Zak Brunt - Academy kid

[ramblur]

This seems to give an outline of the situation prior to audit :-   https://www.premierleague.com/news/58981

Since then we seem to have had a capital spend on training complex of £4.1m,with a further £5.8m  the following year,although some of this relates to PP.

[RamNut]

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It is speculated it costs around £20,000 a week to run the Academy, equating to £1m a year.

That is the figure reported for huddersfield's cat 2 academy.

Quote

The club will reinvest the £500,000 saving in annual running costs

This is the reported figure for running the entire u9 to u16 operation which they decided to scrap.

[RamNut]

Quote

Robert Rowan, the club’s Head of Football Operations, told SunSport: “We were spending £2million a year on something that simply wasn’t producing enough players for the first team.

The quoted cost of brentfords academy. Also scrapped.

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If, as Crewe hope, their academy is graded in the second tier, the expectation is that it could cost in the region of £1 million each year.

Another quote for a cat 2 academy

[RamNut]

There seems to be a widespread view that the academy system was designed to create a smaller number of elite academies who could pinch the best u16s from wherever for low compensation fees. Some clubs are therefore deciding that it is not worth their while in funding the running costs of the academies for u16s. 

So the league wants the best kids to move to the best academies and is implementing a system to enable that to happen.

therefore go to the next logical level. Funding the limited number of cat 1 and cat 2 academies so that the cost to the clubs is covered. And allow freedom of movement for the u16s.

derby might lose a few zak brunts, but would stand to gain just as many from elsewhere.

the real player development only really kicks in at >16 level which can be fully protected with proper transfer fees.

QED

[richinspain]

I haven’t been able to read the whole of the thread, but one thing I do know is that Alzira FC received a payment as part of the package for signing Raul Albentosa. It was only a small amount, probably quite a lot for a club of their size, but a recognition for his early training. He had already passed through 4 or 5 clubs before he signed for us. Perhaps a sistem if retrospective compensation could be applied in the UK?

[Interestedparty]

On 9 November 2017 at 00:22, TommyPowel said:

BUT THEN THE BOY IS STILL REGISTERED TO A CHAMPIONSHIP TEAM AND IF HE IS HAS GOOD AS HE FATHER SAYS HE WOULD BE ABLE TO MAKE THE CLUB PICK HIM

 

Yes but his dad probably doesn't rate your manager's tactics and might not be sure that Zak will be played in the right position or be allowed to take penalties and free kicks etc etc etc

[Interestedparty]

Re the funding of academies

If you go cat 4 (which is just running a 16s team upwards) then it's pretty much all paid for by the FA. It's not a bad route to go as it costs you next to nothing and you could take on the best released players from cat 1 or 2 clubs and inherit the benefit of all of their development etc at other clubs

Cat 3 then the funding covers 50 per cent ish of your costs

etc

Dont quote me on that but the basic idea is that the higher cat you choose to be the more you pay yourselves as a club

The lower category you are the more FA funding you get

A club like Burton Albion are cat 3  might spend 250k on their academy of which half is FA funded idiot actually will cost burton 125k per year ish

Mansfield are cat 4 so costs them nothing. They do run teams younger than 16 but they are run with kids paying subs etc and self funding  and  all their kids teams play in grassroots and futsal leagues. Maybe Zak should have signed for them.  Any club could go and watch any of their players and take them away for zero if they wanted though

burton only need to produce players valued 125k a year to break even

At the same time they would receive far less compensation (12k per year) if a bigger club took one of their players off them before they became a pro

so the little clubs can have players taken from them but their costs are a fraction and they receive a lot of funding so can't complain really over lower compensation payments

[RamNut]

20 minutes ago, Interestedparty said:

Re the funding of academies

If you go cat 4 (which is just running a 16s team upwards) then it's pretty much all paid for by the FA. It's not a bad route to go as it costs you next to nothing and you could take on the best released players from cat 1 or 2 clubs and inherit the benefit of all of their development etc at other clubs

Cat 3 then the funding covers 50 per cent ish of your costs

etc

Dont quote me on that but the basic idea is that the higher cat you choose to be the more you pay yourselves as a club

The lower category you are the more FA funding you get

A club like Burton Albion are cat 3  might spend 250k on their academy of which half is FA funded idiot actually will cost burton 125k per year ish

Mansfield are cat 4 so costs them nothing. They do run teams younger than 16 but they are run with kids paying subs etc and self funding  and  all their kids teams play in grassroots and futsal leagues. Maybe Zak should have signed for them.  Any club could go and watch any of their players and take them away for zero if they wanted though

burton only need to produce players valued 125k a year to break even

At the same time they would receive far less compensation (12k per year) if a bigger club took one of their players off them before they became a pro

so the little clubs can have players taken from them but their costs are a fraction and they receive a lot of funding so can't complain really over lower compensation payments

Thats interesting.

you might imagine that the situation was the other way round. Cat 4 academies make a lot of sense. the >16 development players are easier to secure and lower risk. 

For the u16s and u11s the FA clearly want to get them into the elite academies. The long term aim is to produce international players, but presumably they are not bothered if the kid comes through at Derby, man city, stoke, liverpool, villa or arsenal etc.

