Don't change the system - change the players

[therealhantsram]

Thought this was worth re-posting from Twitter. Do watch the video.

Seems very similar to the challenges Lampard has at Derby.  Neville also effectively backs up Darren Bent's comments on Clement... as soon as you back away from your philosophy as a manager your days are numbered.

 

 

[RoyMac5]

What if your philosophy doesn't work?

[Day]

Just now, RoyMac5 said:

What if your philosophy doesn't work?

You just tell people you posted that months ago and changed your mind since. Works for us lot on here ?

[jimbobram]

I was talking to my friend before this saying that there's nothing worse than a manager who is too stubborn to change tactics when things aren't working. G Nev said the complete opposite. Although I think both G Nev and I have the same win record so I still have faith in my beliefs.

[desirelines]

I thought Neville argued his case rather well and I agree with him. With regards to Lampard, there's no evidence to suggest that his 'style of play' can't work in this league, it just requires the right personnel. I'd suggest that Lampard needs a season to learn the ropes, instil his methods, and next season will be a more fruitful one. I'm not saying this season is a right-off, I still expect us to challenge for the playoffs, but patience is the key word here!

[RoyMac5]

I think that an inflexible manager risks alienating players who feel they can't work to an exact plan. Does Neville really think he got the sack for being flexible in his ideas or was it that the players saw he was clueless and grasping at straws? Doesn't this also imply no 'plan B'?

[Ilsonram12]

Gary Neville, great talker, not so great manager

carraghers scouse is really scouse for a scouse

[therealhantsram]

54 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

I think that an inflexible manager risks alienating players who feel they can't work to an exact plan. Does Neville really think he got the sack for being flexible in his ideas or was it that the players saw he was clueless and grasping at straws? Doesn't this also imply no 'plan B'?

I was watching the Pep documentary series (just first episode so far) last night, and one of the interesting comments he made was that 'Sometimes I lie to the players.  Sometimes I tell them I have the answer when i don't.  But I have to do that to give them the confidence to play the way I want them to'

I think this is what Neville (and Bent) were arguing.  When the manager changes the system, the players no longer believe. That's when they lose the dressing room and the chop looms.

[jimbobram]

25 minutes ago, Ilsonram12 said:

 

carraghers scouse is really scouse for a scouse

I can imagine so much spit coming out when he talks its that scouse.

 

I don't actually think he meant to spit at that girl in the car a few months back, just tried to say hello

[RoyMac5]

15 minutes ago, therealhantsram said:

I was watching the Pep documentary series (just first episode so far) last night, and one of the interesting comments he made was that 'Sometimes I lie to the players.  Sometimes I tell them I have the answer when i don't.  But I have to do that to give them the confidence to play the way I want them to'

I think this is what Neville (and Bent) were arguing.  When the manager changes the system, the players no longer believe. That's when they lose the dressing room and the chop looms.

I get both of those paragraphs I just don't think they necessarily follow. What if the manager says, well this game to deal with so and so we'll play it differently - why wouldn't the players believe? I think the players believe when it works, whatever it is?

[JoeDerby]

1 hour ago, Ilsonram12 said:

Gary Neville, great talker, not so great manager

carraghers scouse is really scouse for a scouse

based on a few games in Spain with a huge language barrier. 

 

Give the guy a chance.

 

 

[LazloW]

I’m torn.  On one hand I (think) I want to see us playing the way that I imagine Frank wants us to play.  The theory sounds good anyway.

On the other, I’ve always generally been of the view that a good manager decides how best to play based on the players he has.  

At the moment I’m refusing to fall into the trap of saying our squad can’t play the way Frank wants them to.  Apart from anything else, half the squad hasn’t even had a game yet.  Might take a bit of time to find the right combinations.  Also, only 3 league games in so a bit soon to conclude on anything (unless you are a genius like that bloke from Vegas who just knows how things are going to pan out from the start).

It would obviously help if the opposition didn’t keep trying to win.  Doesn’t half scupper our ability to get to grips with a new way of playing.  Gits. 

[cosmic]

36 minutes ago, LazloW said:

I’m torn.  On one hand I (think) I want to see us playing the way that I imagine Frank wants us to play.  The theory sounds good anyway.

On the other, I’ve always generally been of the view that a good manager decides how best to play based on the players he has.  

