Guest Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 1 minute ago, ariotofmyown said: Covid fantasist Toby Young spent the last year vommiting his theories into the mainsteam media. Have any actual scientists had their careers ruined? Is Toby Young the go to scapegoat now Dominic Cummings has gone? No idea, but we have respected scientists being labelled as right wing funded fringe scientists, by John on Facebook and Jenny on Twitter, not sure it will do their careers any good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIllyD Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 13 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: The World Health Organisation don't seem to support the idea of lockdowns, do they have any expertise in this field? Ive never suggested load of scientists agree with me. I've suggested there are some but any time that they speak out, they instantly have people such as yourself and the MSM, with absolutely no expertise in the field that you are commenting on (as far as I know) jumping straight on them and setting about ruining their careers. Maybe many have concluded its just not worth the risk. I think it's been addressed quite a few times on here, but didn't WHO says they didn't advocate them as the primary solution. “We in the World Health Organization do not advocate lockdowns as the primary means of control of this virus.” “The only time we believe a lockdown is justified is to buy you time to reorganize, regroup, rebalance your resources, protect your health workers who are exhausted, but by and large, we’d rather not do it.” Unless you are referring to something else ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 5 minutes ago, BIllyD said: I think it's been addressed quite a few times on here, but didn't WHO says they didn't advocate them as the primary solution. “We in the World Health Organization do not advocate lockdowns as the primary means of control of this virus.” “The only time we believe a lockdown is justified is to buy you time to reorganize, regroup, rebalance your resources, protect your health workers who are exhausted, but by and large, we’d rather not do it.” Unless you are referring to something else ? No that is exactly what I am referring to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIllyD Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 2 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: No that is exactly what I am referring to. But you said the WHO don't support lockdowns ? That clearly says they do in certain circumstances? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 Just now, BIllyD said: But you said the WHO don't support lockdowns ? That clearly says they do in certain circumstances? Ok the WHO do support lockdowns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 47 minutes ago, Albert said: It is an answer in a sense, just not the kind you want. The reality is that countries that went down the control route, short term pain and all, have performed drastically better overall. Ultimately, if it took the UK 3 more months to achieve control, whether it took all the way up to New Year, the UK would be better off over At the start of the first lockdown we used to watch Ben Folds every saturday night doing a live stream show from his apartment in Sydney where he was locked down. The other day I saw footage of him doing a concert with the Western Australia Symphony Orchestra to thousands of actual people in the same room. I would rather have done a longer first lockdown and now have an open society/economy than 3 months, a weird rubbish half opened summer, and then another 3 months Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 56 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: Yes you are most likely right, when we come out of this lockdown it will be 6 months in total across 3 lockdowns. Had we just had a 6 month first lockdown we would be in a better position to control the virus. The economy would have been completely trashed though. Its bad enough as it is and that was with a pretty normal summer. You say 'it would be trashed', but countries that have been able to open up with it under control have been recovering quickly. With the way things have gone for the UK, they have had all the damage from the lockdown, compounded by the other knock on effects from high case loads, with a lockdown in terms of aggregate time was well in advance of what would have been required to control this situation prior to Christmas. 45 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: The World Health Organisation don't seem to support the idea of lockdowns, do they have any expertise in this field? Ive never suggested load of scientists agree with me. I've suggested there are some but any time that they speak out, they instantly have people such as yourself and the MSM, with absolutely no expertise in the field that you are commenting on (as far as I know) jumping straight on them and setting about ruining their careers. Maybe many have concluded its just not worth the risk. Which experts do you feel have had their careers 'ruined', and why do you think this has occurred? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1of4 Posted February 3, 2021 Author Share Posted February 3, 2021 1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said: How much longer would it have taken to get the cases down far enough to control? What would the impact have been on the economy? The length the lockdown had lasted would have been dependent on how rigorous it had been implemented. How many of us actually complied with all the lockdown rules, so how many would have followed the rules of a stricter lockdown? As for the economy, who's to say a one off stricter lockdown wouldn't have had less of an impact on the economy than the those we've had over the last twelve months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 14 minutes ago, 1of4 said: As for the economy, who's to say a one off stricter lockdown wouldn't have had less of an impact on the economy than the those we've had over the last twelve months. Agreed - I'd like to see the workings out of why 2 x 3 month lockdowns with a few months break in the middle would have left the economy in a better state than 1 x 6 month lockdown. The people I know who run their own business have said the thing that gave them the most issues was the uncertainty, especially when we tried the Tier system during the months between lockdowns. Never knowing when you might be allowed to stop/start trading again Asking in good faith - I dont know the answer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 Is the lockdown in place ? In my town, Shops are open Factories are open Schools are open im presuming it’s the same elsewhere. I just don’t see a lockdown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 Perhaps we need a lesson in basic English... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 16 minutes ago, uttoxram75 said: Is the lockdown in place ? In my town, Shops are open Factories are open Schools are open im presuming it’s the same elsewhere. I just don’t see a lockdown. It's not a lockdown, and never has been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said: The World Health Organisation don't seem to support the idea of lockdowns, do they have any expertise in this field? Ive never suggested load of scientists agree with me. I've suggested there are some but any time that they speak out, they instantly have people such as yourself and the MSM, with absolutely no expertise in the field that you are commenting on (as far as I know) jumping straight on them and setting about ruining their careers. Maybe many have concluded its just not worth the risk. Did you not read the link I posted 2 or 3 days ago? The WHO recognise lockdowns as a 'last resort' in order to regain control. You have interpreted that as 'Lockdowns bad, no lockdowns good'. Pretty much the same way you often do - take a few words out of context (straw) and then re-engineer the entire concept to fit your narrative (strawman). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 1 hour ago, Eddie said: Did you not read the link I posted 2 or 3 days ago? The WHO recognise lockdowns as a 'last resort' in order to regain control. You have interpreted that as 'Lockdowns bad, no lockdowns good'. Pretty much the same way you often do - take a few words out of context (straw) and then re-engineer the entire concept to fit your narrative (strawman). Yes, so do you think the WHO would look at our 3 lockdowns and conclude they were all implemented as a last resort? Lockdown 1 - no Lockdown 2 - no Lockdown 3 - yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 3 hours ago, G STAR RAM said: Is Toby Young the go to scapegoat now Dominic Cummings has gone? No idea, but we have respected scientists being labelled as right wing funded fringe scientists, by John on Facebook and Jenny on Twitter, not sure it will do their careers any good. Toby Young is a good shorthand for famous person spreading mis-information for money. So you claim scientists are having their careers ruined, but then say you have no idea if that is true! The Great Barrington Declaration was promoted by a right wing US think tank, as surely you are aware if now. That is why we have heard of it. Just to sum up, there are loads of scientists who agree with you, but they are keeping quiet so their careers aren't ruined too, although you have no idea if that has actually happened. Ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 8 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said: Toby Young is a good shorthand for famous person spreading mis-information for money. So you claim scientists are having their careers ruined, but then say you have no idea if that is true! The Great Barrington Declaration was promoted by a right wing US think tank, as surely you are aware if now. That is why we have heard of it. Just to sum up, there are loads of scientists who agree with you, but they are keeping quiet so their careers aren't ruined too, although you have no idea if that has actually happened. Ok. I didnt say anyones career had been ruined, you asked me why I thought scientists with views different views were not making them public, and I gave you a reason why they may not. Or, just to sum up, you have claimed on numerous occasions that nearly al scientists agree with the lockdowns and have presented absolutely nothing to back it up? When presented with something that went against your narrative (Sweden's graph being pretty much a mirror image of ours) you came up with lots of ifs, buts and maybes. But when anyone else mentions alternative theories they are dismissed as right wing and fringe science because it is not peer reviewed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 2 hours ago, uttoxram75 said: Is the lockdown in place ? In my town, Shops are open Factories are open Schools are open im presuming it’s the same elsewhere. I just don’t see a lockdown. The only difference I see is that fewer people are travelling in to the office to work, and not visiting friends/family as much. Oh, and no visits to pubs/restaurants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 9 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said: The only difference I see is that fewer people are travelling in to the office to work, and not visiting friends/family as much. Oh, and no visits to pubs/restaurants. It's only really the hospitality sector that is closed. Even then, hotels etc are open for people away on work etc. It isn't a lockdown. But it's good enough to reduce infections and keep the economy open at the same time. I mean, the hospitality sector is on its arse this time of year anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 15 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: When presented with something that went against your narrative (Sweden's graph being pretty much a mirror image of ours) you came up with lots of ifs, buts and maybes. But when anyone else mentions alternative theories they are dismissed as right wing and fringe science because it is not peer reviewed. Reading a graph wrong is not "an alternative theory" it's just reading a graph wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 15 minutes ago, Norman said: I mean, the hospitality sector is on its arse this time of year anyway What Christmas and New Year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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