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Tactical Changes

Bob Gnarly

By Bob Gnarly
in Derby County Forum

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DCFC1976

DCFC1976

Posted
Posted

                           Carson

         Keogh   Huddlestone   Davies 

Wisdom  Thorne/Ledley Johnson  Forsyth

                            Vydra

                 Martin         Lawrence 

Could pick any three up front really on form.

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sage

sage

Posted
Posted

Loving the potential of this thread. In the words of Hannibal Lector 'we covet what we see every day' so I think if you want to go on a journey, it's sensible to fully understand where you are starting from, both in terms of personnel and system.

Goalkeepers - Carson (clear first choice, good all round keeper, not great on crosses) Roos (appears to be on hios way out) Mitchell (some potential, but some way short of Champ quality at present)

Right Backs - Wisdom ( strong, mobile lacks finesse in passing - could play CB as 1 of 3 but not wing back) Baird (experienced, great passer but aging and slow, out of contract in summer)

Left Backs - Forsyth (decent in the air, strong runner, erratic passer and fragile confidence - could play WB and LCB at a push) Olsson (neat forward play but weak aerially and doesn't stop crosses-could play WB) Lowe (some silky skills but currently naïve defensively- could play WB) 

Centre Backs - Keogh (mobile, brave, good on the ball, occasionally over confident - could play centre or right of 3) Davies (solid, strong aerially. reasonably mobile, ok on the ball, aging - could play in a 3 at a push)  Pearce (solid but slow and poor on the ball, can't play in a 3) Shackell (solid and assured but aging and ponderous in possession-couldn't play in a 3 anymore)

DCM - Huddlestone (great long passer, decent aerially but very slow and aging - better suited to 3 in CM) Ledley (steady eddie, breaks up play, safe passer. decent aerially, slow and aging,contract till Jan ) Thorne (great long and short passer, decent defensively and aerially, but rusty and short of fitness, would be better in a 3 until he gets fitter) 

CM - Johnson (an enigma, decent in the air, poor passer, great finisher, best on the left in a 4)

Wingers/Wide forwards - Russell (works hard. direct. ok in the air, mobile, lacks poise. stamina and at the moment goals) Lawrence (can shoot and cross but makes poor decisions and poor at linking up play) Weimann (has pace and a powerful shot, fails to link with others, little end result) Anya (pace and trickery, but never scores and lightweight, can defend well enough to play WB at a push)  

Forwards - Martin (slow but great touch and passing, has scored goals in the past - can play ACM but not wide, can play in a 2 or on his own with support), Nugent (hardworking mobile, not fast, can finish and link up quite well, can't play ACM or wide) Vydra (quick, decent finisher, links up play quite well but lightweight, gives ball away -can play ACM, wide at a push) Winnall (mobile not quick, hardworking, good finisher, poor link up play and poor temperament, can play wide at a push)

We currently play a counter attacking 4231 at our best at a high tempo but can et overrun and outrun in midfield, with poor defensive passing and no real pace up front). Starting to add Johnson wide left away from home to stiffen the midfield. Current preferred team if everyone is fit is SC-AW RK CD CF-TH JL-TL MV JR/BJ- DN.

 

Next we have to decide the balance we want between entertainment and success. Do we want to win at all costs?

Personally having Derby win the League when I was 3 and 6 and very unlikely to even come close to winning it again, I want to see good football and try to gain as much as success as we can with that.

Whilst pace and strength is so important these days I also want to watch footballers. I want to watch people do things with the ball I could never dream of doing not just sit there thinking wow he is quick or he is tall. Therefore I would like to see the side built around our best footballers, Keogh, Thorne and Martin. I want to see more footballers amongst the athletes, ideally a few with pace and the ability to pass to another Derby player.

I am happy with a 4231 and would currently play Martin behind Nugent, play Lawrence wide right asking him to concentrate on getting crosses in and play Vydra wide left at home and Johnson wide left away. This isn't ideal and has an element of square pegs in round holes but it gets our best players on the pitch in a way that means we can score goals.

Going forward I would like to see a LCB who is more mobile and can pass well so we have options passing out from the back. I would like to see Thorne replace Huddlestone when fitter, someone with more mobility replace Ledley, a genuine attacking midfielder to play behind Martin and someone with genuine pace out wide.

I don't really believe in plan B. I believe in player B so plan A doesn't go pear shaped when player A is injured.

 

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sunnyhill60

sunnyhill60

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, sage said:

Whilst pace and strength is so important these days I also want to watch footballers. I want to watch people do things with the ball I could never dream of doing not just sit there thinking wow he is quick or he is tall. Therefore I would like to see the side built around our best footballers, Keogh, Thorne and Martin. I want to see more footballers amongst the athletes, ideally a few with pace and the ability to pass to another Derby player.

Could not agree more.

Will it happen? Sadly not, I think

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Igorwasking

Igorwasking

Posted
Posted
13 hours ago, Millenniumram said:

I’d definately look at going three at the back as others have said, a lot of teams are having success of it at the moment. It’s much more fluid used correctly than some of the more ridged traditional formations, with the right amount of training on it I think it could be a real success in this division. Always seems harder to play against when I’ve watched, and we already have a lot of players who would be suited to playing it. I’d look at something like:

Carson

Wisdom Keogh Davies

NEW Thorne NEW Lowe

Lawrence Martin Vydra

Think those two around Martin would create some nice interchanges and that back three provides the perfect balance for this sort of formation. We’d only really need a quality attack RWB and probably a box to box midfielder to link play beside Thorne, tho Johnson or ledley could maybe do a job there.

So get Christie and Bryson back?

