Top 6 was a decent season

[NottsRam77]

1 hour ago, Angry Ram said:

Was top 6 a decent season? Not so sure really if I am honest. Maybe if you just look at league position but that papers over one hell of a lot of cracks.

Let's ignore the fact that we were second and again imploded in spectacular fashion.

Let's ignore the fact that we went **** or bust and bust and now have to live with the consequences.

Let's ignore the fact that 'young and hungry' were playing for other clubs.

Let's ignore the fact that we had one of the most experienced squads in the league.

Let's ignore the fact that bar the odd 15 mins here and there, we were generally bored shitless for most of the season, even when we were second.

Let's ignore the fact that we have not moved on at all from the previous season.

We now seem to have a souless club with no real identity. The fanbase has never been more split. Crowds are dwindling.

Other than that, we finished 6th in one of the worse Championship seasons I can remember. The quality has been shocking bar Wolves and in the end Fulham. We stayed in the playoffs only really because others could not take advantage of our poor form. 

But hay ho... 6th when some predicted they would be happy with 10th.. Happy days, everything must be on the up. 

Can we ignore u ? Lol, joking, well kinda 

Ok mr pint half empty 

at the end of last season when we had gone through yet another set of managers for the god knows how many seasons in a row, finished a very ordinary mid table and put in a fantastic final day abject effort against already relegated Rotherham what part of u/us didn't think that this club needed a massive overhaul ??

newsflash... it doesn't happen overnight 

weve made a catalog of changes to management, misktakes in the transfer market and paid way over the odds for players and wages.

its not as simple as waving a magic wand over a couple of transfer windows and hoping the likes of butterfield and blackman are going to walk away from their big lengthily contracts 

like it or not it's going to be a gradual process 

so for a manager to pull this lot into the play offs utilising several players that if given the choice he'd rather not have or certainly have an alternative to i think we're doing ok.

am I happy with some of the football? No..

but as a STH I'm prepared to suck it up, get behind my team cos I relise that Rome wasn't built in a day and this isn't a straight forward overhaul

ita a massive job and the only thing that will fix previous mistakes is to not make them again and churn through another set of managers and add to the pile of deadwood were building up 

im prepared to wager we'll see at least 5-6 leave and about 4 come in ..and we'll be much stronger for it 

how many players could u name right now that we could lose and it not make a jot of diffence to the first 11 ... I think that in itself tells its own story and summarises the mess we've put ourselves in 

[RadioactiveWaste]

Rowett's not going to change his approach or style at all.

Never did at Brum.

The thing to pin your hopes on is that we get much much better at being a team that does that - imperiously snuffing out opponents attacks, quick, skilful and devastating with our own and the nouse to control a game when we need to. We saw odd flashes of the first two elements this season, but we never really controlled games well.

It's never going to be pretty. But there were a few good elements and just about enough results to stick with it. 

Look at the likes of Burnley, last time they were in the division they were a very good side at being a Burnley side and objectively a very good side in the division - Dyche didn't change how he manages, just got a side very good at it.

Balanced against the hope of getting very good at being a rowettball side is we clearly tried to give it a go for promotion this season and failed and there will be consequences budget wise - those consequences are on the club, so whoever manages the team will be dealing with them. Might as well deal with them with a pragmatist who's going to get enough effective results whilst doing it.

Top 6 was decent. Enough.

We're in for a grind next season.

We're in for a grind next season even if we boot Rowett.

 

[Curtains]

What worries me is I couldn’t watch the game and I don’t know why.  

 

[Angry Ram]

3 minutes ago, NottsRam77 said:

Can we ignore u ? Lol, joking, well kinda 

Ok mr pint half empty 

at the end of last season when we had gone through yet another set of managers for the god knows how many seasons in a row, finished a very ordinary mid table and put in a fantastic final day abject effort against already relegated Rotherham what part of u/us didn't think that this club needed a massive overhaul ??

newsflash... it doesn't happen overnight 

weve made a catalog of changes to management, misktakes in the transfer market and paid way over the odds for players and wages.

its not as simple as waving a magic wand over a couple of transfer windows and hoping the likes of butterfield and blackman are going to walk away from their big lengthily contracts 

like it or not it's going to be a gradual process 

so for a manager to pull this lot into the play offs utilising several players that if given the choice he'd rather not have or certainly have an alternative to i think we're doing ok.

am I happy with some of the football? No..

but as a STH I'm prepared to suck it up, get behind my team cos I relise that Rome wasn't built in a day and this isn't a straight forward overhaul

ita a massive job and the only thing that will fix previous mistakes is to not make them again and churn through another set of managers and add to the pile of deadwood were piling up 

Erm, perhaps you should have ignored my post.. The question was simple 'Top 6 was a decent finish'? 

