Thank you, Keogh

[Millenniumram]

He may play football again, but he won’t play for us again.

[Sith Happens]

8 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

He may play football again, but he won’t play for us again.

It upsets me to say it as i am a keogh fan but I hope you are right 

[Xlor]

Stopped reading after 'legend'. 

[Mucker1884]

19 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said:

I think you know it wasn't a typo, so not sure why you'd even ask other than some lame attempt to shame me.

The attitude to drink driving when I first had a car back in 1979 was completely different to these days.

Once it started to become socially unacceptable as well as illegal, that was when things changed.

I'm not saying it excuses it, but pretty much everybody did it. I've know lock-ins where the cops were in there drinking too. Plenty of Derby players did it on a regular basis in the 70's and 80's.

Yes it was stupid and dangerous to other people and in no way right, but it is what it is and I cannot tell the 18-year-old version of me not to be a dick.

But, do you know what else is stupid and dangerous to other people too?

Breaking the speed limit.

I'm guessing though, that you have some internal barometer that finds it easy to rationalize that away as being 'different' even though 30% of fatalities involved excessive speeds.

 

I most certainly did assume it was a typo... as in I thought you actually meant driving "after having a drink", not literally being fully aware you were over the legal limit... "Many times"!  In all honesty, I truly believed I was doing you a favour by bringing the matter up.  Clearly I was mistaken, so apologies for that at least.
As I was only just leaving school in'79... and having not bothered to consider driving until a further decade or more (Aged 27 from memory, so 1990?)... I'm not familiar with the drinking and driving culture of the era you reference, but regardless, your "confession" does appear somewhat shocking... even if only by more modern standards.
And as it was a confession, by your own hand, I'd venture to say that any shame required no advertisement from me.

On the subject of speeding... seeing as you are keen to divert the topic... yes, I confess I have been known to mistakenly and unintentionally go over... even to the stage where I had 6 points on my licence (2 x 3points, each for SP30's, within 3 years of each other).  Never knowingly.  Never Deliberate.  But yes... shameful nonetheless.  (Fortunately, it appears at least, that I have learned from said mistakes, having had a clean licence since the turn of the millennium).  

There... we are equal now.  Both imperfect.  Both Shameful... except that I don't have the opportunity to defend my shame with "Everybody did it back then", so I guess that makes you the winner.  Well done you.

[Millenniumram]

23 minutes ago, Paul71 said:

It upsets me to say it as i am a keogh fan but I hope you are right 

I think we should make a point of him not playing again, but in all fairness, I think the decision will be enforced. An injury that bad at his age? No way he comes back the same player.

[Sith Happens]

2 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

I think we should make a point of him not playing again, but in all fairness, I think the decision will be enforced. An injury that bad at his age? No way he comes back the same player.

Even more reason for sending the drink drivers down 

[Millenniumram]

Just now, Paul71 said:

Even more reason for sending the drink drivers down 

Yep, would think the injury sustained by a passenger will worsen the punishment in court.

[Bob The Badger]

28 minutes ago, Mucker1884 said:

I most certainly did assume it was a typo... as in I thought you actually meant driving "after having a drink", not literally being fully aware you were over the legal limit... "Many times"!  In all honesty, I truly believed I was doing you a favour by bringing the matter up.  Clearly I was mistaken, so apologies for that at least.
As I was only just leaving school in'79... and having not bothered to consider driving until a further decade or more (Aged 27 from memory, so 1990?)... I'm not familiar with the drinking and driving culture of the era you reference, but regardless, your "confession" does appear somewhat shocking... even if only by more modern standards.
And as it was a confession, by your own hand, I'd venture to say that any shame required no advertisement from me.

On the subject of speeding... seeing as you are keen to divert the topic... yes, I confess I have been known to mistakenly and unintentionally go over... even to the stage where I had 6 points on my licence (2 x 3points, each for SP30's, within 3 years of each other).  Never knowingly.  Never Deliberate.  But yes... shameful nonetheless.  (Fortunately, it appears at least, that I have learned from said mistakes, having had a clean licence since the turn of the millennium).  

There... we are equal now.  Both imperfect.  Both Shameful... except that I don't have the opportunity to defend my shame with "Everybody did it back then", so I guess that makes you the winner.  Well done you.

Yes, I'm sure you have never gone over the limit intentionally or knowingly. 

And it wasn't a diversion at all, it was/is highly relevant.

if you had two speeding fines, I highly doubt you got caught the only two times you were speeding.

Presumably you never took a call when driving either. 

And you've never parked in a dangerous place or been distracted whilst driving.

Or in any way put other people at risk unintentionally.

Because if any of those were true you'd just be a hypocrite. 

And you clearly don't understand the concept of shame.

Shame is about the person and it's one of the worst human emotions people can deal with.

I don't feel shame, because that would be about me now.

I feel like I was stupid and ill-informed, but I don't feel shame.

Context and history are important factors and should not be dismissed lightly.

George Washington fought for abolition yet had his own slaves.

Nelson Mandela championed peace initiatives even though he was the perpetrator of violence when leading the ANC.

And I saw coppers getting wasted and driving and shrugged my shoulders and thought, 'well that seems ok'

I doubt I'll ever appear on a bank note or get a Nobel Prize, but I can live with that.
 

[bigbadbob]

1 hour ago, Xlor said:

Stopped reading after 'legend'. 

At least someone's happy

[Finch]

Time for a clear out. Mel means well but it hasn't worked. Time for a change. Take a cue from the Red Dogs..

[Bob The Badger]

10 hours ago, John_The_Waff said:

Alfie, I mean Keogh, should have been leading by example. The fact that he wasn't telling all of the youngsters to get home at 8pm just speaks volumes about the man. Yes, in 98% of jobs you would probably turn around and tell your self righteous colleague to sod off if they told you to head home early, but well paid professional sportsmen should live a squeaky clean lifestyle - not only to ensure optimum performance, but to set a good example. 