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RamNut

RamNut

Posted
Posted
21 hours ago, ramsbottom said:

I'd like us to try 3 at the back, like in the Bald Eagle glory days.

-----------------------------Carson

-----------Keogh---------Davis---------Pearce

Wisdom-------Ledley-----------Thorne---------Forsyth/Olsson

-----------------------------Vydra

------------------Martin-----------Nugent

 

I quite like that......apart from Pearce who is rubbish.

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sage

sage

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, ramsbottom said:

As a passing centre half yeah, but purely as someone to kick & head it away, he'd decent enough for a three.  

When you play 3 at the back, in terms of passing it is like playing 2 cb and a dcm. Therefore they all need to be comfortable on the ball. Some mobility is ideal too.

Davies in terms of mobility and passing would be the minimum levels you would want.

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Ellafella

Ellafella

Posted
Posted
15 hours ago, sage said:

Loving the potential of this thread. In the words of Hannibal Lector 'we covet what we see every day' so I think if you want to go on a journey, it's sensible to fully understand where you are starting from, both in terms of personnel and system.

Goalkeepers - Carson (clear first choice, good all round keeper, not great on crosses) Roos (appears to be on hios way out) Mitchell (some potential, but some way short of Champ quality at present)

Right Backs - Wisdom ( strong, mobile lacks finesse in passing - could play CB as 1 of 3 but not wing back) Baird (experienced, great passer but aging and slow, out of contract in summer)

Left Backs - Forsyth (decent in the air, strong runner, erratic passer and fragile confidence - could play WB and LCB at a push) Olsson (neat forward play but weak aerially and doesn't stop crosses-could play WB) Lowe (some silky skills but currently naïve defensively- could play WB) 

Centre Backs - Keogh (mobile, brave, good on the ball, occasionally over confident - could play centre or right of 3) Davies (solid, strong aerially. reasonably mobile, ok on the ball, aging - could play in a 3 at a push)  Pearce (solid but slow and poor on the ball, can't play in a 3) Shackell (solid and assured but aging and ponderous in possession-couldn't play in a 3 anymore)

DCM - Huddlestone (great long passer, decent aerially but very slow and aging - better suited to 3 in CM) Ledley (steady eddie, breaks up play, safe passer. decent aerially, slow and aging,contract till Jan ) Thorne (great long and short passer, decent defensively and aerially, but rusty and short of fitness, would be better in a 3 until he gets fitter) 

CM - Johnson (an enigma, decent in the air, poor passer, great finisher, best on the left in a 4)

Wingers/Wide forwards - Russell (works hard. direct. ok in the air, mobile, lacks poise. stamina and at the moment goals) Lawrence (can shoot and cross but makes poor decisions and poor at linking up play) Weimann (has pace and a powerful shot, fails to link with others, little end result) Anya (pace and trickery, but never scores and lightweight, can defend well enough to play WB at a push)  

Forwards - Martin (slow but great touch and passing, has scored goals in the past - can play ACM but not wide, can play in a 2 or on his own with support), Nugent (hardworking mobile, not fast, can finish and link up quite well, can't play ACM or wide) Vydra (quick, decent finisher, links up play quite well but lightweight, gives ball away -can play ACM, wide at a push) Winnall (mobile not quick, hardworking, good finisher, poor link up play and poor temperament, can play wide at a push)

We currently play a counter attacking 4231 at our best at a high tempo but can et overrun and outrun in midfield, with poor defensive passing and no real pace up front). Starting to add Johnson wide left away from home to stiffen the midfield. Current preferred team if everyone is fit is SC-AW RK CD CF-TH JL-TL MV JR/BJ- DN.

 

Next we have to decide the balance we want between entertainment and success. Do we want to win at all costs?

Personally having Derby win the League when I was 3 and 6 and very unlikely to even come close to winning it again, I want to see good football and try to gain as much as success as we can with that.

Whilst pace and strength is so important these days I also want to watch footballers. I want to watch people do things with the ball I could never dream of doing not just sit there thinking wow he is quick or he is tall. Therefore I would like to see the side built around our best footballers, Keogh, Thorne and Martin. I want to see more footballers amongst the athletes, ideally a few with pace and the ability to pass to another Derby player.

I am happy with a 4231 and would currently play Martin behind Nugent, play Lawrence wide right asking him to concentrate on getting crosses in and play Vydra wide left at home and Johnson wide left away. This isn't ideal and has an element of square pegs in round holes but it gets our best players on the pitch in a way that means we can score goals.

Going forward I would like to see a LCB who is more mobile and can pass well so we have options passing out from the back. I would like to see Thorne replace Huddlestone when fitter, someone with more mobility replace Ledley, a genuine attacking midfielder to play behind Martin and someone with genuine pace out wide.

I don't really believe in plan B. I believe in player B so plan A doesn't go pear shaped when player A is injured.

 

The best post I have ever read on a Derby County fan site. It describes exactly what I want. The analysis of current players could have been done by a top Football Analyst. Congratulations Sir. I have highlighted those bits that are especially good.  

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sage

sage

Posted
Posted
17 minutes ago, Ellafella said:

The best post I have ever read on a Derby County fan site. It describes exactly what I want. The analysis of current players could have been done by a top Football Analyst. Congratulations Sir. I have highlighted those bits that are especially good.  

I'm still not having sex with you.

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lrm14

lrm14

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, ramsbottom said:

As a passing centre half yeah, but purely as someone to kick & head it away, he'd decent enough for a three.  

But if you're playing a back three your CB's need to be exceptionally comfortable on the ball, seeing as your attacks usually start from the back. Keogh is good on the ball, Davies is alright and Pearce is horrific. Not sure that would would work very well.

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