'at the end of last season when we had gone through yet another set of managers for the god knows how many seasons in a row, finished a very ordinary mid table and put in a fantastic final day abject effort against already relegated Rotherham what part of u/us didn't think that this club needed a massive overhaul ??' What's that got to do with 6th place this season and my post? 

''newsflash... it doesn't happen overnight'' What's that got to do with 6th place this season and my post? It does not help if you move backwards over night though. But thanks for the 'newsflash'. 

Infact, I cant be arsed to answer each of your points as they don't really relate to what I posted. I'm glad you are a 'STH', I will look out for you in the New Years Honours list. 

[NottsRam77]

6 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

Rowett's not going to change his approach or style at all.

Never did at Brum.

The thing to pin your hopes on is that we get much much better at being a team that does that - imperiously snuffing out opponents attacks, quick, skilful and devastating with our own and the nouse to control a game when we need to. We saw odd flashes of the first two elements this season, but we never really controlled games well.

It's never going to be pretty. But there were a few good elements and just about enough results to stick with it. 

Look at the likes of Burnley, last time they were in the division they were a very good side at being a Burnley side and objectively a very good side in the division - Dyche didn't change how he manages, just got a side very good at it.

Balanced against the hope of getting very good at being a rowettball side is we clearly tried to give it a go for promotion this season and failed and there will be consequences budget wise - those consequences are on the club, so whoever manages the team will be dealing with them. Might as well deal with them with a pragmatist who's going to get enough effective results whilst doing it.

Top 6 was decent. Enough.

We're in for a grind next season.

We're in for a grind next season even if we boot Rowett.

 

I agree with all this 

problem is Cos of our crippling wage bill with so many players piled up from previous managers he's having to try and do it with players that he wouldn't given the choice want to try and inplement it with 

he's squeezed every last drop out of this squad to get us into running he plays offs 

it's been far from pretty at times border line turgid but with more additions, more legs in midfield, and bit more quality in the final third .. im confident

 

[NottsRam77]

6 minutes ago, Angry Ram said:

Erm, perhaps you should have ignored my post.. The question was simple 'Top 6 was a decent finish'? 

'at the end of last season when we had gone through yet another set of managers for the god knows how many seasons in a row, finished a very ordinary mid table and put in a fantastic final day abject effort against already relegated Rotherham what part of u/us didn't think that this club needed a massive overhaul ??' What's that got to do with 6th place this season and my post? 

''newsflash... it doesn't happen overnight'' What's that got to do with 6th place this season and my post? It does not help if you move backwards over night though. But thanks for the 'newsflash'. 

Infact, I cant be arsed to answer each of your points as they don't really relate to what I posted. I'm glad you are a 'STH', I will look out for you in the New Years Honours list. 

U set a tone of utter doom and gloom and that basically we've achieved naff all 

I was replying to it by stating actually it's not.

Thanks for the honoury mention, did ed Dawes mention me whilst u listened in ? Lol   

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

43 minutes ago, curtains said:

I like Gary Rowett and he did well to get us in the top 6. 

This perenial problem is not going to change by sacking managers. 

Next season is another season in which we need to improve and that is not just the manager.  The players also need to improve or move on. 

The academy is MM preferred direction along with cost cutting. 

 

Thanks curtains but you havent answered my questions.

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

9 minutes ago, curtains said:

What worries me is I couldn’t watch the game and I don’t know why.  

 

I think its because when we conceded possession in favour of keeping shape we aren't in control of the ball even if we are generally in control of our half of the pitch. It can make for uncomfortable viewing.  

[Animal is a Ram]

17 minutes ago, EnigmaRam said:

cleared out older highly paid players - no, added to them.

brought in young hungry players - no

increase the value of the players - no

introduced academy players in to the first team squad - no

played good football - no

those are my views and your welcome to challenge them.

While I agree with very much of this - there have been constraints on the majority.

Promotion was not the target. I think Mel will be satisfied with top 6, that's what he got. Just.

Have to find buyers for these players. Martin, Bryson, Blackman, Butterfield, Bent out on loan, plenty of wages freed up there. Suspect there won't be any of those left at Derby by the end of the summer window. Ince, Hughes, Christie sold for a profit. Yes, we've replaced some of these with the likes of with older players - but two of those were crucial in shoring up the defence, and providing a bit of bottle, especially Curtis Davies, who for me was signing of the season.

Think the younger players will come in this season. As above, with those leaving, hopefully, plus Chris Baird out of contract, and MM highlighting the lack of spare cash, we should see us try a bit harder with this. However, lets not forget that Rowett has tried - Winnall in on loan (relative youngster), Palmer in on loan, after the Lookman collapse (both youngsters). We can also only speculate as to what other players he tried for in both windows.

