maxjam Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 1 minute ago, jimmyp said: Is this the guy who made the claims that PCR tests are useless for testing for covid-19? Watch the interview and argue against it if you want ? Makes a few good points imo that I will have to look into later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 24 minutes ago, jimmyp said: What needs to happen to make you feel comfortable to take it? Jimmy I would go into it with you as I’m pretty certain that although we may not agree on everything regards the situation and it’s handling I get the impression your questions are genuine but to do so would as can clearly be seen as posting antivax content , misinformation and all that guff hence people are just disengaging in growing numbers , best to say there may well be a point when I feel it’s the right decision for me to have the vaccine , time will be a factor and a grain of trust returning in the powers that be running this whole shamble another??♂️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 1 hour ago, maxjam said: Watch the interview and argue against it if you want ? Makes a few good points imo that I will have to look into later. My god , do not let Albert near it with his zero Covid theory ,he wil explode???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 23 minutes ago, Archied said: My god , do not let Albert near it with his zero Covid theory ,he wil explode???? Australia is a "theory" now. Gotcha. Is it like Narnia? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 9 minutes ago, GboroRam said: Australia is a "theory" now. Gotcha. Is it like Narnia? No Albert theory is you cannot return to normal until close to zero cases ,, come on keep up , I’m beginning to wonder if anybody has seen you and Albert in the same room ?, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 Sums it all up ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 Am I missing something here, Bristol City manager tested positive for Covid but was ok to be at the match today, yet our Prime Minister tested negative but has to self isolate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 6 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: Am I missing something here, Bristol City manager tested positive for Covid but was ok to be at the match today, yet our Prime Minister tested negative but has to self isolate? I think it was the manager of the Bristol ladies team old chap, unless Dean calls himself Tanya on the weekends. Not certain but I think that's the case. As for Boris, well it's just another holiday for the most feckless and bone idle prime minister in British history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 6 hours ago, maxjam said: A really interesting listen... So am I wrong that this guy seems well qualified and not a crank so in a decent position to give an alternative to the gov chosen experts ? Honest question and if answer is yes then why is he being blocked from platforms ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rammieib Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 21 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: Am I missing something here, Bristol City manager tested positive for Covid but was ok to be at the match today, yet our Prime Minister tested negative but has to self isolate? DCFC TV said he had but its ten days since symptoms or test so the time was up. Boring was caught on T and T, and has to do 14 days. Complete farce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 8 hours ago, G STAR RAM said: No, I'm asking for you to back up your statement that large companies pay virtually no tax. This was already shown. Now answer my questions. 7 hours ago, Archied said: Nope your classifying what anti vaxing is , it is my choice whether to have this vaccine ( at this point?) or any other vaccine or medication come to that , you are then trying to force me to post what you consider antivax content,,not happening , question not answered , you stated in your opinion cases should be close to zero before we can / should return to normal , what in your opinion is that number ? Simple question Antivaxers aren't always opposed to the idea of vaccination as a while, and often they start with the thin end of the edge, questioning a single vaccine, and go from there. 7 hours ago, Archied said: To vaccination ,,, think that means vaccination as a concept and across the board , lets get this clear I DO NOT think there is any microchip in this or any vaccine ( yet again in your earlier post extremes used just like flat earth guff ) I AM NOT anti vax across the board , have had them ,my children have had them I AM NOT anti this ( these ) vaccine , if people want them crack on I WILL NOT be having this( these ) vaccines unless / until mandated or my opinion is such I’m comfortable to This is one of the classic 'well, I'm not one of those nutters response'. You're pushing an antivax position, it's not the most extreme of them, but you are certainly coming from an anti-vaccination position. At the very least you've softened your position in the past week or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 14 minutes ago, Albert said: This was already shown. Now answer my questions. No it wasn't. Answer my question and then I will respond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 32 minutes ago, rammieib said: DCFC TV said he had but its ten days since symptoms or test so the time was up. Boring was caught on T and T, and has to do 14 days. Complete farce. Thought I had heard it correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyp Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 42 minutes ago, Archied said: So am I wrong that this guy seems well qualified and not a crank so in a decent position to give an alternative to the gov chosen experts ? Honest question and if answer is yes then why is he being blocked from platforms ? Because a number of claims he makes in that video are false. