ariotofmyown Posted April 19, 2020 Share Posted April 19, 2020 13 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: Another thing I'm struggling to understand... Germany getting heaped with praise for their testing (and rightly so) but they have had more confirmed cases than us (I know we only test in hospitals) but only a third of our deaths? Why is there mortality rate so much lower? Is it just because they are testing a wider range of people as opposed to just the people in hospital? Presume they tested people who displayed any symptoms, then anyone they had contact with, and got all of them isolated immediately if positive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i-Ram Posted April 19, 2020 Share Posted April 19, 2020 10 minutes ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said: Test, identify, quarantine. They adopted a logical process with none of this herd immunity lark and went flat out to implement it. That'd be my guess. I also heard and read somewhere that oxygenating is key. Once identified maybe the Germans are getting oxygen into them somehow before it becomes an intensive care need? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted April 19, 2020 Share Posted April 19, 2020 22 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: Another thing I'm struggling to understand... Germany getting heaped with praise for their testing (and rightly so) but they have had more confirmed cases than us (I know we only test in hospitals) but only a third of our deaths? Why is there mortality rate so much lower? Is it just because they are testing a wider range of people as opposed to just the people in hospital? Its a conundrum, i did see something that the average age of those tested positive is much lower, which is possibly down to the wider testing, younger people here have been encouraged to remain home and recover with no need to be tested so the death rate could well be much lower here too. Not saying the lower testing is right, i think it seems clear we have dropped the ball on that one. Could population density be anything to do with it either? Germany is a larger country but only a slightly higher population. Dunno... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted April 19, 2020 Share Posted April 19, 2020 3 minutes ago, i-Ram said: I also heard and read somewhere that oxygenating is key. Once identified maybe the Germans are getting oxygen into them somehow before it becomes an intensive care need? Could be. My doctor pals tell me that by and large, only serious case are being admitted to hospital so perhaps there's an element of the horse having bolted by that point? As many have pointed out, we'll only really have a full picture of what's gone on after the dust has settled but while a few countries have suffered the same we are, quite a few have been spectacularly successful by comparison, even those located on China's doorstep so we need to analyse their approaches and ensure lessons are learnt as this won't e the last time we will face this threat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Ram for All Seasons Posted April 19, 2020 Share Posted April 19, 2020 8 minutes ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said: Why is there mortality rate so much lower? Is it just because they are testing a wider range of people as opposed to just the people in hospital? They do test people outside hospital, but only those that report symptoms. Testing is the responsibility of the Gesundheitsamt, the local council's public health office. Roche Diagnostics in Mannheim is an important supplier of testing kits. There is also a lot more slack in the health system, because Germany has more than four times as many intensive care beds than the UK, and the occupancy rate is about 60%. The irony is that the current health minister came into office with a plan to increase efficiency by closing hospitals. That is now dead in the water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Ram for All Seasons Posted April 19, 2020 Share Posted April 19, 2020 10 minutes ago, i-Ram said: I also heard and read somewhere that oxygenating is key. Once identified maybe the Germans are getting oxygen into them somehow before it becomes an intensive care need? Extracorporeal membrane oxygenation is a technique that is used in lung transplants, when the damaged lungs have been taken out and the new lungs haven't been fitted. With coronavirus, it is used as an absolute last ditch attempt to save life when oxygen masks, ventilators and everything else have failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted April 19, 2020 Share Posted April 19, 2020 9 minutes ago, A Ram for All Seasons said: They do test people outside hospital, but only those that report symptoms. Testing is the responsibility of the Gesundheitsamt, the local council's public health office. Roche Diagnostics in Mannheim is an important supplier of testing kits. There is also a lot more slack in the health system, because Germany has more than four times as many intensive care beds than the UK, and the occupancy rate is about 60%. The irony is that the current health minister came into office with a plan to increase efficiency by closing hospitals. That is now dead in the water. Not sure how you managed to quote me there buddy as that's not my post. I do agree with your response to my non-post though ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chester40 Posted April 19, 2020 Share Posted April 19, 2020 36 minutes ago, TramRam said: I went for my Government authorised walk at 8-30 this Morning, 6 supermarket workers came out of the building and went into a smoking undercover area, Then 4 loading a Delivery van with 2 supplying the baskets full of goods, I was the only one who was social distancing ☺️ I suppose if you are told you have to work, possibly on minimum wage and are in close proximity to huge numbers of the public all day, with little or no protective uniform... After a bit you understandably get pretty blasé about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted April 19, 2020 Share Posted April 19, 2020 47 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said: Presume they tested people who displayed any symptoms, then anyone they had contact with, and got all of them isolated immediately if positive. Doesnt explain why less deaths from confirmed cases does it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted April 19, 2020 Share Posted April 19, 2020 5 hours ago, G STAR RAM said: I'm not calling for an end to lockdown but I'm a bit confused over why it needs to be extended another 3 weeks. Incubation period 2 weeks, 1 week for symptoms to start showing, 1 week to death. Obviously rough estimates. Most people have been in lockdown for a month now. Who is spreading the virus? It looks as though we are seeing some benefits from lockdown. maybe a 2000 fewer confirmed cases every day than might otherwise have been the case, and maybe 400 fewer deaths every day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted April 19, 2020 Share Posted April 19, 2020 3 hours ago, G STAR RAM said: The Spain one is very weird. On complete lockdown for 6 weeks? Yet still getting new infections? Just doesnt really tally with what we are being told about the virus, unless I am missing something (which I obviously am ?) Spain is seeing the benefit of lockdown too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted April 19, 2020 Share Posted April 19, 2020 3 minutes ago, RamNut said: It looks as though we are seeing some benefits from lockdown. maybe a 2000 fewer confirmed cases every day than might otherwise have been the case, and maybe 400 fewer deaths every day Unfortunately, graphs are only as good as the information you feed into them. Based on recent events I'm becoming increasing worried that we have absolutely no clue of what the true situation is. From the daily briefings I would say the only reliable graph is the one showing transport usage ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TramRam Posted April 19, 2020 Share Posted April 19, 2020 28 minutes ago, Chester40 said: I suppose if you are told you have to work, possibly on minimum wage and are in close proximity to huge numbers of the public all day, with little or no protective uniform... After a bit you understandably get pretty blasé about it. Agreed ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted April 19, 2020 Share Posted April 19, 2020 1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said: Another thing I'm struggling to understand... Germany getting heaped with praise for their testing (and rightly so) but they have had more confirmed cases than us (I know we only test in hospitals) but only a third of our deaths? Why is there mortality rate so much lower? Is it just because they are testing a wider range of people as opposed to just the people in hospital? Figures figures figures , how cases are defined and calculated plays a massive part ,any attempt to judge success or failure by this league table of nations numbers is a joke and I can’t understand for the life of me why people on here who are normally logical in their thinking don’t seem to want to give the issue the importance that it clearly has Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted April 19, 2020 Share Posted April 19, 2020 3 minutes ago, RamNut said: Spain is seeing the benefit of lockdown too. If these graphs were reliable do you not think we should be in a position to work out roughly when we think it will be safe to start easing lockdown measures? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted April 19, 2020 Share Posted April 19, 2020 Just now, G STAR RAM said: If these graphs were reliable do you not think we should be in a position to work out roughly when we think it will be safe to start easing lockdown measures? No, not really. We need to see a downward trend, rather than a horizontal line. and then what? as soon as we encourage travel and social mobility it will shoot up again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted April 19, 2020 Share Posted April 19, 2020 4 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: If these graphs were reliable do you not think we should be in a position to work out roughly when we think it will be safe to start easing lockdown measures? Perhaps once people start taking it seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i-Ram Posted April 19, 2020 Share Posted April 19, 2020 1 hour ago, A Ram for All Seasons said: Extracorporeal membrane oxygenation is a technique that is used in lung transplants, when the damaged lungs have been taken out and the new lungs haven't been fitted. With coronavirus, it is used as an absolute last ditch attempt to save life when oxygen masks, ventilators and everything else have failed. Sorry, been out giving my lungs a blow through. Thanks for the reply. The process you initially explain was not what I was alluding to. I was wondering whether Germany have a process of getting sufferers on to oxygen masks (quicker than other European countries) such that in some/many cases they might be nipping it in the bud before the lungs and heart are taking a hell of a beating. I have no knowledge on this - just have some memory of it being highlighted in a briefing. I think some of our companies are now designing and making automated oxygen masks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coneheadjohn Posted April 19, 2020 Share Posted April 19, 2020 Gentleman just came and asked me if he could buy one of these ? You can buy whatever you want,it’s absolutely none of my business...have you seen Deliverance?(l made the last bit up). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted April 19, 2020 Share Posted April 19, 2020 57 minutes ago, Eddie said: Perhaps once people start taking it seriously. Surely the graph would already take into account if people were not taking it seriously as this would affect the rate of infection? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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