The Politics Thread 2019

[Norman]

4 minutes ago, Highgate said:

'You' as in your country,  UK.   Sorry, if that was dreadfully confusing.  ?

Vote whatever way you please, as I'm sure you did.

But you suggested that the UK won't be able to negotiate with the EU in future (if it remained) merely because it wasn't able to alter previous treaties it had agreed to in the past. That's plainly false in my opinion and that's what I pointed out to you, not that you shouldn't use your own vote as you see fit (no clue how you got that idea into your head). 

I knew what you meant, and my answer does not change. I was allowed my first say on this country in the EU since I was born, and I chose to use it. I don't believe we will have another chance. We are getting more and more embroiled in a tangling of webs that will end with us taking the Euro.

Look how hard it is to leave now, never mind if we were given the chance in 30 years. 

So no, not confusing. I will vote how I wish, and the EU have shown how open they are to negotiations. So it's not false. 

The only false claim is yours that we would have another opportunity to leave. 

There is no evidence that would ever happen. Not in my lifetime.

 

[Highgate]

Just now, Norman said:

I knew what you meant, and my answer does not change. I was allowed my first say on this country in the EU since I was born, and I chose to use it. I don't believe we will have another chance. We are getting more and more embroiled in a tangling of webs that will end with us taking the Euro.

Look how hard it is to leave now, never mind if we were given the chance in 30 years. 

So no, not confusing. I will vote how I wish, and the EU have shown how open they are to negotiations. So it's not false. 

The only false claim is yours that we would have another opportunity to leave. 

There is no evidence that would ever happen. Not in my lifetime.

If the EU were not to  change in any serious way from what it is now, if somehow you knew that to be the case. would you have voted Leave or Remain?  Just a hypothetical question.  I'm assuming you voted Leave in the the referendum.

The reason why it's so hard to Leave now, is that the UK parliament couldn't agree on any single version of Brexit precisely because the referendum was so vague in the first place. And because in the run up to the referendum, everyone seemingly forgot that the UK would have a land border with the EU which was already subject to an international agreement incompatible with certain versions of Brexit.  It's not difficult to leave because of intransigence on the EU's part if that's what you were suggesting.

There is no doubt you could negotiate with the EU on any future agreement, as any country could, and the UK has done repeatedly in the past, That's not even debatable.

If you don't believe you'd ever get another referendum even if there was a clear demand for it from the public (remember this is after further changes to the EU that the UK does not like) then that's your opinion, I disagree for reasons already stated.

 

 

[bigbadbob]

9 hours ago, McRamFan said:

Sarcasm is an ironic or satirical remark tempered by humor, and is identifiable by the inflection of the voice, further more you could say sarcasm only works if it, at least, has a degree of intelligence behind it, a degree of subtleness.  That did not.

Perhaps you need a better dictionary.

I got it and I'm thick

[maxjam]

Nothing to do with anything other than a bunch of interesting stats on our politicians;

https://news.sky.com/story/commons-people-how-diverse-are-mps-and-do-they-reflect-the-uk-11829868

 

[G STAR RAM]

21 minutes ago, bigbadbob said:

I got it and I'm thick

You must use the same dictionary as me.

Have you still got the one from junior school?

[Angry Ram]

1 hour ago, Highgate said:

The same way you got this one, when a political party thinks there are lot of votes in a referendum, it will offer a referendum.  Even if they are against themselves.  That's democracy for you in every country it seems.  Party comes first !   It's true the UK has been incredibly reticent in offering it's citizens but if there are enough votes there, then the parties will follow. 

Incidentally are you saying that you'd be happy to stay in the EU as it is now, if you were sure it wouldn't change for the worse (as you saw it).  But you voted to leave now because you thought you'd never get another chance and you feared what the EU may become?

It's not difficult to stay at all.  It's remarkably simple.  It would have been business as usual.

Leave was a gallimaufry of options then!   More to your taste?

1. And just how long do we wait for those self serving muppets to let us have another say? After this debacle, I would say never.

2. Not happy, no. It’s a job for the boys. Correct I am more concerned about where it goes next but it’s also poo (see I used a big word there). Just to assist the less educated that means excrement. If I knew it was not going to change.. Silly question really as everything changes.. However, I will play your game.. Simple answer, not sure. I would have probably voted to leave still but it would have been very close.

3. No it’s not difficult to stay. Simple as you say.. But life is not simple, does the easy option always mean the right option?

4. ‘Gallimaufry’ - Show off. You ain’t impressing me sonny..?

 

[bigbadbob]

3 hours ago, ariotofmyown said:

Yeah no legal obligation. Except for that little thing call DEMMOCRATRCY.

