Mac at QPR

[Anon]

49 minutes ago, ronnieronalde said:

His courting of Newcastle (which still gets swept under the carpet around here would have seen him driven out of town anywhere else)

Complete and utter rubbish. First of all it is not or should not be a shock to people that a manager might be interested in taking a job at an objectively bigger club in a higher league. Secondly, the "courting interest" nonsense is a blatant lie that I'm utterly sick and tired of seeing plastered around here without any basis in reality. You and other people who perpetuate the lie need to provide proof, not just some vague theory about subsequent poor form being caused by McClaren's supposed interest in the Newcastle job, actual quotes. Show me what McClaren said that amounts to "courting" Newcastle.

There's plenty of valid criticisms to be made of Steve McClaren as a manager without having to resort to making poo up.

[SSD]

I rate him higher than the likes of Mark Hughes, Alan Pardew.

At least Mac's won a league title.

[ViewsFromTheMiddle]

22 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

He's the only man to have failed to take England to a major tournament in the past 20 years. Yes, Capello, Eriksson, Hodgson et al ultimately 'failed' but only in the sense of not winning anything. McClaren's failure was as spectacularly bad as Graham Taylor's stint but with the damning caveat that he had much better players at his disposal than Taylor had.

There's also the small matter of his failures at Forest, Newcastle, Wolfsburg & second time at Twente. His record at Derby really does blind people to how ordinary a manager he is - he inherited a fantastic situation in & did well - doesn't make him anything other than fortunate.

As @ronnieronalde rightly says, his only successes have been in situations where it was set up for him. Twente finished 4th & in the Champions League the year before he arrived, Middlesborough had comfortably finished Premiership midtable in each of the 3 seasons before McClaren arrived in 2001 (largely off the back of substantial investment from Steve Gibson) - he then continued the trend of midtable finishes but of course added a League Cup

There's a big difference between finishing 4th in Holland and actually winning the league ahead of Ajax, PSV and Feyenoord. It was also the first and only time they have won it, so he obviously did something right.

He also took Boro to a Europoean final. Yes they were beaten badly in the final, but it was still a great achievement getting them there.

I also thought everyone knew he was given nowhere near long enough at Forest.

[ronnieronalde]

16 minutes ago, Anon said:

Complete and utter rubbish. First of all it is not or should not be a shock to people that a manager might be interested in taking a job at an objectively bigger club in a higher league. Secondly, the "courting interest" nonsense is a blatant lie that I'm utterly sick and tired of seeing plastered around here without any basis in reality. You and other people who perpetuate the lie need to provide proof, not just some vague theory about subsequent poor form being caused by McClaren's supposed interest in the Newcastle job, actual quotes. Show me what McClaren said that amounts to "courting" Newcastle.

There's plenty of valid criticisms to be made of Steve McClaren as a manager without having to resort to making poo up.

When someone calls me a liar I respond  aggressively. What kind of evidence can I give exactly? I didn't go around recording Steve's conversations or movements.

The deal was done, Simpson and his team were up in Newcastle meeting the players and John carver. All they needed to finalise was when.

Then the poo hit the fan over compensation payments.

It's not me perpetuating the myth he courted them, it's you blindly turning your eyes and your mind away from the truth.

Of course it's just a massive coincidence that Mel Morris thought the same and it's a massive coincidence Mac then rocks up at st James.

No courting here, nothing to see.

Please don't try to make me look like a trouble causing idiot.

I am back in contact with a lot of ex players and coaches who all allege it was lined up. ( I won't put confirm in case you try to take me to court)

Just like he alledgecly lined up the QPR job while Holloway was still in charge, just like he'd DEFINITELY lined up the derby job while Nigel was still in charge. (That one I'm happy to state categorically as 100%)

Classy Steve. 

Again we might have to wait a while to prove he can't handle a tough job.

Cutting the wage bill, no signings, relying on the squad he has apart from loans and kids.

Sound familiar? Let's see how he gets on. 

 

[Anon]

24 minutes ago, ronnieronalde said:

Of course it's just a massive coincidence that Mel Morris thought the same and it's a massive coincidence Mac then rocks up at st James.

Morris would have to be a complete imbecile for this to be true. Why, if you were annoyed about your manager being approached by another club, would you sack him, pay up his contract, and allow the other club to get him without having to pay a penny in compensation? It's the one move that ensures everyone gets exactly what they want, except Derby.

I am back in contact with a lot of ex players and coaches who all allege it was lined up. ( I won't put confirm in case you try to take me to court)

How convenient for you to have loads of unnameable sources that totally back up your assertions.

 

 

[ronnieronalde]

39 minutes ago, Anon said:

 

Do you really expect me to list them?

Work it out for yourself. 

The only way it would ever be proven catergoriy is if either Steve himself, Sam Rush, Ashley or Mel came out and confirmed it, they've not done it so far.

You seem to be quite defensive so perhaps close to the person involved?

If you are ask him. Those close to it know the truth. I notice you didn't question the fact he had the derby job lined up or the QPR job lined up.

