Is the club being irresponsible?

[RamNut]

We are being very irresponsible.

 

what we're seeing now is tantamount to..........running in the corridors.

 

Outrageous.

[Ramchop]

So what if we don't meet FFP regulations. Either we go up and it doesn't matter, or we dont go up and we can't sign any players. We had all resigned ourselves to the second even though we hadn't actually breached the rules! If we keep the majority of the players we have then we don't need to sign anyone next summer for the Championship if we stay down

[BramcoteRam84]

Mel has said on numerous occasions he takes FFP very seriously and is a big supporter of it. Why would he flout FFP now, he knows a transfer embargo would be disastrous.

Vydra will probably leave before Thursday and I would also expect a few more to move out on Loan. At the moment if we sign Waghorn then we’ve increased the squad size by 3. Not great but not irresponsible.

I don’t think this is an FFP gamble as we’re not throwing money at it, I’m also happy that every player signed so far has been signed to fit a system, in 15/16 we just randomly signed players with no idea how to use them.

The current squad size however is a gamble as it will be difficult to maintain harmony with so many players not playing. But if we’d waited to ship the players out, we wouldn’t have any chance to respond and get players in, effectively writing off our season before we’ve begun.

Its a gamble worth taking, especially given the fact when the loanees return to their parent clubs and we let go our out of contract players, we’ll actually have a small squad next summer - perfect for a few quality additions provided we’ve stayed within FFP.

[Rab a dab doo]

Is this club being irresponsible ?  No so more irresponsible than it has throughout many times in its total existence 

[Carl Sagan]

42 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

Its depressing to see a perfectly reasonable question from the OP being shot down in such a condescending way. FFP & the future financial situation at the club is a valid discussion point.

Our transfer policy this summer seems to be at odds with what we thought was the likely approach this year. Rowett (apparently) left because of a reduced budget but here we are having spent over £10m (in transfer fees and loan fees) if the Waghorn deal goes through. The brief for this year seemed to be building a squad & bringing through youth - what we seem to be doing instead is going on another spending spree when the squad was already bloated to begin with. How can a stated intention to reduce the wage bill be reconciled with that? Worryingly, we've bought Marriott & Jozefzoon (£5.5m combined before add-ons?) but I don't see either of them walking into the team.

The other issue relates to the size of the squad & the potential for unused players to feel so far from the first team that it creates a bad atmosphere. At least 10-15 decent players will be missing out every week - that can't be healthy no matter how good a man manager Lampard is. And that doesn't even take into account of our young players hoping to breakthrough.

Big caveat here is that players may well be leaving between now & Thursday but we're leaving it very late. Is this a last ditch effort to spend our way to the top division? I suspect we'll know for sure if we don't see a number of departures before the weekend.

Good post though remember that the bit in bold isn't right. The Premier League voted to have no deals after Thursday so they'd be done and dusted before the beginning of their season, but that was a unilateral decision as far as world football goes. This means we can do loan deals with anyone except the Premier League through until 31st August.

For our players not wanted on big wages I'm sure the club would rather sell, but there are loan takers for most of out unwanted so it will work out by the end of the month.

While we should indeed be mindful of the future of the club, I'm sure Mel is too. And it's not my money so I'm happy for him to spend it.

[BobbyD]

I think this is a very sensible question indeed .

On the one hand the owner has clearly said that there will be no nett investment in the club . That there will be no ins before outs  is the message I picked up. That the wages bill has to be significantly trimmed. 

And yet , on the other, we are seeing potentially very significant investment in new players without any revenue of any note being generated to fund those purchases . 

So in my view it is perfectly reasonably to ask : what on Earth is going on ? 

Of course I agree that the club are not fools, that you would expect them to be close to what is going on and to be fully in control.  And to not risk the future of the club if it were all to go wrong . But surely it cannot be unfair to have a concern for the long term welfare of the club at heart as the OP ( and I suspect most of us) do in the absence of any concrete explanation by the club.

Although of course I fully appreciate the confidentiality the club must operate within and that it is also unfair to pre/judge before the day of judgement ( 10 aug)

But with 3 days to go it’s going to have to be a pretty astonishing rabbit that Mel will have to pull out of the hat before Friday morning and I am very much looking forward to eeeing what it is. 

New Chinese investment, anyone ? 

 

[Duracell]

35 minutes ago, Carl Sagan said:

Good post though remember that the bit in bold isn't right. The Premier League voted to have no deals after Thursday so they'd be done and dusted before the beginning of their season, but that was a unilateral decision as far as world football goes. This means we can do loan deals with anyone except the Premier League through until 31st August.

For our players not wanted on big wages I'm sure the club would rather sell, but there are loan takers for most of out unwanted so it will work out by the end of the month.

While we should indeed be mindful of the future of the club, I'm sure Mel is too. And it's not my money so I'm happy for him to spend it.

We can also sell to clubs outside of England up until the end of their window.

I remember us selling Tito Villa in February due to the timing of the Mexican window.

[EnigmaRam]

Personally I don’t believe there were any issues with cash or FFP and never have done. 

My take on it was that we were saying no large investment (which we haven’t really) as we’ve been robbed blind in previous windows. 

If Vydra has gone you can bet marriot, Jozefzoon and Waghorn etc would have been bigger transfer fees.

think we’ve been shrewd this year for once and Vydra being sold will put us in profit, AGAIN for a transfer window.

i do agree that the squad needs significantly reducing but I imagine the players agents that are out the picture will be touting their players to anyone that will listen. Lots out of contract next year who need to play for there next 3-4 year contracts. 

Over to the agents now!

