THE BIG PICTURE

[plymouthram]

Some fans are happy, some fans are angry and some fans are expecting better things. We have spent the last 4 years mainly in the top 10 spots in the championship having had several managers and loads of good quality championship players. Do we want promotion, just to see a repeat of our 2007 record breaking embarrassment. Are we happy to see us playing every season in the most competitive league in Europe at the top end of the division. Football is a sport where we want to support a successful team. How do we measure that success, a team competing at the top of their league every season. Or if we got to the so called top division in Europe, would we be happy knowing we are going to be in a battle for relegation.  We are miles away from being a Manchester club or a big London club. We would need a bigger fan base, a bigger stadium and a bigger, richer owner. I know you can all quote what the Foxes did, but that was a one off. 

I am proud and happy in what Derby have done and achieved in the last 4 or 5 years. We can continue to be a big fish in the Championship and win more games than we lose. Or do you think we should be in the elite Premiership and be just making up the numbers. Please express your opinions, but but realistic with what we can achieve.

[North East Ram]

12 minutes ago, plymouthram said:

Some fans are happy, some fans are angry and some fans are expecting better things. We have spent the last 4 years mainly in the top 10 spots in the championship having had several managers and loads of good quality championship players. Do we want promotion, just to see a repeat of our 2007 record breaking embarrassment. Are we happy to see us playing every season in the most competitive league in Europe at the top end of the division. Football is a sport where we want to support a successful team. How do we measure that success, a team competing at the top of their league every season. Or if we got to the so called top division in Europe, would we be happy knowing we are going to be in a battle for relegation.  We are miles away from being a Manchester club or a big London club. We would need a bigger fan base, a bigger stadium and a bigger, richer owner. I know you can all quote what the Foxes did, but that was a one off. 

I am proud and happy in what Derby have done and achieved in the last 4 or 5 years. We can continue to be a big fish in the Championship and win more games than we lose. Or do you think we should be in the elite Premiership and be just making up the numbers. Please express your opinions, but but realistic with what we can achieve.

We don't need to be a big club. Look at Bournemouth, Swansea, Burnley, West Brom, Newcastle, Watford, Southampton etc etc.

i don't care if we go up with the worst team ever (which might be this year). The 11 pointer is a one off. I reckon even Gary could get 12 points.

i don't think the Championship is the most competitive league in Europe. It's mainly dross to be honest. Which makes it more infuriating that we can't be more successful. Cardiff aren't flash but they look organised and efficient. We look.. im not sure actually. We look a bit meh to be honest. A bit boring. A bit lost. No style. 

Who was genuinely surprised when QPR equalised? 

 

 

[Cam the Ram]

Why is there a guarantee that if we were to go up we'd see a repeat of our 2007 season? I look at the lower Prem teams there now and think yeah we'd probably struggle, but so will 9 or 10 other teams and it'll come down to who can put a few good runs together. And yes you're quite right it was an embarrassment. but this ridiculous drop of form season after season when we enter the last 10-20 games is becoming embarrassing. We've had younger teams, attacking teams, expensive teams, defensive teams and now a very experienced team and still something just seems to go wrong as we pass the January transfer window. 

I enjoy winning more than we lose like we currently do in the Championship, but what's the point in watching the games if we just want to stay in this league forever, especially if the football we play isn't particularly exciting? Signing Championship quality players, paying more and more each season to watch us play teams like Ipswich and Reading. Fair enough if you're content with that, but I personally want to see us go up and see what type of players we sign. At least if we came back down we'd have the parachute payments to make things interesting. 

[Yani P]

I agree with a lot of this - I think just the way we are set up as a club, from the academy right through to a decent stadium with the option to increase capacity we are geared up to be a Premier League team.

We are a bigger club than a fair number of teams that have not only survived in the Premier League but have thrived.

They are managed well, they recruit wisely from around the world and they bring through the youngsters that they have invested in.

The shame for me is we appear to be going backwards right now. But I would be far happier seeing us trying to build an exciting skilful team that wanted to play the game well and entertain any day over this dross that we are currently being served up.

Our disaster season was a one off - who brings in a new manager before the end of November who states in an early press conference that he is here to prepare the team for the Championship !!!!

We should be looking at the Premier League we should be preparing for that - at the moment we have lost the way to achieve it, I am sure we will get it back but to me it needs a revamp at many levels. Our playing staff are not good enough, our scouting staff are not good enough and I personally have seen little to suggest that our management staff are good enough.

