The Politics Thread 2020

[Angry Ram]

16 minutes ago, ramesses said:

To all the many BHAG fans on the forum…

This is all very well for a sales manager and perfectly fine for Matty boy to use in private behind the scenes.

But this was an announcement of a stupidly specific target to the media by the health minister that was intended for the wider public. Senior ministers then followed this up with sly changes about what the target originally meant. Then some blame the media for questioning this.

It’s poor politics - which was the point I was making.

So you were making a point that was nothing to do with the original point.. Way to go yoof..

 

Yours,

BHAG,, (I think.. The missus is checking as we speak).

[1of4]

22 minutes ago, Norman said:

The other problem with the target isn't really anything to do with the government. 

As I work in a prison, I could have been tested for a while. I haven't. Because occupational health who I have to go through are poo. So I don't know anybody where I work who has been tested. 

If it was easier, I'd have been tested, so would everyone else and the targets know doubt would have been met.

 

I'm sure that if you were tested, along with your fellow guards and all the prisoners in their care. Then the government's target would definitely be met. Not sure the public would be best pleased about some of these tests being carried out before all the workers and residents of care homes are tested.

[ramesses]

13 minutes ago, Angry Ram said:

So you were making a point that was nothing to do with the original point.. Way to go yoof..

 

Yours,

BHAG,, (I think.. The missus is checking as we speak).

I was disagreeing with your original point that the issues were due to a muppet media. I argued that the problems you were describing were much more due to the behaviour of a muppet government. That is, poor politics rather than a poor media.

(If she survived please pass on my regards to your missus.)

[Stive Pesley]

37 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said:

If you mean can I imagine that people get pleasure out seeing others confused, angry and lashing out?

Then no, not really.

But, please do let me know what I'm missing.

It was a wry jibe about the fact many of us felt that same confusion and anger when the media were dishing out that sort of treatment to the opposition at the last election.

Hope that helps

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, 1of4 said:

I'm sure that if you were tested, along with your fellow guards and all the prisoners in their care. Then the government's target would definitely be met. Not sure the public would be best pleased about some of these tests being carried out before all the workers and residents of care homes are tested.

I believe @Norman works in a prison so would have no problem with him getting a test.

It would be nice to see all care home residents tested, it would also be nice to think that the companies that are charging them thousands of pounds a week in fees might be the ones to stick their hands in their pockets to acquire these tests, rather than passing another problem on to the Government.

[Norman]

12 minutes ago, 1of4 said:

I'm sure that if you were tested, along with your fellow guards and all the prisoners in their care. Then the government's target would definitely be met. Not sure the public would be best pleased about some of these tests being carried out before all the workers and residents of care homes are tested.

In your opinion. If they weren't on 23 and a half hour lock downs and let out in 4s or 5s for showers and phone calls, I'm sure an outbreak would be far worse than a care home. There are 1100 lads where I work and 400 staff. 

The fact that there hasn't been an outbreak in any prison has to be applauded.

[ariotofmyown]

13 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

I believe @Norman works in a prison so would have no problem with him getting a test.

It would be nice to see all care home residents tested, it would also be nice to think that the companies that are charging them thousands of pounds a week in fees might be the ones to stick their hands in their pockets to acquire these tests, rather than passing another problem on to the Government.

Hold on, is the problems with testing a lack of funds? I'd not heard that before.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

Hold on, is the problems with testing a lack of funds? I'd not heard that before.

Could also be about logistics if the Government are trying to test the NHS staff first.

In this instance, nothing to stop the care homes acquiring their own tests.

Are private care homes the responsibility of the Government all of a sudden? I'd not heard that before.

[Tamworthram]

1 hour ago, ramesses said:

To all the many BHAG fans on the forum…

This is all very well for a sales manager and perfectly fine for Matty boy to use in private behind the scenes.

But this was an announcement of a stupidly specific target to the media by the health minister that was intended for the wider public. Senior ministers then followed this up with sly changes about what the target originally meant. Then some blame the media for questioning this.

It’s poor politics - which was the point I was making.

There you go. I said some would be more interested in focusing on the "sly changes" rather than the fact that testing had increased massively (albeit later than it should have been).

[i-Ram]

2 hours ago, SchtivePesley said:

What? as a member of the media? Try harder pal

Sorry I only speed read your posts - l was under the wrong impression you were having a go about the ill reporting of facts, and the spinning of stuff to generate outrage etc

You must bring us up to date on the plight of those 100 Chinese students some time Schtive. I am still struggling to sleep at night worrying about their welfare.

[Eddie]

7 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Could also be about logistics if the Government are trying to test the NHS staff first.

In this instance, nothing to stop the care homes acquiring their own tests.

Are private care homes the responsibility of the Government all of a sudden? I'd not heard that before.

Hospices etc are outside the umbrella of the NHS, and some have been complaining bitterly about the lack of PPE.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Eddie said:

Hospices etc are outside the umbrella of the NHS, and some have been complaining bitterly about the lack of PPE.

I think we all know that PPE has been sounded out as a problem from the beginning, although like many things it could be that this has been greatly exaggerated by the media.

What is the criticism of the Government?

Are they not trying to acquire more PPE? Are they not working hard enough to get it?

I don't see the internal workings so I couldn't possibly know the answer to either of the above.