[europia]

2 hours ago, TheHomunculusLives said:

I'm as delighted as most other fans about the positive vibes around Derby since Lampard joined, but I am genuinely worried by the growing size of the squad and the financial impact this must be having. Lampard seems to have been given free rein to bring his own players in without having to balance the books first by offloading others. I don't see how a Championship club can realistically retain a squad of 35 first team players, only a handful of whom are young, homegrown and on lower wages. 

How can we justify bringing in Waghorn when we already have 5 senior strikers at the club in Marriott, Martin, Jerome, Nugent and Vydra? Sure, we might want to get rid of some if we can find a taker, but until that is confirmed, surely we should show some restraint?

Totally understand your concerns. We will learn more about the financial position of the club and indeed the progress of the team, come the end of the season. 

[RamNut]

11 minutes ago, BobbyD said:

New Chinese investment, anyone ? 

Go on then

i'll have a mushroom chow mein.

[EnigmaRam]

1 minute ago, RamNut said:

Go on then

i'll have a mushroom chow mein.

House special surely? 

[Brammie Steve]

Every season we seem to get our nether garments twisted about the cost of players and their outrageous salaries.

Derby County have one of the largest fan bases in the entire league. It never sees to drop significantly during the inevitable doldrums when the club is becalmed and we wonder where the next point is going to come from.

As a friend said of the American Space Program in 1969... 'So what, it's not my money!'

He also said that Brian Clough had started to spend silly money and he waited for the bubble to burst and the Rams to return to Division two and facing financial meltdown!

Just enjoy the ride and trust Frank and the team.

The best is yet to come!

[RamNut]

10 minutes ago, EnigmaRam said:

House special surely? 

Not within FFP 

[Anon]

6 minutes ago, EnigmaRam said:

My take on it was that we were saying no large investment (which we haven’t really) as we’ve been robbed blind in previous windows. 

That's the most plausible of the theories I've been considering. The others are;

Mel repeated the no spending line ad nauseam to induce Rowett to take the Stoke job. Season ticket sales were down, we had a dreadful 2nd half of the season, and never even challenged Fulham in the play offs, so Rowett's stock was as low as it had been since joining. It was very obvious Stoke were still interested and Rowett was interested in January before the contract extension was dropped in his lap. A little push rather a blatant shove solved our problem without enhancing our already damaging reputation for being overly trigger happy.

Mel was so annoyed at the paltry fine handed out to QPR that he decided "duck the FL, I'll spend what I want and we'll see how big their balls and their wallets are if they try to come after us for FFP."

[Brammie Steve]

43 minutes ago, EnigmaRam said:

House special surely? 

As special as you like, and, don't call me Shirley!

[Ninos]

Agree with the Thread Creator but not because of money so much.

The problem which Rowett did in fairness identify was that you cant have a huge squad and expect great comraderie. Unfortunately he brought in more older players we’d never be able to budge and his outs were heavily loans. Right idea but failed in player selection and tactics.

This squad has become huge. It’s fine when we win and keep winning ... but if we lose a few on the bounce then you know that players will be chopped in and out the matchday squad and if we don’t then reverse the results everyone will be disgruntled. Lots of players won’t be playing football and will be blaming selections and the players dropped could easily lose faith too.

Squad size is truly very important to our success. Many players need moving out pronto.

[lukedcfc]

I am sure we will have at least 5 players out by deadline day. We will almost certainly be paying a large chunk of thier wages, whilst out on loan. The likelihood of no one leaving would be ridiculous. 

[IlsonDerby]

We’ve got the whole of August and January to try and get rid of some players that are surplus to requirements. 

If we do fall foul of FFP I’m fairly certain you have to show that you have a plan in place to reduce your costs? (Correct me if I’m wrong) 

 

With so many players out of contract next year are we just going to let their contracts run out if we can’t get rid of them and point to that as a proactive plan to reduce our costs when the football league come sniffing? 

 

Just a thought. 

In terms of transfers for FFP we’d probably have to put £1m for Marriott and <£1m for Flo, probably about £150k for Evans and then the loan fees of the 3 loanees as outgoings for this season whereas all guaranteed income such as Rowett compo, Ince staying up bonus, Weimann transfer and any money from future sales/loans as incomings. As long as we have 1 decent asset to sell per season we’re always able to buy players for decent fees due to the way FFP works. Hendrick > Hughes & Ince > Vydra & Weimann > (if not promoted) Lawrence? 

 

Half of our incomings are loans so not long term commitments! Try not to worry too much ? 

[davenportram]

On 06/08/2018 at 19:43, TheHomunculusLives said:

I'm as delighted as most other fans about the positive vibes around Derby since Lampard joined, but I am genuinely worried by the growing size of the squad and the financial impact this must be having. Lampard seems to have been given free rein to bring his own players in without having to balance the books first by offloading others. I don't see how a Championship club can realistically retain a squad of 35 first team players, only a handful of whom are young, homegrown and on lower wages. 

How can we justify bringing in Waghorn when we already have 5 senior strikers at the club in Marriott, Martin, Jerome, Nugent and Vydra? Sure, we might want to get rid of some if we can find a taker, but until that is confirmed, surely we should show some restraint?

Isn’t FFP averaged over a few seasons anyway? There are much cleverer people than me employed to deal with that mindfuck, just sit back and enjoy the ride 

[Brammie Steve]

The Rams have sold Matej Vydra to Premiership Burnley for an as yet undisclosed fee.

This is a responsible action as he has developed beyond our expectations and now has the chance to perform on a larger stage.

Irresponsible would have been to sell him to a no- hoper outfit at Elland road. 

He is a player of immense talent and potential.

Thanks for the memories Matej and all the best in your career!