If we do get there and Mel is still here, I would be amazed if he wont be out building his contacts in the Far East to bring in more substantial investment if he deems it necessary.

[plymouthram]

7 minutes ago, Tim Bucktoo said:

We don't need to be a big club. Look at Bournemouth, Swansea, Burnley, West Brom, Newcastle, Watford, Southampton etc etc.

i don't care if we go up with the worst team ever (which might be this year). The 11 pointer is a one off. I reckon even Gary could get 12 points.

i don't think the Championship is the most competitive league in Europe. It's mainly dross to be honest. Which makes it more infuriating that we can't be more successful. Cardiff aren't flash but they look organised and efficient. We look.. im not sure actually. We look a bit meh to be honest. A bit boring. A bit lost. No style. 

Who was genuinely surprised when QPR equalised? 

 

 

Barring Burnley and Watford the rest could get relegated this season. The ones that survive could go down next season. They and us would be just making the numbers up. We won't be part of the big 6 or 7 in the Premiership, but we are in the Championship and i quite like that at the moment.

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

if we managed to go up this year without a considerable investment probably 8-9 players at a cost around £120-140 mil we would really struggle . the key is attacking players- most teams who do well defensively in this league and go up struggle as when they concede they don't have the capability to open teams up without conceding more.  I reckon the Burley play off team would have made  a decent go of staying up and mcclaren 13/14 with investment .  I expect Derby to be a mid table premier league club with the occasional uefa cup challenge - to be honest though how any club does always come down to money put in once they play in the top league- certainly don't want to be in this league for the next 10 years I think were better than that .

[North East Ram]

1 minute ago, plymouthram said:

Barring Burnley and Watford the rest could get relegated this season. The ones that survive could go down next season. They and us would be just making the numbers up. We won't be part of the big 6 or 7 in the Premiership, but we are in the Championship and i quite like that at the moment.

Fair enough. Each to their own. You must be loving the last 17 years then. 

 

[Leon the ram 2009]

I think the title of this thread can be united with the thread I started...we are a joke 

[plymouthram]

11 minutes ago, Cam the Ram said:

Why is there a guarantee that if we were to go up we'd see a repeat of our 2007 season? I look at the lower Prem teams there now and think yeah we'd probably struggle, but so will 9 or 10 other teams and it'll come down to who can put a few good runs together. And yes you're quite right it was an embarrassment. but this ridiculous drop of form season after season when we enter the last 10-20 games is becoming embarrassing. We've had younger teams, attacking teams, expensive teams, defensive teams and now a very experienced team and still something just seems to go wrong as we pass the January transfer window. 

I enjoy winning more than we lose like we currently do in the Championship, but what's the point in watching the games if we just want to stay in this league forever, especially if the football we play isn't particularly exciting? Signing Championship quality players, paying more and more each season to watch us play teams like Ipswich and Reading. Fair enough if you're content with that, but I personally want to see us go up and see what type of players we sign. At least if we came back down we'd have the parachute payments to make things interesting. 

The fact of getting up and getting a parachute payment when you come back down to make things more interesting? Does not look interesting for Wigan, Blackburn, Hull and Sunderland just to name a few. Nothing is guaranteed, only that you will lose more games than you will win.

[plymouthram]

10 minutes ago, Tim Bucktoo said:

Fair enough. Each to their own. You must be loving the last 17 years then. 

 

I actually loved the late 60's and early 70's more than the last 17 years. But I am a realist and think unless we had a multi billionaire owner, we will never be able to compete with the current big 6 or 7 Premiership teams. I have a couple of work mates, one supports Westbrom the other Southampton and they are not enjoying their teams current situation.

[Cam the Ram]

15 minutes ago, plymouthram said:

The fact of getting up and getting a parachute payment when you come back down to make things more interesting? Does not look interesting for Wigan, Blackburn, Hull and Sunderland just to name a few. Nothing is guaranteed, only that you will lose more games than you will win.

I'm not sure what Wigan's situation was like, but the other 3 have horrible owners. I'd like to think Mel will always try to do his best for the club and that would include reinvesting the parachute payments in order to get a team ready to once again challenge for promotion. 

