Weak Wingers

[jimbo jones]

When a decent cross does get whipped in, there was a couple at least against Norwich, there’s no sod in the box looking likely to get on the end of it anyway. Marriott looks more likely than most. I do like his movement in the box, his near post run made the space for Bryson to attack and score, but he obviously needs to be on the pitch more.

josefzoon is our only genuine winger too, Bennett, Lawrence, waghorn and even Wilson would all rather be playing through the middle, yet josefzoon couldn’t get on the bench for the last 2. I don’t see ya whipping many crosses in for headed goals at all this season.

[rammieib]

10 hours ago, sage said:

I would agree playing 433 I don't expect to see the likes of Hinton again but Russell, Ward and Dawkins were effective and we have spent a lot of money failing to replace them.

Again Tommy Smith, Tudgay and Bisgaard played that role pretty well albeit in different ways. 

In ten years time you'll be referring to Jozefzoon, Wilson and Lawrence the same way you refer to Dawkins, Ward and Russell.

I personally shudder at the thought of Ward and Dawkins. Russell decent with little end product and Tommy Smith decent but the others are bang average.

As the years go by we look at players in different ways and if they scored say 1 in 10, we will remember the one and go "he was a great player wasn't he?"

 

[Seaside Ram]

I kinda enjoyed a goal v the scum by a certain scotsman who left us in january , anyone care to put it up for us to enjoy again ? I'm rubbish at tech !!!

[Gone]

Weak wingers, time for a change in formation then? I’d love to see 2 up front 

[Seaside Ram]

Leaving out our star player so far this season Johnson ? 

[Err ram io]

44 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

Weak wingers, time for a change in formation then? I’d love to see 2 up front 

Yes bringing back Curtis allows us to play with two marauding wing backs - so in the modern game is it wing backs over wingers ?

I agree the absence of Johnson raises an eyebrow. Do we swop Bryse for BJ...and .put Bryson in the Wilson role ? 

It's a tricky one. 

361 formation is calling ?

Jack/Martyn get 45 each ??

[Ellafella]

13 hours ago, reveldevil said:

Like Dawkins do you mean, or are you looking for a old fashioned winger who beats his man and crosses?

The two you pick out as sub quality are the only two I think are capable of beating a man on the outside and whipping in a cross, although I couldn't see that being effective in our current set up, and as you say the other two seem as likely to frustrate than enthrall.

If we are to persist with the narrow forwards, I'd like to see Waghorn on the right and Marriott through the middle.

I'd probably pick Wilson at this moment on the left, I'm in the @Alpha camp when it comes to TL, I just don't rate what he brings to overall performance measured against his individual contribution.

I do like the look of Marriott though, he can play with his back to goal well enough for me, and looks a proper goal snaffler to boot.

 

So beautifully, stylishly and succinctly put. I’m in the @Alpha camp too. I just think TL will always put his head down, beat a man, then lose the ball against the back of an opposition player’s heel. 

[Sasha]

5 hours ago, cosmic said:

Don’t write off Josefzoon yet. We saw enough in his first few appearances that shows he can take on a player, with pace, and deliver an end product. 

Like a few of our newbies, I think he needs a decent run in the team. 15 min cameos aren’t enough. 

Agreed. Yet absent from bench recently. 

[Sexydadbod]

2 hours ago, TexasRam said:

Weak wingers, time for a change in formation then? I’d love to see 2 up front 

Something like that could work at the moment because the wingers have been inconsistent.  I wouldn’t play Bryson in that role though. Maybe something like this would make us more secure

                        Carson 

             Keogh   Davies     Tomori

Bogle                 Huddlestone        Forsyth

                 Mount           Johnson

                               Wilson

                             Striker(your preference)

In that formation for more creativity, you could put Holmes in for Johnson for more speed to transition from midfield to attack, much like England do when playing that formation when playing Lingard or Oxlade-Chamberlain(before his injury) in that position. The Beauty of that formation is that it allows you to play two attack minded players in the two advanced midfield roles, knowing that there are three centre backs behind to cover up any mistakes.

The three centre backs would work well. Many people have agreed that Tomori’s reading of the game and poor arial ability has cost us on occasions. Davies would make us more secure in there  and Tomori’s speed would cover up for Keogh and Davies’ lack of mobility due to their age.

[Curtains]

I’m in the Tom Lawrence camp. 

Who is Alpha lol. 

[McRainy]

Sprinting down to the corner flag to 'whip a cross in' for someone to 'get on the end of'. Does anyone really play like that anymore? Genuine question, I don't know. 

Personally I'd rather watch creative, incisive passing and movement, pulling defences apart, than wide balls into the box and headers. Can you have both? Again, I don't know. 

