EtoileSportiveDeDerby Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 5 hours ago, TramRam said: The standards of today, Sir Oliver Robbins who was patted on the head by Barnier and given a knighthood by May for failure, Then we have plain John Bercow who colluded with the opposition, Has failed in his attempts to get the Lordship he so craved. Barnier has now lost his free reign to negotiate, He's under orders by his paymasters to play hardball and try to re-capture the upper hand that he once had. As Jimmy Greaves once said...."it's a funny old game" Sadly it is Not really a game. It is the future of the nation and sadly the future generations who will benefit or bear the brunt of this political gamble. We got Covid, high level of unemployment to come, high level of debt, household income decling, property totally unaffordable so lets add Brexit uncertainty in the mix and see how our kids will cope. For those who think that Brexit will be a complete success, it is a big leap of faith. The government handling of Covid has shown that there was inadequate preparation, lack of clear direction which resulted in a shamble which has costed many lives. We are going into the unknown with Brexit at the worst possible time hoping for a stellar result, it is a big ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 4 minutes ago, ramit said: i will take your word for it. Am just an arctic islander with no mounted police to face up to, it seemed excessive to me. Well reconsider, ice can be slippy so you know about danger! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramit Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 3 minutes ago, Norman said: Any opinion on the obvious amount of stuff being thrown at them? You have stuff, right? It's not productive to getting a point across, i reckon. From what i've seen from the protests/riots in USA, agitators instigate the troubles mostly and opportunistic looters and vandals then step in. In other words, the protests get hijacked. Our 2008 protests, which i took part in from start to finish began peacefully and ended in a near riot. The atmosphere became dangerous, peoples lives were in ruins, houses foreclosed, a lot of people suddenly with debt up to their eyeballs. There was a point when a spark could have ignited some serious violence, but thankfully the police just held the line and didn't shove anyone or club with batons, even if some eggs went flying in their direction. When a few began throwing rocks at police, protestors lined up in front of the police to stop that behavior. Protests can turn tricky, sensible people on both sides can make a big difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 36 minutes ago, Andicis said: Attacking police horses, vandalising war memorials, this is not the way. The irony of defacing memorials of those who stood up to fascism....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TramRam Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 16 minutes ago, EtoileSportiveDeDerby said: Sadly it is Not really a game. It is the future of the nation and sadly the future generations who will benefit or bear the brunt of this political gamble. We got Covid, high level of unemployment to come, high level of debt, household income decling, property totally unaffordable so lets add Brexit uncertainty in the mix and see how our kids will cope. For those who think that Brexit will be a complete success, it is a big leap of faith. The government handling of Covid has shown that there was inadequate preparation, lack of clear direction which resulted in a shamble which has costed many lives. We are going into the unknown with Brexit at the worst possible time hoping for a stellar result, it is a big ask. A rational response ? just one caveat...there's no game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TramRam Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 1 hour ago, alexxxxx said: Yeah and now we pay billions and get nothing extra to show for it. My view, obviously. It is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gritstone Ram Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 36 minutes ago, ramit said: No, they charged alright. The stuff being thrown started some way down the street. When you see the horses going down the street you can see a lot of people at the side. Why aren’t they being charged at? It is obviously the trouble makers. These are the anti establishment mob who turn up to riot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EtoileSportiveDeDerby Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 3 minutes ago, TramRam said: A rational response ? just one caveat...there's no game. Exactly, but you ended your post with "funny old game" so I picked up from there. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 17 minutes ago, ramit said: It's not productive to getting a point across, i reckon. From what i've seen from the protests/riots in USA, agitators instigate the troubles mostly and opportunistic looters and vandals then step in. In other words, the protests get hijacked. Our 2008 protests, which i took part in from start to finish began peacefully and ended in a near riot. The atmosphere became dangerous, peoples lives were in ruins, houses foreclosed, a lot of people suddenly with debt up to their eyeballs. There was a point when a spark could have ignited some serious violence, but thankfully the police just held the line and didn't shove anyone or club with batons, even if some eggs went flying in their direction. When a few began throwing rocks at police, protestors lined up in front of the police to stop that behavior. Protests can turn tricky, sensible people on both sides can make a big difference. Yeah, apart from that has nothing to do with you stating that police horses were charging at innocent protestors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gritstone Ram Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 This has all stemmed from the US. My thoughts on the US is that they are mainly odd bods that generated from miss fits from European people that didn’t fit in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramit Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 35 minutes ago, Norman said: Yeah, apart from that has nothing to do with you stating that police horses were charging at innocent protestors. You asked me about stuff thrown and my opinion of that, but i see now that you weren't really interested in my views concerning stuff and my words were wasted on you, but thankfully others read the posts here too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cstand Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 43 minutes ago, Van Gritters said: This has all stemmed from the US. My thoughts on the US is that they are mainly odd bods that generated from miss fits from European people that didn’t fit