The teams who have got parachute payments in the past few years:

Norwich - immediately promoted back to the Prem after relegation

Fulham - took a couple of years, but they're now pushing for promotion

Cardiff - took a couple of years, but they're now pushing for promotion

Hull - immediately promoted back to the Prem after relegation

Burnley - immediately promoted back to the Prem after relegation

QPR - finished top half after relegation but are now struggling

Newcastle - immediately promoted back to the Prem after relegation

Norwich (again) - finished just outside the play offs in first season after relegation. Currently mid table

Aston Villa - took a season of rebuilding, but they're now pushing for promotion

Hull (again) - struggling

Boro - in the play offs

Sunderland - they're a mess

 

I'd say as a whole parachute payments have been quite useful for relegated teams in recent years. Most teams have been promoted, or challenged for promotion whilst still receiving parachute payments

[Andicis]

I'm less concerned with the division than the results. If you offered me right now, McClaren 14 season, with the same outcome as the first time I'd snap your hands of. I'd have to go through the heartbreak, but I'd love every minute of the football up to that. Even if we get promoted this year, I will never love it as much as I loved that season, not even close. 

[sunnyhill60]

41 minutes ago, Andicis said:

I'm less concerned with the division than the results. If you offered me right now, McClaren 14 season, with the same outcome as the first time I'd snap your hands of. I'd have to go through the heartbreak, but I'd love every minute of the football up to that. Even if we get promoted this year, I will never love it as much as I loved that season, not even close. 

That Mac1 season was a feast after a famine.

Don't get me wrong, I can enjoy a famine and Billy's was good.

I'm not enjoying the current one much though.

[Gone]

I just want to see good football no matter what division we are in. This season I haven't seen any 

[Shaftesbury st]

I would argue we have not achieved anything, we are a top 8 team but are yet to break that mould and knock a couple of places off that. 

Talk of £120 million seems daft in my opinion upon promotion, we obviously would have to spend but I would suggest half of that figure would be required. If we got promoted then better loan players would open up for us, top teams prefer to test younger players in the premier league than at Championship level so we could exploit that.

Where i do worry is our complete lack of ability at present to exploit the foreign market, there are players to be had and if we can’t tap into that we would I’m sure make it harder for ourselves to compete. Better investment may come if we got promoted and in all honesty that is not something I worry about as I have complete faith and satisfaction in MM that our club is managed correctly where finances are concerned. 

Im sure many would agree promotion is required, attendances are dipping as the familiar slide starts again. I would hope for a potential first season push for top of the bottom five, second season a half way finish with the next two to three years similar depending on investment. 

[TroyDyer]

I'm with Texas. I just want to enjoy watching Derby. I loved watching Bueno Cywka and Commons. Even though we weren't going up. 

I took the Billy year because we got promoted and there were some exciting moments in there. 

I don't enjoy watching Derby and haven't for a while. They bore the hell out of me. They're massively predictable. 

I haven't renewed as I have my first baby due in June so have written off next year financially, but to be honest, I'd been talking about not renewing anyway.  

[Angry Ram]

8 hours ago, plymouthram said:

Some fans are happy, some fans are angry and some fans are expecting better things. We have spent the last 4 years mainly in the top 10 spots in the championship having had several managers and loads of good quality championship players. Do we want promotion, just to see a repeat of our 2007 record breaking embarrassment. Are we happy to see us playing every season in the most competitive league in Europe at the top end of the division. Football is a sport where we want to support a successful team. How do we measure that success, a team competing at the top of their league every season. Or if we got to the so called top division in Europe, would we be happy knowing we are going to be in a battle for relegation.  We are miles away from being a Manchester club or a big London club. We would need a bigger fan base, a bigger stadium and a bigger, richer owner. I know you can all quote what the Foxes did, but that was a one off. 

I am proud and happy in what Derby have done and achieved in the last 4 or 5 years. We can continue to be a big fish in the Championship and win more games than we lose. Or do you think we should be in the elite Premiership and be just making up the numbers. Please express your opinions, but but realistic with what we can achieve.

So we just give up then.. What's the point of even playing in the Championship? This attitude has crept into football and is killing it.

We wont't win the FA Cup, or so I am told every season, so why bother playing your best 11? It's a sporting contest and we are a sports organistaion, it should be core to everything we do to win the next game, whatever or whoever that is. We don't have that attiude anymore as a club and it breaks my heart. 

Football is cyclical, we know that more than most. Would you have rather have not had those fleeting moments under Jim Smith when we potentailly qualified for Europe? Would any Leicester fan give up that wonderful season just because they and everyone else knew that would not sustain it? Would Wigan and Pomey fans, give up those FA Cup memories? Not a fecking chance.. Fleeting moments in years of dross. Things they will talk about to their kids when the have not won anything for 20 years or more.. A bit like I do now with my kids. If you take that away as well, then get rid of everything below the beloved Premier League. I hate almost everything about the PL but it is the pinnacle we have to try and achieve. 