The F.A. would presumably want zak brunt to move to say Arsenal, and the stoke kid to move to liverpool instead of being lost to the elite academy system just because no-one would stump up the compensation fees. 

[Comrade 86]

24 minutes ago, Interestedparty said:

Yes but his dad probably doesn't rate your manager's tactics and might not be sure that Zak will be played in the right position or be allowed to take penalties and free kicks etc etc etc

Then why's he not said as much instead of blathering on about futsal and how his son, whom he signed to the academy, is being enslaved and held hostage? Load of old tosh. 

[AndyinLiverpool]

32 minutes ago, Interestedparty said:

Yes but his dad probably doesn't rate your manager's tactics and might not be sure that Zak will be played in the right position or be allowed to take penalties and free kicks etc etc etc

Kids should play out of position. Centre forwards should play as centre halves etc from time to time. Get into the minds of those they have to play against.

[RamNut]

33 minutes ago, Interestedparty said:

Yes but his dad probably doesn't rate your manager's tactics and might not be sure that Zak will be played in the right position or be allowed to take penalties and free kicks etc etc etc

Possibly.

some of it might be for immature reasons. But it could be the change of playing culture too.

it was noticeable how the u23s sat back and defended at home to forest instead playing of playing a more attacking game. And it cost them in the end.

[rynny]

7 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

Kids should play out of position. Centre forwards should play as centre halves etc from time to time. Get into the minds of those they have to play against.

100% agree. I have played in every position possible and it helped my reading of the game and understanding of what to expect from the opposition, what to look for and how to nullify their intentions. It is also a main reason that I think strikers should do a lot of work with defenders and vice versa.

[Hucknall Ram]

2 minutes ago, rynny said:

I have played in every position possible 

I know we was short of players at Darley Bridge Inn

[cheron85]

39 minutes ago, Interestedparty said:

Yes but his dad probably doesn't rate your manager's tactics and might not be sure that Zak will be played in the right position or be allowed to take penalties and free kicks etc etc etc

Then it's definitely a case of the pair of them being a bit above themselves - If he was good enough he'd be played in the 'right position' and would be allowed to take set pieces - If he isn't good enough he won't get that chance - If he is as dedicated as he claims he is then he'd be doing a Beckham and spending every waking hour practicing his crossing and free kick taking to make sure he was the best

Also how the hell does a 15 yr old and his dad know better what his position should be than professional football coaches? There's a difference between where a kid WANTS to play and where he might be best playing - And again - It comes down to quality - If he's the best at the position he wants to play in the chances are he'll play there - If he's not good enough the chances are they'll try to find him a position he is good enough to play

Happens to Pros as much as kids - Forsyth came to us as a LM and is now an established LB - Wisdom has stated over the years his desire to play CB and yet he gets consistently picked at RB - Hanson started out as a CB and I'm pretty sure he's counted as a CM now

I mean if we go much further afield Gareth Bale was a LB when he joined Spurs and I'm pretty sure it wasn't him clamouring to be a Winger (reckon he was happy just to play) - Coaches and a Manager decided he was better suited to play as a winger and he's now one of the best AMs in the world

[rynny]

12 minutes ago, Hucknall Ram said:

I know we was short of players at Darley Bridge Inn

I actually only played centre mid for you lot, nice to have regular role. 

[ramblur]

4 hours ago, rynny said:

I actually only played centre mid for you lot, nice to have regular role. 

So did I.Didn't get forward much,though,especially when it was my round

[RamNut]

A bit more research on zak brunt and his family:

He has twin brothers who are four years older. Both suffer from cerebral palsy and hydrocephalus as well as having sight and speech problems after having been born 14 weeks early.The twins apparently suffered brain bleeds at birth and spent months in hospitals battling bronchitis and undergoing surgery to repair brain damage caused by strokes. Both have limited mobility and suffer fits.

Maybe its easier to understand that the parents have quite a lot of other pressures and could be forgiven for over investing a lot of hope in Zak - the youngest of four boys.

 

[GboroRam]

14 minutes ago, RamNut said:

A bit more research on zak brunt and his family:

He has twin brothers who are four years older. Both suffer from cerebral palsy and hydrocephalus as well as having sight and speech problems after having been born 14 weeks early.The twins apparently suffered brain bleeds at birth and spent months in hospitals battling bronchitis and undergoing surgery to repair brain damage caused by strokes. Both have limited mobility and suffer fits.

Maybe its easier to understand that the parents have quite a lot of other pressures and could be forgiven for over investing a lot of hope in Zak - the youngest of four boys.

 

However understandable it is, it doesn't mean we should support it. I can sympathise but I can't agree with this kid's dad.

[RamNut]

The fall out was apparently over the fact that zak played for england at futsal. Derby were not happy and allegedly 'benched' him for a cup final. It seems to unravelled from there.

all a bit silly if true.

 

[Philmycock]

1 minute ago, RamNut said:

The fall out was apparently over the fact that zak played for england at futsal. Derby were not happy and allegedly 'benched' him for a cup final. It seems to unravelled from there.

all a bit silly if true.

 

Get over him