G STAR RAM Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 19 minutes ago, GboroRam said: Not saying you were making any such comment, but a common argument for Brexit is we need to stop the overburdening of services such as the health service. Immigration is seen as the cause of damage to the health service and health tourism is touted as a problem that needs attacking. That the NHS is buckling under pressure from the increase in demand from immigrants. Most data does not back that up and Stive's personal experience meets with the consensus - that demand on the NHS is primarily driven by an aging population. In the sense that the average age is going up. we need to fund the NHS more than if it was static. Not only is population growing, it's aging as well. It may not be what your comment was, but it's a comment that is heard often: the NHS needs saving and immigration is the antithesis of that. Why do people struggle to draw a distinction between something being the 'cause of' or a 'contributory factor'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRamFan Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Just now, SchtivePesley said: Exactly - at no point did I suggest that G Star had made that comment, but he immediately sprang to his own defence. Against an accusation that hadn't been made. But I'm the one that is obsessed... But Gstar said that Derby city center was a wash with unemployed eastern europeans.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 21 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: Yep just about what I expected. Throw race into a debate for no reason at all and then back out when called out on it. Well done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, McRamFan said: But Gstar said that Derby city center was a wash with unemployed eastern europeans.... Yep and after 2 visits last week it's a comment I stand by. Add Burton to that list too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRamFan Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 6 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: Yep and after 2 visits last week it's a comment I stand by. Add Burton to that list too. Was there yesterday, Derby, nope it wasn't. Must only happen when you are there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 27 minutes ago, GboroRam said: Not saying you were making any such comment, but a common argument for Brexit is we need to stop the overburdening of services such as the health service. Immigration is seen as the cause of damage to the health service and health tourism is touted as a problem that needs attacking. That the NHS is buckling under pressure from the increase in demand from immigrants. Most data does not back that up and Stive's personal experience meets with the consensus - that demand on the NHS is primarily driven by an aging population. In the sense that the average age is going up. we need to fund the NHS more than if it was static. Not only is population growing, it's aging as well. It may not be what your comment was, but it's a comment that is heard often: the NHS needs saving and immigration is the antithesis of that. I thought immigration was seem as a benefit problem rather than a NHS one? It would also be interesting to see if immigrants contribute more in tax and NI than they receive in benefits, and how these compare with the rest of the UK population. 6 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: Exactly - at no point did I suggest that G Star had made that comment, but he immediately sprang to his own defence. Against an accusation that hadn't been made. But I'm the one that is obsessed... It came across as you accusing him to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 1 minute ago, McRamFan said: Was there yesterday, Derby, nope it wasn't. Must only happen when you are there... Yeah must do. Or maybe important people like you dont go where us mere mortals do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 16 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: Yep and after 2 visits last week it's a comment I stand by. Add Burton to that list too. Just interested then - if you stand by the comment and both towns are "awash" with eastern european unemployed immigrants, can you explain precisely how you ascertain their nationality? I mean, I assume that you don't stop and speak to them all? How could you have the time if there are so many? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 1 minute ago, SchtivePesley said: Just interested then - if you stand by the comment and both towns are "awash" with eastern european unemployed immigrants, can you explain precisely how you ascertain their nationality? I mean, I assume that you don't stop and speak to them all? How could you have the time if there are so many? The same way that you ascertained that 90% of the people in the hospital were over 70... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 10 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: Just interested then - if you stand by the comment and both towns are "awash" with eastern european unemployed immigrants, can you explain precisely how you ascertain their nationality? I mean, I assume that you don't stop and speak to them all? How could you have the time if there are so many? FWIW I live near Burton and visit regularly, the immigrant population is significant. The town I live in also has a significant and growing immigrant population, mostly eastern european. You only have to stand outside the school gates and listen to people walking by - preferably one your kids are at ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, maxjam said: FWIW I live near Burton and visit regularly, the immigrant population is significant. The town I live in also has a significant and growing immigrant population, mostly eastern european. You only