I am bored stiff of the Championship, let's have it right, the standard is shocking. I watched absolute dog poo last night from both teams, I have watched absolute dog poo all season if I am honest, bar 20 mins here and there and that's not just us. Same old trips year after year.. We are already seeing dwindling interest in DCFC. I have certainly lost my passion for travelling 136 miles each way to PP and god knows how many miles with away games.. Weekends, midweek, rain, snow whatever and it seems others feel the same. I don't care what offical attendances say, it has been poor this season. A lifeless ground where people are turning up more through habbit or a sense of duty.. How long is that sustainable? And how long before our 'top 10' Championship pinnacle, becomes a bottom 10 and then a League 1 top 10. The inevitable will happen. Who would sign for a club happy to be losers? 

This country, loves a nearly man, you seem to love a nearly man. It's okay we just missed out but didnt we play well against Brentford back in December. Remember that first half against Birmingham.. Well worth my £500 season ticket. We are not entitled to much as a football club or as fans but we are entitled to a club that wants to be the best it can be. 

If your vision of Derby in the future becomes a reality, I'm off, I will go to non-league and watch my football. Honest stuff, passionate stuff. 

Rant over..

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

1 hour ago, Angry Ram said:

So we just give up then.. What's the point of even playing in the Championship? This attitude has crept into football and is killing it.

We wont't win the FA Cup, or so I am told every season, so why bother playing your best 11? It's a sporting contest and we are a sports organistaion, it should be core to everything we do to win the next game, whatever or whoever that is. We don't have that attiude anymore as a club and it breaks my heart. 

Football is cyclical, we know that more than most. Would you have rather have not had those fleeting moments under Jim Smith when we potentailly qualified for Europe? Would any Leicester fan give up that wonderful season just because they and everyone else knew that would not sustain it? Would Wigan and Pomey fans, give up those FA Cup memories? Not a fecking chance.. Fleeting moments in years of dross. Things they will talk about to their kids when the have not won anything for 20 years or more.. A bit like I do now with my kids. If you take that away as well, then get rid of everything below the beloved Premier League. I hate almost everything about the PL but it is the pinnacle we have to try and achieve. 

I am bored stiff of the Championship, let's have it right, the standard is shocking. I watched absolute dog poo last night from both teams, I have watched absolute dog poo all season if I am honest, bar 20 mins here and there and that's not just us. Same old trips year after year.. We are already seeing dwindling interest in DCFC. I have certainly lost my passion for travelling 136 miles each way to PP and god knows how many miles with away games.. Weekends, midweek, rain, snow whatever and it seems others feel the same. I don't care what offical attendances say, it has been poor this season. A lifeless ground where people are turning up more through habbit or a sense of duty.. How long is that sustainable? And how long before our 'top 10' Championship pinnacle, becomes a bottom 10 and then a League 1 top 10. The inevitable will happen. Who would sign for a club happy to be losers? 

This country, loves a nearly man, you seem to love a nearly man. It's okay we just missed out but didnt we play well against Brentford back in December. Remember that first half against Birmingham.. Well worth my £500 season ticket. We are not entitled to much as a football club or as fans but we are entitled to a club that wants to be the best it can be. 

If your vision of Derby in the future becomes a reality, I'm off, I will go to non-league and watch my football. Honest stuff, passionate stuff. 

Rant over..

That's not a rant angry,that's the truth.

Well done,well said.

 

[HectorsHouse]

The Big Picture...? The Big question surely has to be 'are we good enough for promotion?'.....without hesitation the answer is 'NO'

It's not that I don't want promotion, it's just that based on the season so far it would be an 'accidental' promotion not deserved. What I mean by that is that we are relying on other teams who are displaying some considerable form to significantly deteriorate.

We had an absolutley incredible November and December which catapulted us up the table however this has been sandwiched by two very mediocre periods.

I'm not a 'wristslasher' more a realist that acknowldges that for whatever reason (injuries, FFP restrictions, selections, form etc) at this current moment we are not nailed on for the play offs let alone promotion...and the current squad and perhaps GR aren't up to the PL at the moment.

So, with 10 games to go, what do I want? Well I certainly don't want to continue on this downward spiral....if we are to qualify for the play offs then we need some momentum for pride and morale and not creep over the line with a whimper.

If only we had a BIG game coming soon to re-ignite our season ...