Lets not forget that last summer was Rowett's first window. He had to use it carefully to start moulding his way onto what as been a rather haphazard manager and transfer policy of late (understatement).

If we were a midtable nothing, we perhaps would have seen more of the academy talents. However, as it was, we were challenging for promotion at one time, and for the playoffs for the rest. Hardly the time to be throwing unknown talent in at the deep end. Instead, we've seen the likes of Elsnik, Gordon, Zanzala, Guy go away to challenging lower league clubs to see how they do at first team level. For me, that was the right choice. Most of those have had rave reviews, and that will have been far more use to them developmentally than staying with the u23s. Plus, look at the negative reaction Jamie Hanson received. Yes he's not the best talent we have, but a useful player to have, and an academy lad nonetheless.

It may have not been the best football, but there have still been a few good performances to hang on to. 5-0 at home to Hull, 3-1 home to Cardiff, 3-0 away at Barnsley. It was also effective in getting us to 2nd. I doubt Cardiff will be complaining about their style as they had the substance.

This summer will be far more crucial for Rowett than last. I am an optimist, but I'm realistic.

[jimbobram]

24 minutes ago, curtains said:

What worries me is I couldn’t watch the game and I don’t know why.  

 

Because we all know we were out of our depth. You knew what was going to happen you just didn't want to see it. We shouldn't be that far off Fulham if we stuck to the 'Derby way' and had a genuine philosophy. But, for whatever reason, we have gone to a style where we don't have any control over a game and that's why you couldn't watch.

At the end of the day, we might call this a style of play, but really, this style basically tells us that the management don't really feel we have the quality to give it a go. Yes me made the play offs but that was only due to teams around us being poor too.

[Angry Ram]

31 minutes ago, NottsRam77 said:

U set a tone of utter doom and gloom and that basically we've achieved naff all 

I was replying to it by stating actually it's not.

Thanks for the honoury mention, did ed Dawes mention me whilst u listened in ? Lol   

Not utter doom and gloom.. Just pointing out some issues this season.

When I listened into what? 

[Beetle]

I think top 6 was a decent season.

We all know how we play - counter attacking football. Not sure I like it but I put that done to the quality on the pitch instead of the style. 

How many counter attacks have we had this season where we simply haven't been able to pass the ball to each other, and when we have the final ball has been dreadful.

If Rowett can get the forward players playing in a good unit like the defenders then we will have a good season next year. I think he will stick with three centre halves, hopefully improve left back maybe and get someone who can consistently put a final ball in like the one against Fulham in the first leg that won us that game. Maybe some of the returning players will be a better fit in this system?

 

[NottsRam77]

41 minutes ago, Animal is a Ram said:

While I agree with very much of this - there have been constraints on the majority.

Promotion was not the target. I think Mel will be satisfied with top 6, that's what he got. Just.

Have to find buyers for these players. Martin, Bryson, Blackman, Butterfield, Bent out on loan, plenty of wages freed up there. Suspect there won't be any of those left at Derby by the end of the summer window. Ince, Hughes, Christie sold for a profit. Yes, we've replaced some of these with the likes of with older players - but two of those were crucial in shoring up the defence, and providing a bit of bottle, especially Curtis Davies, who for me was signing of the season.

Think the younger players will come in this season. As above, with those leaving, hopefully, plus Chris Baird out of contract, and MM highlighting the lack of spare cash, we should see us try a bit harder with this. However, lets not forget that Rowett has tried - Winnall in on loan (relative youngster), Palmer in on loan, after the Lookman collapse (both youngsters). We can also only speculate as to what other players he tried for in both windows.

Lets not forget that last summer was Rowett's first window. He had to use it carefully to start moulding his way onto what as been a rather haphazard manager and transfer policy of late (understatement).

If we were a midtable nothing, we perhaps would have seen more of the academy talents. However, as it was, we were challenging for promotion at one time, and for the playoffs for the rest. Hardly the time to be throwing unknown talent in at the deep end. Instead, we've seen the likes of Elsnik, Gordon, Zanzala, Guy go away to challenging lower league clubs to see how they do at first team level. For me, that was the right choice. Most of those have had rave reviews, and that will have been far more use to them developmentally than staying with the u23s. Plus, look at the negative reaction Jamie Hanson received. Yes he's not the best talent we have, but a useful player to have, and an academy lad nonetheless.

It may have not been the best football, but there have still been a few good performances to hang on to. 5-0 at home to Hull, 3-1 home to Cardiff, 3-0 away at Barnsley. It was also effective in getting us to 2nd. I doubt Cardiff will be complaining about their style as they had the substance.

This summer will be far more crucial for Rowett than last. I am an optimist, but I'm realistic.

