FFP

[RamNut]

I think it is apparent that gary is working to a strict budget. Including wages.

if he wants one in, then one has to go out probably because of the wages.

sam seemed blase about the budget and used to refer to the benefit of mel's backing, and seemed to rely on him he picking up the tab. Its no bad thing to have a stricter budget which makes the manager think hard about the choices he is making.

i think they were surprised to find that they were contractually obliged to offer new deals to baird and bent, and that this was also a factor in the fall out with sam rush, but they denied that there had been any financial surprises or that we were sailing closer to the wind than they had imagined. They also denied that outgoing transfer deals with watford, middlesbro etc involved writing off future payments on players previouly signed, and said that it was pure coincidence that we had done deals with the same clubs again.

the ipro deal was a predictable failure by a start up company. Clearly mel was angry about that. Another nail in Sam's coffin. For me Sam was always out of his depth and got through with bluster and b.s. He was an agent. Some people thought he was a nice guy but he had no real training for running the show and he seemed to make errors. He was a strange appointment. Clearly mel felt he was negligent in his duties. 

 

[VulcanRam]

5 hours ago, Bris Vegas said:

I wish Mel never came on board.

Obviously he hasn't done it on purpose, but his reckless spending ruined the best team we've had since the Jim Smith days and set us back about five years in the process.

We were better off with GSE and Nigel Clough guiding the ship.

That's a fair point. I thought GSE did an excellent, if underrated job, of picking up the mess of the Sleightholme era and the 07/08 debacle and really steadied us before putting us on a path of slow and steady growth. The time was probably right for Nigel to go and a better coach to try to get us promoted, and it nearly worked. But at that time you felt the club was moving forward in an identifiable way and could relate to it. Sure, for some it wasn't happening quickly enough, but we all knew where we stood.

For all Mel's efforts, you can't say that now, but hopefully if GR is allowed the time we can get back to stability and away from the sense of chaos. 

  

[Anag Ram]

5 hours ago, Bris Vegas said:

I wish Mel never came on board.

Obviously he hasn't done it on purpose, but his reckless spending ruined the best team we've had since the Jim Smith days and set us back about five years in the process.

We were better off with GSE and Nigel Clough guiding the ship.

I agree that the team has rather lost its way, especially in terms of effort and commitment, but that's fixed more easily than financial woes. 

What we need to build is a club that players really want to join, which recent transfer windows have shown hasn't always been the case.

[Curtains]

Easy .

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/financial-fair-play-actually-impact-12408433

[Sparkle]

11 minutes ago, VulcanRam said:

That's a fair point. I thought GSE did an excellent, if underrated job, of picking up the mess of the Sleightholme era and the 07/08 debacle and really steadied us before putting us on a path of slow and steady growth. The time was probably right for Nigel to go and a better coach to try to get us promoted, and it nearly worked. But at that time you felt the club was moving forward in an identifiable way and could relate to it. Sure, for some it wasn't happening quickly enough, but we all knew where we stood.

For all Mel's efforts, you can't say that now, but hopefully if GR is allowed the time we can get back to stability and away from the sense of chaos. 

  

Yes but GSE wanted to sell and by now we would be under mysterious Chinese tai khazakstan mafia arms dealers possibly so I think a local supporter with dosh is preferable! 

[VulcanRam]

Just now, Sparkle said:

Yes but GSE wanted to sell and by now we would be under mysterious Chinese tai khazakstan mafia arms dealers possibly so I think a local supporter with dosh is preferable! 

totally agree!

 

[VulcanRam]

or even worse SISU - Keith et al were trying to get them involved, they didn't and took over Coventry and we all know what's happened there.

Now that's what you call dodging a bullet. 

[Gritstone Ram]

I wonder if Gary is keeping a bit in reserve knowing that players contracts will be up at the end of the season and he will probably be able to sign some players next season so keep a bit of dosh for then.

He just needs to keep his job.

[Mafiabob]

15 minutes ago, Sparkle said:

Yes but GSE wanted to sell and by now we would be under mysterious Chinese tai khazakstan mafia arms dealers possibly so I think a local supporter with dosh is preferable! 

Or we could be under foreign ownership that kept us stable and not chopping and changing managers. 

I really don't buy this "he's local" so he must be ok lark. 

 

[toddy]

3 minutes ago, Mafiabob said:

Or we could be under foreign ownership that kept us stable and not chopping and changing managers. 

I really don't buy this "he's local" so he must be ok lark. 

 

 Correct!

 Just ask Chelsea or Man city fans, sure they wish they were locally owned!

[r4derby]

1 hour ago, sage said:

We got to Wembley under GSE

You are correct. My post was less about Mel good, GSE bad. As another poster has said, a balance of the two would be perfect. If/when we do finally reach the Prem, I'm happy we have an owner who will not hold back in spending money for the club. 

I'm happy with us competing every season, more so than early GSE years

[gfs1ram]

44 minutes ago, r4derby said:

You are correct. My post was less about Mel good, GSE bad. As another poster has said, a balance of the two would be perfect. If/when we do finally reach the Prem, I'm happy we have an owner who will not hold back in spending money for the club. 

I'm happy with us competing every season, more so than early GSE years

Yes but look at the dross that we had in the early GSE years that Clough had to deal with.

Sadly we are now back in almost that same position - too many overpaid deadwood players on the books.

[r4derby]

13 minutes ago, gfs1ram said:

Yes but look at the dross that we had in the early GSE years that Clough had to deal with.

Sadly we are now back in almost that same position - too many overpaid deadwood players on the books.

Indeed. But then I'm not sure the players we have here are 'deadwood'. There's a consensus opinion it seems that they're not good enough to get us promoted after several failed attempts. They're bottlejobs and therefore rubbish.