 

These are professional athletes and role models to thousands of young children. What message does it send out? I'm appalled by the whole affair. 

 

I've sat and watched this forum for many years, but this whole situation pushed me over the edge and I felt compelled to post.

 

Ultimately, forget football and the whole 'I'll support my team through thick and thin' mentality, innocent people could have been killed that night because of two naive, arrogant and reckless 'professional' footballers. 

 

I agree that we should dismiss the argument of supporting our team. That's neither here nor there.
 

However, you could lay your accusations at the door of anybody who's driven at 80 mile an hour down the M1 - innocent people could have been killed. 

Or, anybody who's carried on driving when they were struggling to stay awake - innocent people could have been killed  

Or, even anybody who took a phone call when driving. You're 4x more likely to have an accident even if you're on a hands free device - innocent people could have been killed  

I can remember way back when being on a management call for a billion pound sales organization when the regional manager suggested bringing in drug testing for the sales reps - it was during the ecstasy boom.  

My manager almost wet himself laughing. When he got asked why he thought it was funny he responded with something like 'you'll have no sales force left'

The point I'm trying to make is that people, especially young people, do stupid things.

I have no clue if arrogance played a part, but I doubt it. I think they just acted like ass clowns as most of us have done, and still do occasionally.

Am I condoning it?

No.

Am I saying we should realize that there but the grace of God go I? And that most of us have stupid poo that we got away with and shouldn't be so eager to play the moral high ground card?

Absolutely. 

 

[Roboram]

13 hours ago, John_The_Waff said:

Keogh was in a position of responsibility! Also, he now can't play for the rest of the season.

The others are able to play, but have let all involved with the club down. Fine them the maximum amount possible and then transfer list them in January. 

That’s ok, but sell them?

who on earth would offer money for them after this?

[bigbadbob]

9 hours ago, Finch said:

Time for a clear out. Mel means well but it hasn't worked. Time for a change. Take a cue from the Red Dogs..

Are you saying mel needs to go?

[John_The_Waff]

5 hours ago, Bob The Badger said:

I agree that we should dismiss the argument of supporting our team. That's neither here nor there.
 

However, you could lay your accusations at the door of anybody who's driven at 80 mile an hour down the M1 - innocent people could have been killed. 

Or, anybody who's carried on driving when they were struggling to stay awake - innocent people could have been killed  

Or, even anybody who took a phone call when driving. You're 4x more likely to have an accident even if you're on a hands free device - innocent people could have been killed  

I can remember way back when being on a management call for a billion pound sales organization when the regional manager suggested bringing in drug testing for the sales reps - it was during the ecstasy boom.  

My manager almost wet himself laughing. When he got asked why he thought it was funny he responded with something like 'you'll have no sales force left'

The point I'm trying to make is that people, especially young people, do stupid things.

I have no clue if arrogance played a part, but I doubt it. I think they just acted like ass clowns as most of us have done, and still do occasionally.

Am I condoning it?

No.

Am I saying we should realize that there but the grace of God go I? And that most of us have stupid poo that we got away with and shouldn't be so eager to play the moral high ground card?

Absolutely. 

 

And I would! The scenarios you present should all be frowned upon by any empathetic human being. I also don't see those scenarios as like for like. Their state of mind was altered due to the intake of alcohol. They were not of sound mind or able to respond as rapidly.

Then they should have been guided by the elders within the party. At what point do you draw the line? 23 years and 4 days? 26 years? 30 years? Yes we've all done stupid things and endangered ourselves, but I have never altered my state of mind and put the lives of others at risk. 

[DCFC Ram]

and it would seem that at least one car crossed the busy A6 and the pavement on the opposite side. Thankfully - and luckily - there was no collision with a vehicle or pedestrian driving along the A6 or walking on the pavement. There quite easily could have been one or both of these situations.

Looking at the state of the lampost and the photo of the car, it's hard to see how anyone who had been in a vehicle or walking and had been broadsided by the car would have survived.

For this the driver is very, very fortunate.

[RamNut]

There was a boy in my year at school who went out drinking and piled the car into a lampost on Burley hill

the lampost collapsed and killed the innocent girl passenger sitting in the back.

RIP Elizabeth Glansford

[RamNut]

she was a lovely girl by the way. Very quiet. Very pretty. I can remember sitting in class and realising that the funeral cortege was likely to be going right past the school. And sure enough it did. Just as we were sat there.

 

[Brammie Steve]

19 hours ago, Ambitious said:

Keogh has been consistently our best player for the past decade, perhaps even longer, so I will always remember him fondly. The problem is, as I've alluded to in another post, his importance to this team is substantial and that this season will tarnish his reputation without him even playing. 

If the pictures of his knees doing the rounds are true, he is finished as a footballer and possibly a man that can get about without a wheelchair or at least crouches. 

I used to work in Osmaston road opposite Shaftesbury Street and regularly saw Cloughie in his silver fox Merc.

My job meant I was often in the BBG area. I often saw a young man hobbling on crutches who seemed old before his time. Roy MacFarland never fully recovered and I realised that often the term 'out through injury' doesn't tell half the story.

No wonder Dave Mackay did his one handed Billy Bremner lift!

A long and winding road unfortunately!

[61GT]

17 hours ago, Millenniumram said:

He may play football again, but he won’t play for us again.

I’m still undecided whether I feel Keogh should play for us again if/when he regains his fitness.

I am however certain that he should never captain us again.

[John_The_Waff]

With 300+ games for Derby and him nearing retirement, the club would probably have employed him as an ambassador. That's gone down the toilet now.