Absolutely bang on 

someone pin this please 

[NottsRam77]

30 minutes ago, Angry Ram said:

Not utter doom and gloom.. Just pointing out some issues this season.

When I listened into what? 

Rd? lol I'm ******* with u 

it reads that way mate, u saying there nothing positive about this season or moving into next? 

the fact that we've made it into a season with the same manager a season that started the last is reason for a street party is enough surely ?? Lol 

weve been a bit of circus have we not last few years so some much needed stability is huge 

[Animal is a Ram]

9 minutes ago, NottsRam77 said:

Absolutely bang on 

someone pin this please 

Aw shucks. Thanks @NottsRam77.

Nice to know my ramblings make sense, sometimes.

[NottsRam77]

8 minutes ago, Animal is a Ram said:

Aw shucks. Thanks @NottsRam77.

Nice to know my ramblings make sense, sometimes.

It's true mate, 

factually correct and a fair assessment of what has been before and what realistically we can hope for/expect. 

anyone that ignores those very blatant facts quite frankly has their head up their arse or in the clouds 

[Mostyn6]

I cannot abide apologists suggesting Fulham being a better team was a good enough reason to play at 5/10! Absolute travesty to treat fans with such disrespect. I didn't see teams rolling over for us when we were a better team, in fact, the opposite.

There's a poison in the mentality at Derby, a weakness, when we need to stand up and be counted, we shrivel and hide.

I could reel off a list of players who were pathetic last night. Sadly the players that made the mistakes (Keogh and Forsyth) will be highlighted for lapses of concentration, when they were probably the better Derby players.

Rowett should be held to account for expecting players (that we know struggle with concentration and composure) to concentrate and remain composed against a very talented attacking side. Don't tell me that was any sort of tactical nous! It was tactical ineptitude if anything.

As for starting to play properly at 2-0 down, this highlights how we were mugged off, we should've started that way ffs!

[IlsonDerby]

2 hours ago, Moist One said:

I cannot abide apologists suggesting Fulham being a better team was a good enough reason to play at 5/10! Absolute travesty to treat fans with such disrespect. I didn't see teams rolling over for us when we were a better team, in fact, the opposite.

There's a poison in the mentality at Derby, a weakness, when we need to stand up and be counted, we shrivel and hide.

I could reel off a list of players who were pathetic last night. Sadly the players that made the mistakes (Keogh and Forsyth) will be highlighted for lapses of concentration, when they were probably the better Derby players.

Rowett should be held to account for expecting players (that we know struggle with concentration and composure) to concentrate and remain composed against a very talented attacking side. Don't tell me that was any sort of tactical nous! It was tactical ineptitude if anything.

As for starting to play properly at 2-0 down, this highlights how we were mugged off, we should've started that way ffs!

I was happy with the positions we got into in the first half but so disappointed with the quality in the final third. We got behind 3/4 times and the cross against a relatively short back line was time and time again not good enough. 

I will say however that Fulham were brilliant and contributed to us looking poor at times.

 

Who is still left that can have this poisoned mentality because that team of 3 years ago has been ripped apart? This isn't a dig, I just can't think who is still here that can have that weak mentality when under the cosh. 

[NottsRam77]

6 hours ago, jimbobram said:

Because we all know we were out of our depth. You knew what was going to happen you just didn't want to see it. We shouldn't be that far off Fulham if we stuck to the 'Derby way' and had a genuine philosophy. But, for whatever reason, we have gone to a style where we don't have any control over a game and that's why you couldn't watch.

At the end of the day, we might call this a style of play, but really, this style basically tells us that the management don't really feel we have the quality to give it a go. Yes me made the play offs but that was only due to teams around us being poor too.

Hmm

cant really have ur cake and eat it there mate 

so we made the play offs cos everyone else is poo? lol brilliant with support like that what else could the club wish for ?

maybe it was good management? Or It is that being blinkered ?

we made the play offs, with a team made up of probably about 4-5 different managers signings...maybe more who knows 

maybe if we let one guy finish the jigsaw we might end up with something that resembles a cohesive successful unit or is that being too radical....

[jimbobram]

2 minutes ago, NottsRam77 said:

Hmm

cant really have ur cake and eat it there mate 

so we made the play offs cos everyone else is poo? lol brilliant with support like that what else could the club wish for ?

maybe it was good management? Or It is that being blinkered ?

we made the play offs, with a team made up of probably about 4-5 different managers signings...maybe more who knows 

maybe if we let one guy finish a jigsaw we might end up with something that resembles a cohesive successful unit .... or if we did would that be cos everyone else let us by being poo ??

Are you telling me the fact we managed to stay in the play offs when we went on that horrible winless run wasn't due to other teams not taking their chance. In a more competitive championship we would have crashed out.