Seaside Sam Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Hughes =always injured Martin = can't get in Readings team Elsnick =jury out and as for Christie it's no coincidence that Keogh looks twice the player since he hasn't had to do is job for him,Boro soon farmed him out didn't they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t'oldu Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Not farmed out....sold on .... at a profit....and we get a cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 53 minutes ago, Manicsheepreacher said: As regards to upgrades or not, I think it's more a question of building a more cohesive and organised side with a better team spirit which I'd say this team definitely has more than previous ones. What I like about this team in particular is its lack of ego. It's definitely a case of for the many and not the few : ) Which I think if you look at some, or all of the players we've moved on, then I think ego and entitlement were an issue, and had a draining effect when the going got tough. In regards to Martin if we didn't play to his strengths then he was more often than not just a passenger in the team. How many times was he labeled as a 'sulky' player for us? The same could be said for Ince too, though both were match winners the body language of both at times was quite petulant to say the least. Both had an air of entitlement about them a lot, which you quite simply don't feel to the same extent as in the past with Rowett's team. The new crop pull their sleeves up and keep at it. And I think a distinct lack of ego is helping. I don't know about you, but I seriously reckon a MaClaren team, with all its stars would have lost that game last night. Hughes on the other hand, for all his talents was ultimately growing stale here, and needed a different challenge to prove that he can raise his game and be more influential in games. Ultimately, the big time Charlie mentality needed bringing down a peg or two, and I think we're much better placed as a result. Yeah,the team spirit was dreadful before rowett. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 13 hours ago, jagerbob said: We wouldnt be near the top 2 with hughes in the team. For a start accomodating Hughes would mean no Vydra. I liked our style in 2014... but the fact is, after a serious injury or not... Hughes and some of the others were dire last season. Hughes wasnt let go.... a bid game in... and he wanted to go.... so let him.... thats the power players have these days. Hughes would play in the two and is just what we need. Somebody who will run the game from the channels. People make out Hughes was kicking up a fuss etcetera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 33 minutes ago, Seaside Sam said: Hughes =always injured Wrong Martin = can't get in Readings team Wrong Elsnick =jury out and as for Christie it's no coincidence that Keogh looks twice the player since he hasn't had to do is job for him,Boro soon farmed him out didn't they? Total coincidence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 33 minutes ago, t'oldu said: Not farmed out....sold on .... at a profit....and we get a cut. Undisclosed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manicsheepreacher Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 2 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said: Yeah,the team spirit was dreadful before rowett. Did I say team spirit was awful before GR? I pointed out that a couple of our now former players let their heads drop too easily when things didn't go their way, and we're far too preoccupied with the team providing for them. Hence the ego comment. Any team can look like a band of brothers when everything clicks, as it did against Forest that day. In a way, I think you're actually strengthening my point. Show me a photo of the Reading game, when we missed out on the playoffs, of our more gifted players taking a stand and being countered, then I'll revise my opinion. A huge factor in why we got to Wembley that year was down to the likes of Grant, Buxton and Eustace, players with a never say die attitude. And we have since filled the squad with more experienced players of that same mindset, of whom in my opinion are actually more effective footballers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 42 minutes ago, Manicsheepreacher said: Did I say team spirit was awful before GR? I pointed out that a couple of our now former players let their heads drop too easily when things didn't go their way, and we're far too preoccupied with the team providing for them. Hence the ego comment. Any team can look like a band of brothers when everything clicks, as it did against Forest that day. In a way, I think you're actually strengthening my point. Show me a photo of the Reading game, when we missed out on the playoffs, of our more gifted players taking a stand and being countered, then I'll revise my opinion. A huge factor in why we got to Wembley that year was down to the likes of Grant, Buxton and Eustace, players with a never say die attitude. And we have since filled the squad with more experienced players of that same mindset, of whom in my opinion are actually more effective footballers. More effective?.... really?? Nowhere near. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROSSWORD Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 6 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said: More effective?.... really?? More ineffectual more like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaside Sam Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 1 hour ago, cannable said: not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumram Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 10 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said: More effective?.... really?? Nowhere near. Davies, Carson and Huddlestone are a world better players than grant, Buxton and eustace. Shame the attack is comparably so ineffectual Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentRam Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 12 hours ago, TommyPowel said: so how come we are still in the championship? Exactly this. Tiresome hearing people make Martin and Russell sound like Messi and Ronaldo. One of them is on Reading at loan and the other ended up in one of the worst teams in a league which is at best comparable to League One. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 5 minutes ago, Millenniumram said: Davies, Carson and Huddlestone are a world better players than grant, Buxton and eustace. Shame the attack is comparably so ineffectual Grant,Buxton and Eustace were a very effective team back in the day...perhaps individually less so(grant perhaps excepted). Agreed on the attack however Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manicsheepreacher Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 35 minutes ago, Millenniumram said: Davies, Carson and Huddlestone are a world better players than grant, Buxton and eustace. Shame the attack is comparably so ineffectual Which is exactly what I was saying. Was going to write better instead of effective, but Buxton is probably better with the ball at his feet and a better passer than Davies but the latter is the more effective defender. As his career has proven. In regards to an ineffective attack, I've got a feeling that Palmer is going to have a big say in that. The Huddersfield fans think he's the cat's pajamas. They talk about him in the same vain as Rams fans talk about Jordan Ibe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagerbob Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 awful lot of debate in this thread when we all know... its purely down to how clincal we are infront of goal up until jan we wer very clinical now we arent. that is the only reason we arent winning games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archied Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 12 minutes ago, jagerbob said: awful lot of debate in this thread when we all know... its purely down to how clincal we are infront of goal up until jan we wer very clinical now we arent. that is the only reason we arent winning games. Spot on,,,, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumram Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 1 hour ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said: Grant,Buxton and Eustace were a very effective team back in the day...perhaps individually less so(grant perhaps excepted). Agreed on the attack however That’s the point, *i think* the person you were quoting was on about their individual abilities which are certainly greater. That team was indeed very effective, but that wasn’t just down to those players, they were good because the whole 11 contributed which sometimes made up for shortcomings in individual ability. Think perhaps a better point to make in comparison is the consistency in ability throughout the team. Both the 13/14 team and this team have very string spines- Martin,Keogh,Hughes, Bryson vs Carson, Davies, Keogh, Huddlestone, Vydra. That’s why both have been successful. What Rowetts team lacks at the moment is the players around them which can take the mantle and share the responsibility so we’re not too reliant on that talented core. 13/14 had players like Hendrick, ward and dawkins- while this team has players like Lawrence and Anya who aren’t contributing enough. That’s why we aren’t quite as consistent imo, but it’s nothing new- we had similar issues in 14/15 and last year. We can take heart from the team spirit however, it’s a stretch to say it didn’t exist beforehand, but it’s certainly better than the last couple of years. It’s now just a question of whether some of that core is young enough to go again which is the concern- I do think they may have One more year in them however, a top class striker, left back and a couple of wingers in the summer and we’ll go up next year no doubt. But do we have the money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Wisdom is a better defender than Christie nugent and Martin have different strengths but both excellent Jerome and Martin have have different strengths but Martin is a better option especially now that we are down to Jerome or nugent and he is younger and he didn’t cost 1.5 million pounds and he wants to play for us and you can see why Norwich took the £1.5 million Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram8 Posted February 22, 2018 Author Share Posted February 22, 2018 Good to see that there are some who agree with (most or some of) my views, and as I expected, many who disagree .. However, whilst I can accept the validity of the view that an individual manager might want to build a team to his own plan / in his own image, as Rowett has plainly done, that doesn’t necessarily follow that he always gets it right, or that it proves to be successful; and looking at the reasons that are coming up for Rowett’s rejection of the abilities of (for instance) Martin, Hughes and Christie, then I think there are other reasons that one might like to consider for his inability to integrate them into his tactical and personnel plans .. Hughes and Christie, both players with flair and technical ability, I believe that he wasn’t prepared to put in the work necessary to integrate their individuality into his rigid system .. Martin I think was too big a personality for him to integrate into the rigidity and inflexibility of his tactical philosophy, because Martin has an ego and confidence that (because of his technical ability and vision on the field, not something that can be coached in or out of a player) could challenge Rowett’s views of the ‘setting up’ of a game, or the unfolding of a game’s direction. This ‘attitude’ of Martin’s, seen by many as petulance or sulking, was actually the passion of a player who could ‘read’ a game a few pages ahead of most of his team mates, and became (justifiably) frustrated at times when some of them lost the plot ! McLaren used this personality trait of Martin’s, and incorporated it as an integral part of the team’s philosophy; Rowett saw it as disruptive, merely because he seems to want ‘foot soldiers / roundheads’, not ‘cavaliers’ .. A similar situation developed when Billy Davies sold Inigo Idiakez, a player who I don’t believe would have blindly followed Davies’ instructions, so obviously flawed as they were .. Incidentally, the one exception in this present team is Tom Huddlestone (and possibly George Thorne if he recovers his former glory) who plays ‘cavalier’ football, but has a personality that oozes composure, two traits that rarely occur in one player; and his contributions to the game are worth the admission money in themselves .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BathRam72 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Hughes was never the player he once was after injury. As a teenager he shone and looked like he would become a top player. Quite frankly he is not as good as everyone makes out. Not exactly holding down a first team place in a poor premier side Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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