I'd like to think they are working around the clock to ensure we are getting as much as we can and also that the PPE is from reliable sources.

[ramit]

i don't understand why Britian chooses to have politicians in the forefront during this pandemic, surely the people in charge of the different sectors handling aspects of the pandemic should be the one's in charge and answering questions from the media and public.

Another thing i don't get is why a long ago outlined plan of how to handle a pandemic was not implemented from the start.  Early, widespread testing, contact tracing, quarantining and isolating are effective ways of dealing with a pandemic of this sort.  Anything less is akin to marching naked into battle with a split shield and a broken sword IMO.

Genetics expert and CEO of deCode Genetics who has done important work in testing and mapping the different mutations of the virus is an outspoken fellow, sometimes too much so, in some folks opinion, but i agree with him here.

"It is all just a question of using what you have. They weren't vigilant enough. They didn't react to this early enough.

"You know, the countries that taught us the methods that we are using, in doing this in a place like Iceland, they didn't use it themselves. And that is tragic."

Text of interview and video in link.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-was-widespread-in-uk-at-very-start-of-pandemic-says-genetics-expert-11979580

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

Sorry I only speed read your posts - l was under the wrong impression you were having a go about the ill reporting of facts, and the spinning of stuff to generate outrage etc

You must bring us up to date on the plight of those 100 Chinese students some time Schtive. I am still struggling to sleep at night worrying about their welfare.

To be fair I'm pretty sure the media said they were all getting on the next plane back to China because the racism had got that bad.

[GboroRam]

3 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

What is the criticism of the Government?

Were they too slow reacting in February and March when it became apparent that the virus was coming? 

If they didn't react, has that contributed to deaths of health workers? 

I'm sorry but I'm not happy with "they are doing their best". If the answer to the two questions above is yes, someone should be held accountable. And that isn't party political, it's purely about accountability. 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, ramit said:

i don't understand why Britian chooses to have politicians in the forefront during this pandemic, surely the people in charge of the different sectors handling aspects of the pandemic should be the one's in charge and answering questions from the media and public.

Another thing i don't get is why a long ago outlined plan of how to handle a pandemic was not implemented from the start.  Early, widespread testing, contact tracing, quarantining and isolating are effective ways of dealing with a pandemic of this sort.  Anything less is akin to marching naked into battle with a split shield and a broken sword IMO.

Genetics expert and CEO of deCode Genetics who has done important work in testing and mapping the different mutations of the virus is an outspoken fellow, sometimes too much so, in some folks opinion, but i agree with him here.

"It is all just a question of using what you have. They weren't vigilant enough. They didn't react to this early enough.

"You know, the countries that taught us the methods that we are using, in doing this in a place like Iceland, they didn't use it themselves. And that is tragic."

Text of interview and video in link.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-was-widespread-in-uk-at-very-start-of-pandemic-says-genetics-expert-11979580

From listening to what Mat Hancock has said, it appears that the test and trace method only works if implemented when numbers are low.

Could it be that by time a pandemic had been declared and the UK finally got their arse into gear, that they realised it would be a futile exercise and efforts would be best placed elsewhere?

 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, GboroRam said:

Were they too slow reacting in February and March when it became apparent that the virus was coming? 

If they didn't react, has that contributed to deaths of health workers? 

I'm sorry but I'm not happy with "they are doing their best". If the answer to the two questions above is yes, someone should be held accountable. And that isn't party political, it's purely about accountability. 

Is there anything to suggest that they have contributed to the deaths of health workers?

Have all of these workers been proven not to have PPE at work and been in direct contract with patients with Covid 19?

How does the number of health workers compare with the numbers of non NHS workers that have died?

Think I heard the percentage of NHS workers that have died is pretty much in line with the rest of the country. (Think this was discussed on Talk Radio today)

[ramit]

13 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

From listening to what Mat Hancock has said, it appears that the test and trace method only works if implemented when numbers are low.

Could it be that by time a pandemic had been declared and the UK finally got their arse into gear, that they realised it would be a futile exercise and efforts would be best placed elsewhere?

 

i don't know what they figured, but they appear to have been caught with their pants down.

In Iceland we reacted too slowly in the opinion of many, me included and it was Kári actually who came riding to the rescue.  He began widespread testing of anyone requesting it and soon after random testing in order to get the fuller picture of how the spread had operated within the population.  These methods i mentioned will work at any stage of the pandemic, of course most effective early, but still will slow the spread considerably.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, ramit said:

i don't know what they figured, but they appear to have been caught with their pants down.

In Iceland we reacted too slowly in the opinion of many, me included and it was Kári actually who came riding to the rescue.  He began widespread testing of anyone requesting it and soon after random testing in order to get the fuller picture of how the spread had operated within the population.  These methods i mentioned will work at any stage of the pandemic, of course most effective early, but still will slow the spread considerably.

Comparing Iceland to the UK is pointless though.

Population and population density are worlds apart.

 

[Norman]

Tbh, track and trace looks like it worked well in Germany. But with no cure, it's impossible to stop the spread. Their R rate is near 1 again after coming out of lockdown. Looks like they will be going into another one. Did we accidentally get it right by not having a strict lockdown and not acting too soon. Obviously, numbers of deaths are horrendous, but long term have we managed to get herd immunity and take the NHS to near its capacity as well as keeping the economy going?