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 7 hours ago, maxjam said: A really interesting listen... Max Jam, I quite like your gish gallop tactic. Post long videos, with no commentary on which points you're raising, and no discussion of relevance, then just leg it for a while. It's a old disinformation tactic, but an effective one. Anyhow, we're again watching a video of someone who is not an epidemiologist, so we're off to a bad start. Being on 'Unlocked', which describes itself as 'A new common-sense media channel for those abandoned by the MSM. Fast-moving & fearless, we speak Britain’s language', is always a bad sign too. Anyhow, their lack of credentials for the topic is on it's own not a major, so let's look at their argument. They start by claiming the pandemic had already turned when restrictions were in, which is already a bad sign for their argument, as it has been well established in literature that the cause of this decline was the controls. Going on to question restrictions despite that is not justified in his argument. He then questions the notion that SARS-CoV2 was entirely novel, and without immunity, citing SARS, and claiming he had 'read the literature'. If he had read the literature, he should have known that SARS had only around 8000 known cases, and its spread was stopped before spreading globally. The number of people with a pre-existing immunity from SARS is minimal. He then claims it's similar to other Coronaviruses in the common cold; there exists no literature to suggest that infection by these viruses gives people any immunity to this new one. Even if it did, we already can see from the data that this does indeed spread like a novel disease, and there is no evidence of substantial pre-existing immunity, hence how it has behaved in the community. It is very surprising that someone who has read any of the literature would believe that simply getting a virus from the same family would confer immunity. Yes, cowpox did for smallpox, but this is often not the case. If it was, the flu would have been eradicated by herd immunity centuries ago. They then claim that you don't get situations where almost everyone in care homes get it, then claims it's caused by this effect. This is nonsense, and, in fact, in countries where car homes haven't been managed as well *cough* *Australia* *cough*, we have seen numerous cases of one case infected entire care homes. He next attacks the notion that the majority of the population are still vulnerable. He then claims that only people who became the most ill have these antibodies, but large studies, such as those in New York, have already established that this is simply not the case. Even asymptomatic cases show antibodies, it's how we've been able to find most of them. If we disregard that notion, then we have no reason to claim that the percentage of people who have had the virus is as large as it appears. This claim from him is just straight up pseudo-science. He then sinks his own battleship by citing studies where up to 65% of people in care homes that were known to have the virus had antibodies. This is actually part of the care for there being large numbers of asymptomatic cases, and that it does spread easily in densely populated areas. Honestly, if I was watching for a laugh I'd turn it off here, as the guy is clearly off his rocker, and can't even keep his argument together for 10 minutes; poor effort. He moves on to attack the media's thing about declining immunity a few weeks back. He's not wrong that this doesn't show that immunity wanes quicker, but he's wrong to say that studying the same people and seeing this decline means the prevalence in the community is dropping. This would imply that these people have been consistently exposed to the virus, and this exposure has been dropping; this isn't how disease transmission works. Given his background, I'm concerned that the way he's framed that may be an attempt to mislead the audience. He then states, with no basis, that less than 40% of the population were susceptible. He then cites imaginary research in 'top journals' to suggest he's right, and that this implies that we're at we're already at herd immunity, and it is not possible to have growing pandemic. He then starts talking about the vaccine, then just offhand declares it's now actually 50% of people who have T-cell immunity, this figure has grown while he is talking; what a miracle. He then claims that the pandemic is fundamentally over, and bases this on the lack of deaths in London. He ignores the impact of restrictions and otherwise in reaching this conclusion, just citing his belief that there are too few people for it to spread. Honestly, I'm stopping here. His entire argument is nonsense up to this point. Multiple false claims and basic factual errors throughout. Youtube was right to pull it for disinformation, as it clearly is. If there are any specific later sections you'd like me to discuss, I'm happy to do one or two more if you specify them, and justify why they are relevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 14 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: No it wasn't. Answer my question and then I will respond. I did answer your question. I'm happy to wait for your response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 7 minutes ago, jimmyp said: Because a number of claims he makes in that video are false. Don’t quit get that jimmy in terms of the question ,, wanted to know whether his claimed qualifications are false and he’s a loon , I presume your answer was to the second part of the question only ? The answer to the first question surely has massive bearing on the second or am I missing something here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 1 minute ago, Archied said: Don’t quit get that jimmy in terms of the question ,, wanted to know whether his claimed qualifications are false and he’s a loon , I presume your answer was to the second part of the question only ? The answer to the first question surely has massive bearing on the second or am I missing something here? He has no qualifications in epidemiology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 6 minutes ago, Albert said: Max Jam, I quite like your gish gallop tactic. Post long videos, with no commentary on which points you're raising, and no discussion of relevance, then just leg it for a while. It's a old disinformation tactic, but an effective one. It wasn't posted as a gisp gallop tactic, it was provided as an alternative to what is being driven by the media for anyone that wanted to watch it. I personally thought he made some good points and I'll be looking into them in due course ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 Just now, maxjam said: It wasn't posted as a gisp gallop tactic, it was provided as an alternative to what is being driven by the media for anyone that wanted to watch it. I personally thought he made some good points and I'll be looking into them in due course ? You posted a literal disinformation video, which was removed from youtube due to disinformation. You're spreading lies, and I'd say given you're history on here, that seems to be the intention. As noted in the post you've seemingly ignored, looking into even only the first 10 minutes, it's virtually all false and poorly justified. The guy isn't an expert on the topic, and made some very basic mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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