Of course not Newcastle though, all of that speculation was ******** and it's just pure fluke he ended up there.

Wasn't lined up at all.

[TigerTedd]

1 hour ago, LeedsCityRam said:

He's the only man to have failed to take England to a major tournament in the past 20 years. Yes, Capello, Eriksson, Hodgson et al ultimately 'failed' but only in the sense of not winning anything. McClaren's failure was as spectacularly bad as Graham Taylor's stint but with the damning caveat that he had much better players at his disposal than Taylor had.

There's also the small matter of his failures at Forest, Newcastle, Wolfsburg & second time at Twente. His record at Derby really does blind people to how ordinary a manager he is - he inherited a fantastic situation in & did well - doesn't make him anything other than fortunate.

As @ronnieronalde rightly says, his only successes have been in situations where it was set up for him. Twente finished 4th & in the Champions League the year before he arrived, Middlesborough had comfortably finished Premiership midtable in each of the 3 seasons before McClaren arrived in 2001 (largely off the back of substantial investment from Steve Gibson) - he then continued the trend of midtable finishes but of course added a League Cup

Okay, I think what we’re all saying, and for some reason arguing about it despite all saying the same thing is:

McClaren is good at taking a good club and making it better. 

But he can’t do the same trick with a bad club. 

So if you’re club is just missing a secret ingredient to take it to the next level, like Brentford or Preston, for example, then McClaren could probably do a decent job. 

But if you’re club is in the poo, like QPR, or Forest when he went there, then McClaren is probably the worst possible choice. He won’t make you better, and he’s got more chance of making you worse. 

McClaren is definitely not useless, and not without merit, but he needs the right circumstances to thrive. 

[TigerTedd]

2 minutes ago, ronnieronalde said:

Do you really expect me to list them?

Work it out for yourself. 

The only way it would ever be proven catergoriy is if either Steve himself, Sam Rush, Ashley or Mel came out and confirmed it, they've not done it so far.

You seem to be quite defensive so perhaps close to the person involved?

If you are ask him. Those close to it know the truth. I notice you didn't question the fact he had the derby job lined up or the QPR job lined up.

Of course not Newcastle though, all of that speculation was ******** and it's just pure fluke he ended up there.

Wasn't lined up at all.

Just being devils advocate, but could it not have been the definition of a self fulfilling prophecy. ‘Everyone thinks I’m going to Newcastle, cos they’ve got a vacancy, it’s near to where I live, and I’ve always wanted to manage there. Now I find myself jobless, I might look into it.’

[ViewsFromTheMiddle]

[DavesaRam]

16 hours ago, ViewsFromTheMiddle said:

You said he only does well when everything is built for him. Where else did you mean other than Derby? 

I appreciate what Clough did with little to spend, he could spot the odd bargain but made quite a few poor signings too.

Mac took us to the next level though and brought a feel good factor back after what were for me some pretty miserable seasons.

To call him a fraud after his work at Boro and Twente simply isn't true.

A lot have managers have failed with England, is Capello a fraud too?

He does have his work cut out at QPR they're in a mess. It's pretty clear the aim for this season is to avoid relegation.

His failure with England may have been of his own doing, but he had to contend with a whole load of prima donna England players who wanted to call the shots and effectively made the manager irrelevant. So no matter what tactics and formations Steve wanted, if the players didn't want it, it didn't happen. And if Steve went ahead and imposed it, they simply didn't play for him.

There was a large Chelsea contingent in that squad, including John Terry (a big reason I never wanted him to come to Derby) and Cashley Cole, who did the same to the Chelsea manager at the time (Villas Boas?). 

In reality he was on a hiding to nothing, but his PR skills were rather lacking in all of that.

[cannable]

1 hour ago, ronnieronalde said:

Do you really expect me to list them?

Work it out for yourself. 

The only way it would ever be proven catergoriy is if either Steve himself, Sam Rush, Ashley or Mel came out and confirmed it, they've not done it so far.

You seem to be quite defensive so perhaps close to the person involved?

If you are ask him. Those close to it know the truth. I notice you didn't question the fact he had the derby job lined up or the QPR job lined up.

Of course not Newcastle though, all of that speculation was ******** and it's just pure fluke he ended up there.

Wasn't lined up at all.

Mel has confirmed that he was staying in past fan forums

[Comrade 86]

Stevie Mac is a decent manager. Churlish to suggest otherwise. For all his 'failures', his CV reads better than the vast majority of the 90 odd manager's currently plying their trade in this country. I rather like the conspiracy theory that he's intent on taking QPR down this season as revenge for Wembley. Obviously a mischievous fabrication but a fun one all the same. 

[cannable]

I think it’s pretty well established that he isn’t the manager for times of change.

Tasked with slowly moving on from ‘The Golden Generation’, drops Beckham straight off, fails.

Tasked with taking on Wolfsburg, loses Misimovic and Dzeko; tries to implement his 4-3-3 on a side that played a diamond, fails.