But I don't think our squad is that bad at all. There's a mental hurdle that this club needs to get past, that includes players performing consistently and fans not expecting the earth.

[Bwash_Ram]

We are nowhere near falling fowl of ffp rules. Even in our most profligate year, we were within the yearly average (just about)

[G STAR RAM]

58 minutes ago, Bwash_Ram said:

We are nowhere near falling fowl of ffp rules. Even in our most profligate year, we were within the yearly average (just about)

How do you know this?

[Bris Vegas]

8 hours ago, sage said:

This post is worth a 200 page thread. Not sure I comletely agree but what a debate we could have.

Off the field Mel has done a great job. But on it, it has been a disaster.

We had a 'Derby Way' and it was before he even arrived. We had a familiar playing style, specific players coming in to do specific roles and from what I gather a family feel about the general playing squad.

He ruined that by sanctioning big-money panic buys, ridiculously raising the bar in terms of wages and driving a wedge through the aforementioned general family feel among the squad.

Players didn't fit the system in place, wages spiralled out of control, the managerial appointments contradicted statements regarding a 'Derby Way' and now the average age of the first-team is much higher.

Now we've let young players with potential like Hendrick, Hughes and Ince leave and they've been replaced with ageing, high-wage players who have only aided in helping us spiral further out of control and away from the 'Derby Way'.

It's such a shame what has happened to this club since Mel came in. 

We were praised up and down the country for the way we reached the playoff final under Mac, and there seemed to be many non-Derby fans who felt sorry for us in the way we lost that game to an overspending, bloated QPR side.

Since then we've basically become like that QPR side. Yet worse on the field.

[sage]

9 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

Off the field Mel has done a great job. But on it, it has been a disaster.

We had a 'Derby Way' and it was before he even arrived. We had a familiar playing style, specific players coming in to do specific roles and from what I gather a family feel about the general playing squad.

He ruined that by sanctioning big-money panic buys, ridiculously raising the bar in terms of wages and driving a wedge through the aforementioned general family feel among the squad.

Players didn't fit the system in place, wages spiralled out of control, the managerial appointments contradicted statements regarding a 'Derby Way' and now the average age of the first-team is much higher.

Now we've let young players with potential like Hendrick, Hughes and Ince leave and they've been replaced with ageing, high-wage players who have only aided in helping us spiral further out of control and away from the 'Derby Way'.

It's such a shame what has happened to this club since Mel came in. 

We were praised up and down the country for the way we reached the playoff final under Mac, and there seemed to be many non-Derby fans who felt sorry for us in the way we lost that game to an overspending, bloated QPR side.

Since then we've basically become like that QPR side. Yet worse on the field.

I agree with much of this. How much you can blame on Mel is debatable. Rush was in charge of transfers. Whilst I wouldn't have sacked him, Maclaren didnt handle the Newcastle speculation well.

The January 2015 transfer window was when it all started to go wrong. 

I think Mel has realised where it went wrong however it is difficult to candidly admit the errors made when several players who came in under erroneous recruitment are still at the club. 

[Mistaram]

14 hours ago, Bris Vegas said:

I wish Mel never came on board.

Obviously he hasn't done it on purpose, but his reckless spending ruined the best team we've had since the Jim Smith days and set us back about five years in the process.

We were better off with GSE and Nigel Clough guiding the ship.

This is either a wind up or your brain dead

[Gritstone Ram]

20 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

Off the field Mel has done a great job. But on it, it has been a disaster.

We had a 'Derby Way' and it was before he even arrived. We had a familiar playing style, specific players coming in to do specific roles and from what I gather a family feel about the general playing squad.

He ruined that by sanctioning big-money panic buys, ridiculously raising the bar in terms of wages and driving a wedge through the aforementioned general family feel among the squad.

Players didn't fit the system in place, wages spiralled out of control, the managerial appointments contradicted statements regarding a 'Derby Way' and now the average age of the first-team is much higher.

Now we've let young players with potential like Hendrick, Hughes and Ince leave and they've been replaced with ageing, high-wage players who have only aided in helping us spiral further out of control and away from the 'Derby Way'.

It's such a shame what has happened to this club since Mel came in. 

We were praised up and down the country for the way we reached the playoff final under Mac, and there seemed to be many non-Derby fans who felt sorry for us in the way we lost that game to an overspending, bloated QPR side.

Since then we've basically become like that QPR side. Yet worse on the field.

Mac 1 started off securing the signing if George Thorne what went wrong was he got injured long term. He never got a proper replacement in and I would say the rest is history. 

When Darren Bent came in that was the start of the end for the young hungry team. Also the football took a turn for the worse and we tried to control games more but this became very boring because we hadn't got the quality to keep the ball. Ince too came in who I didn't rate at first but he proved me wrong in the end. The panic buying from then onwards has been heart breaking. I think Mel has put too much faith in people who haven't got the clubs best interests ay heart. 

I think people who have had the clubs best interests at heart are Nigel Clough and Gary Rowett. Steve McClaren wanted to do well but I don't think he had the clubs best interests when he could have quashed the Newcastle rumours. 

[jono]

14 hours ago, Bris Vegas said:

I wish Mel never came on board.

Obviously he hasn't done it on purpose, but his reckless spending ruined the best team we've had since the Jim Smith days and set us back about five years in the process.

We were better off with GSE and Nigel Clough guiding the ship.

Better off as a mid table, breaking even championship club ? And structured to remain so for ever more ?

not knocking GSE or Nigel in any sense. I also like to see sums add up and loath financial shenanigans, over spending bloated egos et al 

But .. Having an ambitious owner who wants us to be better by gambling his own money. THis can't be wrong.  surely a dream is better than mediocrity ? Especially as the dream isn't being funded by debt