You may need to explain this to Mcramsfan before he has a go at you for your spelling

[1967Ram]

Conservatives have taken to falsifying video evidence on their own Twitter page:

 

[1967Ram]

Here's the actual footage, no pause at all from Keir Starmer (9.39):

 

[bigbadbob]

2 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Rivercroft Hotel on 31st October. Can send you the invoice if you want.

Failing that, happy to send you some pics if you like?

It did seem quite a sleepy place full of old people...maybe it's you losing your mind? Hope not.

Put some pics up anyway. It's be nice to see a few holiday snaps to relieve the tedium

[maxjam]

17 minutes ago, Angry Ram said:

4. ‘Gallimaufry’ - Show off. You ain’t impressing me sonny..?

 

[ariotofmyown]

13 minutes ago, 1967Ram said:

Here's the actual footage, no pause at all from Keir Starmer (9.39):

 

There are no depths to which Johnson and his cronies will stoop too. Probably why any decent Tories have abandoned ship. 

[Angry Ram]

2 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Rivercroft Hotel on 31st October. Can send you the invoice if you want.

Failing that, happy to send you some pics if you like?

It did seem quite a sleepy place full of old people...maybe it's you losing your mind? Hope not.

He will be calling you out.. Can just see it now, nobody called GStar Ram stayed there on the 31st.. You’re a fraud. 

[G STAR RAM]

22 minutes ago, bigbadbob said:

Put some pics up anyway. It's be nice to see a few holiday snaps to relieve the tedium

Perhaps should become a theme for here, uk holiday snaps, doubt anyone will be going abroad after Brexit with us running out of fuel.

[G STAR RAM]

12 minutes ago, Angry Ram said:

He will be calling you out.. Can just see it now, nobody called GStar Ram stayed there on the 31st.. You’re a fraud. 

Was actually wearing my G Star Raw hat that day so hopefully the owners were thick Brexiteers who cant read properly.

[Angry Ram]

4 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Was actually wearing my G Star Raw hat that day so hopefully the owners were thick Brexiteers who cant read properly.

Good point. Did you leave okay or was there a deal to remain another day?

[G STAR RAM]

Just now, Angry Ram said:

Good point. Did you leave okay or was their a deal to remain another day?

Yeah there was something but I had no idea what I was signing up for.

[i-Ram]

GStar was definitely there.  Trip advisor post on morning of 1st November has this post:

Very disappointing breakfast. Continental options to the fore.  Waffles, my arse!  Didn’t have a good old British sausage in the fridge. I expressed my dissatisfaction with the waiter, who clearly only spoke limited English and was intimidating. He kept shouting in my face “Leave means leave”.

[G STAR RAM]

4 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

GStar was definitely there.  Trip advisor post on morning of 1st November has this post:

Very disappointing breakfast. Continental options to the fore.  Waffles, my arse!  Didn’t have a good old British sausage in the fridge. I expressed my dissatisfaction with the waiter, who clearly only spoke limited English and was intimidating. He kept shouting in my face “Leave means leave”.

The chlorinated chicken curry I would highly recommend though. 

[Highgate]

Just now, Angry Ram said:

1. And just how long do we wait for those self serving muppets to let us have another say? After this debacle, I would say never.

2. Not happy, no. It’s a job for the boys. Correct I am more concerned about where it goes next but it’s also poo (see I used a big word there). Just to assist the less educated that means excrement. If I knew it was not going to change.. Silly question really as everything changes.. However, I will play your game.. Simple answer, not sure. I would have probably voted to leave still but it would have been very close.

3. No it’s not difficult to stay. Simple as you say.. But life is not simple, does the easy option always mean the right option?

4. ‘Gallimaufry’ - Show off. You ain’t impressing me sonny..?

 

1.  That's a moot point, had Remain won there would have been no debacle, just business as usual. So the politicians would have been in the dark about the mess that follows a Brexit vote.  Therefore no increased fear of offering another referendum in the future had the general public wanted it.

2.  The question helps elucidate the motivations behind your vote to leave in the original referendum.  If you would have voted leave, even if the current EU were to continue as is for the foreseeable future, then you aren't displaying the sort of irrational behaviour that I was attempting to highlight.

3.  The point was that the Leave and Remain options were never equivalent in their ambiguity, as some have suggested.  As you say, Remaining is perfectly simple, who can say that about the Leave option? So you seem to agree with the point I was making.  Which is the right and wrong option is a matter of opinion, and obviously the simplicity of an option does not mean that it's necessarily the right one to take, but who has. or would. suggest anything of the sort?

4.  Tough crowd ?