Cocu interview - Long term vision for the club

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

1 minute ago, Footymum2017 said:

It all sounds very good in an interview but the Academy needs a lot of work.  At the moment it is just full of egos, coaches that are more interested in themselves than the players that they are supposed to be developing.  Results are not great and they can't compete with most other Cat 1 academies which is down to the poor coaching and recruitment.  They have more success when they get to U18 and U23 levels as they have good coaches then and bring players in from other academies.

You are talking completely out of your backside. 
 

Why don’t you introduce yourself and back up what you are saying. 

[Footymum2017]

Sorry i’m only saying what I see, we’re all entitled to our opinions

[SaintRam]

9 minutes ago, Footymum2017 said:

Sorry i’m only saying what I see, we’re all entitled to our opinions

But what you see at what level? 

You say the U18s and U23s are successful, which they are - so you must be talking about younger age groups? But the younger age groups aren't measured by their wins or losses, there's not even a record kept (that I can find). Their performances are, largely, meaningless.

You say this is what you see, are you a parent of a junior academy player? 

[lrm14]

36 minutes ago, Footymum2017 said:

It all sounds very good in an interview but the Academy needs a lot of work.  At the moment it is just full of egos, coaches that are more interested in themselves than the players that they are supposed to be developing.  Results are not great and they can't compete with most other Cat 1 academies which is down to the poor coaching and recruitment.  They have more success when they get to U18 and U23 levels as they have good coaches then and bring players in from other academies.

So we can't compete with Cat 1 academies because of poor recruitment but we're very good at u18/u23 levels because of good recruitment. Oh right, that makes perfect sense.

I don't think you have a clue what you're talking about.

Edit - Damn, should have guessed you were a bitter parent.

[Footymum2017]

The results are recorded by the club but not published, parents can see them. Most matches are for development purposes and the there are leagues and tournaments that are competitive.

[SaintRam]

1 minute ago, Footymum2017 said:

The results are recorded by the club but not published, parents can see them. Most matches are for development purposes and the there are leagues and tournaments that are competitive.

I get the sense that you're an aggrieved parent. Is that right?

[Wolfie20]

14 minutes ago, Footymum2017 said:

The results are recorded by the club but not published, parents can see them. Most matches are for development purposes and the there are leagues and tournaments that are competitive.

You were asked a question - why not answer it? Are you a parent of an academy player (or former academy player)?

[Footymum2017]

13 minutes ago, lrm14 said:

So we can't compete with Cat 1 academies because of poor recruitment but we're very good at u18/u23 levels because of good recruitment. Oh right, that makes perfect sense.

I don't think you have a clue what you're talking about.

Edit - Damn, should have guessed you were a bitter parent.

I'm not a bitter parent at all.  Different scouts are used for different age groups and what they look for in players changes depending on their age.  When they release at 15/16 they then take players on from other academies that go into under 18s that strengthen the squad. That's just a fact.

I'm not quite sure why you need to be rude, if you don't agree then fine, I'm just voicing my opinion from what I have seen and heard from other parents.

[Nuwtfly]

54 minutes ago, SaintRam said:

 

[SaintRam]

10 minutes ago, Footymum2017 said:

I'm not a bitter parent at all.  Different scouts are used for different age groups and what they look for in players changes depending on their age.  When they release at 15/16 they then take players on from other academies that go into under 18s that strengthen the squad. That's just a fact.

I'm not quite sure why you need to be rude, if you don't agree then fine, I'm just voicing my opinion from what I have seen and heard from other parents.

Firstly, I think it was a tad rude for that poster to go straight to calling you bitter.

However, this is a discussion forum and you've presented an opinion, with not a lot of qualifying information, that really no-one on here (unless there are other Junior player's parents around) can challenge.

So I think querying you to get more detail into your opinion is a very valid response to your initial post.

 

Skipping it all though; and making the assumption that you're in a good position to hold your opinion and that opinion is fair I'll say this in response: Phillip Cocu has not been at Derby long, and his core concept appears to be the creation of a model that runs from the youngest age groups all the way to the first team.

However, he's going to start from the top and work down. So rather than post on a thread about Cocu's plan about how poo the junior levels apparently are (although the use of the term ego suggest to me that this is an emotionally driven opinion), perhaps allow some time for the steps he's looking to take to move down past the U18s, U15s and through those final few age groups.

Or at least maybe present the tone of your post in a way that shows you're happy someone is looking into changing how the academy works because of how unhappy you are with the junior levels.

[SaintRam]

@Nuwtfly I've tried for a long time to avoid using my favourite meme since you made it your profile pic; but sometimes, it needs to be used. ? 

[Nuwtfly]

14 minutes ago, SaintRam said:

@Nuwtfly I've tried for a long time to avoid using my favourite meme since you made it your profile pic; but sometimes, it needs to be used. ? 

Any and all Futurama-related content gets a thumbs up from me, good sir!

[SaintRam]

Just now, Nuwtfly said:

Any and all Futurama-related content gets a thumbs up from me, good sir!

Yeah but now using that one is like a Nuwtfly summoning ritual ? 

[ThePrisoner]

[Footymum2017]

13 minutes ago, SaintRam said:

Firstly, I think it was a tad rude for that poster to go straight to calling you bitter.

However, this is a discussion forum and you've presented an opinion, with not a lot of qualifying information, that really no-one on here (unless there are other Junior player's parents around) can challenge.

So I think querying you to get more detail into your opinion is a very valid response to your initial post.