Tries to get a Billy side playing football at Forest, fails.

Huge influx of new players at Newcastle, fails.

Even the Mac 2 collapse was because he thought Nuge and De Sart were all we needed to go from backs to the wall scrappy 1-0s back to Mac 1. He actually had us organised and hard to beat up until January.

He’s a coach who can make tweaks.

[RoyMac5]

2 minutes ago, cannable said:

He’s a coach who can make tweaks.

Maybe so, but he's better than most current managers and won more than most too. He was great for us and that's all I care about.

[ronnieronalde]

Ok so I went for a walk and while walking I thought about what and how I had posted.

I started thinking about how upset and defensive I would have and still do get whenever anyone posts nonsense about Nigel. Especially personal stuff outside of football.

I think sometimes people forget that it's someone's father, brother, uncle, friend whatever that they are writing about and I've just done exactly the same thing which isn't fair.

I don't know Steve as a person, only ever met him twice when I was a lad and both times he was smiling, friendly and nice

 

It's out of order for me to have a go at his character like I just did and I'm sorry I did it.

I won't post about him again, if i am wrong about the Newcastle thing I'll aplogise again but if there is someone on here who knows him and who got upset about what i posted.

I'm nobody to question and my views don't matter a jot.

I've never been involved in professional football other than as a close observer and yet I'm having a go at someone who has made a very good living out of it and managed at the very highest level. It's everything I say others shouldnt do 

I spent a long time getting upset about what people wrote on a forum about a family I cared for.

I'm a bit ashamed that I just did the same thing.

Sorry.

[Ted McMinn Football Genius]

Sorry Mac but I fear the QPR board are about to give you...... 

[California Ram.]

New chairman - not Tony Fernandes who appointed him - doesn’t look good. Shame because you’d think Martin, Thorne, Pearce, Anya etc could have been emergency loans to steady the shop

[Turnstile]

11 hours ago, Ted McMinn Football Genius said:

Sorry Mac but I fear the QPR board are about to give you...... 

Don't hurry though,let them lose some more games first.

[Turnstile]

On ‎20‎/‎08‎/‎2018 at 14:09, ronnieronalde said:

When someone calls me a liar I respond  aggressively. What kind of evidence can I give exactly? I didn't go around recording Steve's conversations or movements.

The deal was done, Simpson and his team were up in Newcastle meeting the players and John carver. All they needed to finalise was when.

Then the poo hit the fan over compensation payments.

It's not me perpetuating the myth he courted them, it's you blindly turning your eyes and your mind away from the truth.

Of course it's just a massive coincidence that Mel Morris thought the same and it's a massive coincidence Mac then rocks up at st James.

No courting here, nothing to see.

Please don't try to make me look like a trouble causing idiot.

I am back in contact with a lot of ex players and coaches who all allege it was lined up. ( I won't put confirm in case you try to take me to court)

Just like he alledgecly lined up the QPR job while Holloway was still in charge, just like he'd DEFINITELY lined up the derby job while Nigel was still in charge. (That one I'm happy to state categorically as 100%)

Classy Steve. 

Again we might have to wait a while to prove he can't handle a tough job.

Cutting the wage bill, no signings, relying on the squad he has apart from loans and kids.

Sound familiar? Let's see how he gets on. 

 

QUITE RIGHT. he asked one member of staff at derby "are you coming to Newcastle with me" told someone else "it's not the money it's the size of the club" he did change his mind ,because of family pressure but it was to late .mel had heard enough.he is a much larger snake than rowett .

[Rample]

Was looking over a QPR forum to see what they were thinking, sitting bottom of the table with a -11 goal difference, and they put a lot of it down to having already having a poor squad, selling a few players without replacing them, and others being low on confidence.

The player really singled out is their new German defender and I had to laugh at this:

"Manning is loaned out and I cant see the life of me why, we need a player like him starting , Smyth has hardly had a kick , nor has chair, Ingram is a nervous wreck , we have bought in the German Bob Malcolm so instead of having a faster CB beside him to help cover his lack of mobility we partner him with the equally less mobile and awful Lynch and try and play out from the back, we have no cover for either fullback position"

He was only there 6 weeks on loan from us, looks like he made a real impression.

https://www.fansnetwork.co.uk/members/queensparkrangers/forum/228614/the-morning-after-the-night-before/#17

There are 9 pages of threads referencing him including appearances in their worst xi, ugliest player, and players with a z in their name as Bob "Zzzzzzz" Malcolm. 

Saw this and had to do a bit of digging: "QPR fans attending this home match with Fulham were treated to the most farcical debut since Bob Malcolm when Samba Diakite took to the field"

In summary: "Anyone remember Bob Malcom's famous debut? That has got to be the worst and most humorous debut ive ever seen! A completely unfit, clown of a player! I think he was subbed after about 20 minutes as far as I rememeber. Had no pace whatsoever, and was overtook by a player about 10 meters behind him, couldnt win a header, he was shocking!"