in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 13 minutes ago, ramit said: You asked me about stuff thrown and my opinion of that, but i see now that you weren't really interested in my views concerning stuff and my words were wasted on you, but thankfully others read the posts here too. A bike was thrown, amongst other missiles, a horse was spooked and injured the policewoman, and an innocent protestor. Those appear to be the facts. You appeared to want to make out the police were charging at innocent protestors, and made fun of the policewoman hitting the traffic light. I just wondered why you left out the part about stuff being thrown at police officers. Those police officers who have done nothing wrong. That have nothing to do with American policing. They adhere to a higher standard of training, have a great record of policing fairly and hold higher values and morales of those in America. But are getting demonised for no reason on social madia without the facts being determined first. I've seen people asking for our police to be defunded. The world's going ducking mad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gritstone Ram Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 It’s obvious that people want to try and stir up trouble in this country off the back of what’s happening in the US. Absolute dick eds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramit Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 6 minutes ago, Norman said: A bike was thrown, amongst other missiles, a horse was spooked and injured the policewoman, and an innocent protestor. Those appear to be the facts. You appeared to want to make out the police were charging at innocent protestors, and made fun of the policewoman hitting the traffic light. I just wondered why you left out the part about stuff being thrown at police officers. Those police officers who have done nothing wrong. That have nothing to do with American policing. They adhere to a higher standard of training, have a great record of policing fairly and hold higher values and morales of those in America. But are getting demonised for no reason on social madia without the facts being determined first. I've seen people asking for our police to be defunded. The world's going ducking mad. The protests in USA have sparked protests in other countries against police brutality. Seems to me that heavy handed police reactions to anti police brutality protests is not productive to keeping order. Yes, charging on horses down the street did seem excessive to me, but like i later explained perhaps it is because i am not used to such tactics. i will point out though that the injuries were sustained because of the decision to use mounted police. True, my making jest of the policeman colliding with a traffic signal was thoughtless, but it was a response to a misunderstanding of mine that @Andicis was claiming that the policeman was thrown off his horse by a protestor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 15 minutes ago, ramit said: The protests in USA have sparked protests in other countries against police brutality. Seems to me that heavy handed police reactions to anti police brutality protests is not productive to keeping order. Yes, charging on horses down the street did seem excessive to me, but like i later explained perhaps it is because i am not used to such tactics. i will point out though that the injuries were sustained because of the decision to use mounted police. True, my making jest of the policeman colliding with a traffic signal was thoughtless, but it was a response to a misunderstanding of mine that @Andicis was claiming that the policeman was thrown off his horse by a protestor. Horses are great for riot control. What do you want. Water cannons, rubber bullets and guns? Or for the police to stand there getting hit by missiles? Because I don't want either of those things. Our police have nothing to answer for on police brutality. And have nothing to do with the current protests apart from keeping order. And that 'charge' was a Trot where nobody was injured. A dispersal tactic. Probably used to try to stop yobs throwing bottles at them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramit Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 2 minutes ago, Norman said: Horses are great for riot control. What do you want. Water cannons, rubber bullets and guns? Or for the police to stand there getting hit by missiles? Because I don't want either of those things. Our police have nothing to answer for on police brutality. And have nothing to do with the current protests apart from keeping order. Most of the protestors were peaceful, were they not? Hardly a riot then. i am just suggesting that a well organized calm police presence would perhaps have been a wise choice, considering the reason for the protest. How guilty or innocent your police force is is therefor inconsequential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 6 minutes ago, ramit said: Most of the protestors were peaceful, were they not? Hardly a riot then. i am just suggesting that a well organized calm police presence would perhaps have been a wise choice, considering the reason for the protest. How guilty or innocent your police force is is therefor inconsequential. I think you're missing the point. Horses are great for riot control. I didn't call this a riot. It has the potential to be one. If things kick off, you can't just ring up the nearest police horse base and get horses down there with sirens on their heads inside 10 minutes. Therefore, they are there already. Its called planning. Like at football matches. Do you feel threatened going to a football match because of police horses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i-Ram Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 7 hours ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said: If we're going to make fatuous comparisons then I suspect if as many cops as protesters, kneeled on as many necks, considerably more than one person would die too. I'd certainly wager there'd be a higher death rate than 1.5% as well! And once the cop had put Floyd under, what do you suppose was the reasoning behind holding his knee in place for a further 3 minutes? He's been charged and most likely will be convicted of murder by the US courts, after all. I'm not arguing that the protesters are not being hugely irresponsible and I also agree that there is more than a significant risk that there will be CV victims as a consequence, most likely some of the protesters themselves. The direct comparison with Chauvin's actions though, are wildly off the mark and you'll have a job convincing me otherwise, I'm afraid. I take the view that all lives matter, and you’ll have a job convincing me otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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