung cancer.

A colleague knows someone in hospital with Covid. Had two jabs but also has underlying health issues. May I forward your post on so they know it's all being exaggerated for reasons you have still never been able to reveal.

Same old tactic rather than answer , shall I forward your post to someone that’s perhaps lost someone to suicide through this , other untreated causes, had to let their loved ones die alone , live alone in care homes not understanding why relatives have abandoned them , live alone in lonely homes , lost their jobs ,business s , homes ect ect ect ,

you may kid yourself your sitting on some moral high ground but you are not