 

Skipping it all though; and making the assumption that you're in a good position to hold your opinion and that opinion is fair I'll say this in response: Phillip Cocu has not been at Derby long, and his core concept appears to be the creation of a model that runs from the youngest age groups all the way to the first team.

However, he's going to start from the top and work down. So rather than post on a thread about Cocu's plan about how poo the junior levels apparently are (although the use of the term ego suggest to me that this is an emotionally driven opinion), perhaps allow some time for the steps he's looking to take to move down past the U18s, U15s and through those final few age groups.

Or at least maybe present the tone of your post in a way that shows you're happy someone is looking into changing how the academy works because of how unhappy you are with the junior levels.

At last somebody with a sane response and who doesn't seem to be taking my comments personally!  I don't usually respond to the posts on here as I don't feel qualified to do so but my son has been in the Academy system since the age of 8 so I do feel qualified on this topic.  I can't imagine that the majority of people on here are 'qualified' to comment on any of the posts but still do so and in quite an aggressive way.  How qualified are they to challenge what my opinion is?  Do they know from experience what is going on at the Academy?  I didn't say that the levels were 'poo' just that in general they can't compete with other Cat 1 academies, and it will take a long time for things to change by which time Cocu will probably be long gone.  The changes would be better to be driven by the Academy manager as that role is generally held by the same person for a longer period of time.

[lrm14]

38 minutes ago, SaintRam said:

Firstly, I think it was a tad rude for that poster to go straight to calling you bitter.

You said aggrieved, I said bitter. They're synonymous. I'm just trying to convey the exact same message that you are. Strange you find that rude yet you have no problem with another poster saying they're "talking out of their backside".

46 minutes ago, Footymum2017 said:

I'm not a bitter parent at all.  Different scouts are used for different age groups and what they look for in players changes depending on their age.  When they release at 15/16 they then take players on from other academies that go into under 18s that strengthen the squad. That's just a fact.

I'm not quite sure why you need to be rude, if you don't agree then fine, I'm just voicing my opinion from what I have seen and heard from other parents.

I'm not trying to be rude, I'm just saying you're coming across as someone who's resentful towards the academy for presumably how they've treated your child. You've offered some pretty extreme opinions about how terrible our academy is at the junior levels, yet from where I'm sitting it seems like its the best it's been for a very long time. Football is exceptionally cutthroat and if they're pulling in players from other academies then its fairly obvious that the club think what they have isn't good enough. It's exceptionally rare for a clubs youth prospects to be made up of players solely from the local area, the talent pool usually just isn't big enough.

[richinspain]

14 minutes ago, Nuwtfly said:

Any and all Futurama-related content gets a thumbs up from me, good sir!

 

[Rev]

4 minutes ago, Footymum2017 said:

?  I didn't say that the levels were 'poo' just that in general they can't compete with other Cat 1 academies, and it will take a long time for things to change by which time Cocu will probably be long gone.  The changes would be better to be driven by the Academy manager as that role is generally held by the same person for a longer period of time.

I'd assume Cocu would explain his vision, then the Academy manager would be the one to implement it, rather than Cocu.

Could you expand on how we can't compete at the younger ages against other Cat 1's, do they have better players, coaches, facilities etc?

 

[SaintRam]

11 minutes ago, Footymum2017 said:

At last somebody with a sane response and who doesn't seem to be taking my comments personally!  I don't usually respond to the posts on here as I don't feel qualified to do so but my son has been in the Academy system since the age of 8 so I do feel qualified on this topic.  I can't imagine that the majority of people on here are 'qualified' to comment on any of the posts but still do so and in quite an aggressive way.  How qualified are they to challenge what my opinion is?  Do they know from experience what is going on at the Academy?  I didn't say that the levels were 'poo' just that in general they can't compete with other Cat 1 academies, and it will take a long time for things to change by which time Cocu will probably be long gone.  The changes would be better to be driven by the Academy manager as that role is generally held by the same person for a longer period of time.

I feel as though "recruitment" for young age groups is a different animal though. I knew a few kids at school who just got a bunch of academy offers and went to the biggest club or the club they were a fan of - seemed totally in the child's hands. Doesn't seem to be a whole lot of input from the clubs other than that?

As for coaching; the problem there is the younger the age group the more likely it is to be a step in the career ladder for coaches just as it is for the players. So it seems reasonable that the quality of coaching would be poorer. Not sure that's likely to change, regardless of what someone like Cocu (who seems to essentially be a Director of Football at Derby as well as Head Coach) or the Head of the Academy does. 

Only so much you can improve the quality of coaching through investment; people still have to want to coach that age group if they're capable of coaching a higher quality group. And similarly to the recruitment problem, being the U12s coach at a Cat 1 club like Chelsea is going to be far more interesting than taking up the same role at Derby. We'll only get around that by winning the Champions League a few times ? 

What Cocu's plan can do to improve things though is the creation of the coaching model he talks about. If at all levels players are coached in the same way; it becomes less about each age group's coaches ability to create good coaching systems. They can focus more on specific development. When you take steps out of their process, the other areas should improve.

I think Cocu's plan will greatly benefit all age groups, even if he moves on within his current contract. Assuming it gets properly implemented before he does.

 

You have to accept that 90% of Cat 1 clubs are the biggest clubs in the world; and its the youngest age groups where that distinction will be most apparent. 

[RoyMac5]

10 minutes ago, Footymum2017 said:

I didn't say that the levels were 'poo' just that in general they can't compete with other Cat 1 academies, and it will take a long time for things to change by which time Cocu will probably be long gone.  The changes would be better to be driven by the Academy manager as that role is generally held by the same person for a longer period of time.

Hello Mrs Wassall, how's things?