My sense is that we have the right kind of players for the football I like to watch, and presumably, the football Frank is trying to create. I expect it will gel, and then we'll see stuff like the home leg against Brighton.

The signs are already good imo, and I think our current crop are just as talented. 

Keep reading the thread title as Fish Fingers btw. 

[RamNut]

Theres no finer sight in football than a really good winger doing his stuff.

the pass and move can be great if the midfielders and full backs are going forwards. 

V bolton we kept going backwards.

[Curtains]

Stanley Matthews 

He was a winger. 

Lets go back to them days lol. 

[Millenniumram]

Think it’s more a case of we’re playing the wrong wingers rather than them all being useless, and some of the players we persist as playing wide aren’t actually widemen. I’d say Bennett for example is a bench player at best and shouldn’t be starting, but certainly not on the wing. He doesn’t have the passing and movement to play there, his strengths are quite literally his strength, and he’d be better suited up front. Lawrence also, whilst more of a winger, isn’t quite right there either I wouldn’t say, and should be competing with mount rather than starting wide.

Imo our only two wingers suited to playing in this formation naturally are Wilson and josefzoon. Imo those two are both quality players, arguably imo the best pairing we’ve had in a while actually and I think both could play in the prem. But we’ve yet to play them together. And we don’t have any real competition for them either, nor do I really know where Holmes could fit in, he’s always struck me as a weird purchase and he seems to be more of an inside player perhaps better suited to a 442 who can join in with midfield whilst playing wide.

So no, I actually think we have better wingers than we have had previously, but we’ve gotta get them out there and replace some of our ‘fake’ wingers with some proper ones to compete imo. We’re also never going to see the best out of wingers if our striker isn’t linking up well enough with them, which is the bigger issue at the minute.

[Sith Happens]

Well this thread wasnt what i thought it was. I thought there was a typo in the title and it was a moan about some of our fans. Thought it was actually supposed to be Weak Whingers.

[Ellafella]

45 minutes ago, Lambchop said:

Sprinting down to the corner flag to 'whip a cross in' for someone to 'get on the end of'. Does anyone really play like that anymore? Genuine question, I don't know. 

Personally I'd rather watch creative, incisive passing and movement, pulling defences apart, than wide balls into the box and headers. Can you have both? Again, I don't know. 

My sense is that we have the right kind of players for the football I like to watch, and presumably, the football Frank is trying to create. I expect it will gel, and then we'll see stuff like the home leg against Brighton.

The signs are already good imo, and I think our current crop are just as talented. 

Keep reading the thread title as Fish Fingers btw. 

If it works? Or Fashion. The point Surely is to get behind defences...A winger beating his full-back is surely one of the simplest and most efficient ways to get down the entry of a side...

[Gone]

3 hours ago, Err ram io said:

Yes bringing back Curtis allows us to play with two marauding wing backs - so in the modern game is it wing backs over wingers ?

I agree the absence of Johnson raises an eyebrow. Do we swop Bryse for BJ...and .put Bryson in the Wilson role ? 

It's a tricky one. 

361 formation is calling ?

Jack/Martyn get 45 each ??

BJ for Bryson was the difficult decision. Do you need a DM when playing 3 CBS ??? Not sure.

its all about attack for me, win 6-5 rather than win 1-0 ?‍♂️

[RamNut]

Wingers take people on. They don't go backwards.

the best attacking midfielders can go past players too. Gemmill was great at dropping a shoulder and bursting forward. But then again he also started as a winger.

i think we lack a bit of that. Someone who actually wants to try and go past people. Wilson maybe, but as @sage saidhe does give the ball away. When he does its often when he tries to play flicks and lay offs. Now that tackling is illegal, wingers should be having a field day.

 

[jono]

I don’t agree when it comes to talking about Jozefzoon. He is for me a text book winger and definitely an upgrade on what we have had in the past. Fast, good control, beats a man can hug a touch line or cut in and he’s not afraid to shoot. 

The others . yeah, good argument and worth mulling around. Bennett, strong, quick and direct but maybe missing tricky feet and a consistent good shot. Lawrence .. should be perfect but but gets it caught under his feet too often. Then we look at our wing backs .. Bogle ? Revelation - a huge improvement in terms of attacking ability in wide areas. .. Max Lowe should be a winger in any case. 

Ince was pretty damn good, JR knew his stuff. The other thing is, when is a winger a winger, when is he a wide forward 433 442 352. 

[jono]

The great wingers aren’t one dimensional .. they know when to hug the line, beat their man and cross .. or having beaten their man carry on inside and go for goal while the CB’s are otherwise occupied looking after the CF/AM