At the moment I’m refusing to fall into the trap of saying our squad can’t play the way Frank wants them to.  Apart from anything else, half the squad hasn’t even had a game yet.  Might take a bit of time to find the right combinations.  Also, only 3 league games in so a bit soon to conclude on anything (unless you are a genius like that bloke from Vegas who just knows how things are going to pan out from the start).

It would obviously help if the opposition didn’t keep trying to win.  Doesn’t half scupper our ability to get to grips with a new way of playing.  Gits. 

Name me a successful manager that has changed their style of play depending on what club they went to and what squad they had inherited.

Almost all of the 'greats' have an identity that brings them success. Mourinho is a good example of a successful manager who doesn't adapt to get the best out of the players he has at his disposal (i.e Pogba).

 

[t'oldu]

Our leader says we don't have systems.... just tweaks.......................

[Bris Vegas]

It all depends if the system is broken. If it isn’t, then hiring a manager with a different playing style is nonsensical and the owner or whoever does the hiring should take the blame when it fails.

We saw it with Nigel Pearson. Our system and the players we had in place, it wasn’t broken, just needed a few minor tweaks and additions. If we really wanted to change, it would have take. 3+ years to fully implement and a host of new signings.

If the system hasn’t been working, and you’re looking for a new direction with long-term success, then you bring a manager in which coincides with your vision and you have to buy the players to suit. Again this could take 3+ years.

City and Guardiola is an example of this. He had to change the team almost entirely as so few could play the way he wants.

Arsenal are wanting to change. They’ve slipped out of the top 4 and look nowhere near like challenging for the title. Emery is basically starting from scratch, therefore he needs time and new players who can play to his system. This season is too soon, but at least he can work with the youngsters and prepare for the next couple of years.

Lampard is in the same boat. He didn’t have a great starting position, and with so many players out of contract next year, he’s going to have to build a new squad of players capable of playing his system.

Mel Morris must give Lampard at least 3 years. This season is a free hit, use it to integrate the younger players into the system. 

Saying that, that’s exactly why I don’t understand why we’ve bought Waghorn. Was this signing a gamble on promotion this season? We don’t look capable with the players we have. We should focus on playing Marriott as much as possible, as well as Evans, Holmes, Bogle and Lowe.

[FindernRam]

31 minutes ago, cosmic said:

Mourinho is a good example of a successful manager who doesn't adapt to get the best out of the players he has at his disposal (i.e Pogba).

Not sure he is that successful anymore. He will go by Christmas I reckon.

[cosmic]

1 hour ago, FindernRam said:

Not sure he is that successful anymore. He will go by Christmas I reckon.

I begrudgingly used him as an example for this very reaction. I agree he’s lost it, but hope you get the point I was trying to make. 

[FindernRam]

17 hours ago, cosmic said:

I begrudgingly used him as an example for this very reaction. I agree he’s lost it, but hope you get the point I was trying to make.

I do and fully agree. In my previous life I worked on many projects as leader and whilst I had to adapt to very many different situations, mainly people related, I think looking back, my style and philosophies remained constant. Much of it was to do with the way I was brought up and some by experience. But as leader it was my job to lead the way I thought right, and take the team with me. I was middle management rather than Senior. Above me the big bosses were nearly all very fixed in the way they did things (not always bad of course).

Football Managers are by their very nature huge egotists, so their way is always right and the rest of the world is wrong. The problem is getting the team with you. I could institute procedures, training, assessment and relocation (occasionally). But my world was fairly black and white. It is so variable in football, and one bad apple or even passive resistor can screw the whole deal.

I always found managing big teams easier than small for that reason. You could "lose " bad performers. Maybe that's why Frank has a big squad.?

[europia]

12 hours ago, FindernRam said:

 

I always found managing big teams easier than small for that reason. You could "lose " bad performers. Maybe that's why Frank has a big squad.?

Or maybe no one wants to buy some of the overpaid dross we have in our bloated squad ??

[BramcoteRam84]

He needs to stay true to his principles. High energy in possession out of possession, playing out from the back where needed. Formation can be fluid.

for instance at the moment don’t think 4-3-3 is a great option as Mount and Brys too lightweight, 4-2-3-1 will get Mount (the most talented player we have right now) into areas where he will affect the game. We’re losing his impact right now.