have to stand outside the school gates and listen to people walking by - preferably one your kids are at ? That's only on the days me and you are there though. Will await confirmation from McRamfan before deciding whether you are telling the truth or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 31 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: The same way that you ascertained that 90% of the people in the hospital were over 70... I did that by looking at them. Their age was obvious. I couldn't tell you any of their nationalities though. Not only would it have been impossible, but it would also have been of no consequence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 9 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: I did that by looking at them. Their age was obvious. I couldn't tell you any of their nationalities though. Not only would it have been impossible, but it would also have been of no consequence Are you pretending that 'Eastern Europeans' don't have different facial features to your 'typical Brit'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 14 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said: Are you pretending that 'Eastern Europeans' don't have different facial features to your 'typical Brit'? What on earth does a "typical Brit" look like?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 24 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: What on earth does a "typical Brit" look like?! Not Eastern European Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Just found out some interesting facts. What are the differences between May's deal and Boris' deal? The following 3 clauses have been removed from the original May deal: The UK and the EU commit themselves to implementing the principles of good governance in the area of taxation, including global standards on transparency and exchange of information, fair taxation and OECD standards against Base Erosion and Profit Shifting (BEPS). The UK will continue to apply its domestic law which transposes EU Directives on the exchange of information on taxation (Directive 2011/16), anti-tax avoidance rules (Directive 2016/1164), and country-by-country-reporting by credit institutions and investment firms (Directive 2013/36). The UK reaffirms its commitment to curb harmful tax measures as defined in the EU Code of Conduct for business taxation. For reference, Mrs May’s original WA is on:https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/756374/14_November_Draft_Agreement_on_the_Withdrawal_of_the_United_Kingdom_of_Great_Britain_and_Northern_Ireland_from_the_European_Union.pdf If you wish to compare it yourself, the NEW Withdrawal Agreement is onhttps://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/840655/Agreement_on_the_withdrawal_of_the_United_Kingdom_of_Great_Britain_and_Northern_Ireland_from_the_European_Union_and_the_European_Atomic_Energy_Community.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 43 minutes ago, GboroRam said: Just found out some interesting facts. What are the differences between May's deal and Boris' deal? The following 3 clauses have been removed from the original May deal: The UK and the EU commit themselves to implementing the principles of good governance in the area of taxation, including global standards on transparency and exchange of information, fair taxation and OECD standards against Base Erosion and Profit Shifting (BEPS). The UK will continue to apply its domestic law which transposes EU Directives on the exchange of information on taxation (Directive 2011/16), anti-tax avoidance rules (Directive 2016/1164), and country-by-country-reporting by credit institutions and investment firms (Directive 2013/36). The UK reaffirms its commitment to curb harmful tax measures as defined in the EU Code of Conduct for business taxation. For reference, Mrs May’s original WA is on:https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/756374/14_November_Draft_Agreement_on_the_Withdrawal_of_the_United_Kingdom_of_Great_Britain_and_Northern_Ireland_from_the_European_Union.pdf If you wish to compare it yourself, the NEW Withdrawal Agreement is onhttps://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/840655/Agreement_on_the_withdrawal_of_the_United_Kingdom_of_Great_Britain_and_Northern_Ireland_from_the_European_Union_and_the_European_Atomic_Energy_Community.pdf be interesting to see how much effort the opposition parties put into detailed analysis such as this in the forthcoming election campaign. You suspect Corbyn and Labour not so much, cos he'll be banging on about his public ownership utopia and Green New Deal. But you suspect Boris could be quite weak if someone really went to town on this - there might be all sorts of angles......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 2 hours ago, SchtivePesley said: I did that by looking at them. Their age was obvious. I couldn't tell you any of their nationalities though. Not only would it have been impossible, but it would also have been of no consequence Yet you decided that their skin colour was worth mentioning... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbadbob Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 11 minutes ago, Norman said: I have a brilliant way of identifying Eastern European women. A thigh gap. Maybe after brexit we could still let the women in but keep the blokes out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 11 hours ago, bcnram said: I agree with you views on football. I think you worry too much about possible outcomes should the tories be re-elected. My worry is that Corbyn and his union backed politburo gain power and take the country into financial ruin again. ? Ahem.......who's worrying too much about possible outcomes?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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