Lack of loans

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

2 hours ago, 1of4 said:

Why are we missing Rush. Wasn't it rumoured that we only looked at players who's agents had a connection with Rush. If this was the case. Now that he's gone wont the club be looking at a wider range of players.

A wide range of players which haven't arrived!

[ramit]

i would rather we play our young players than get loan players.  Yes the premier teams have better young players but ours will not reach their potential if they don't get thrown in the deep end.

Remember when Southampton went down to league 1 and were so broke they had to play their youngsters in most positions.  Look at them now.

[sage]

17 minutes ago, ramit said:

i would rather we play our young players than get loan players.  Yes the premier teams have better young players but ours will not reach their potential if they don't get thrown in the deep end.

Remember when Southampton went down to league 1 and were so broke they had to play their youngsters in most positions.  Look at them now.

Southampton have an enormous catchment area. Their academy is excellent but they are the biggest team for dozens and dozens of miles. 

 

[ramit]

Just now, sage said:

Southampton have an enormous catchment area. Their academy is excellent but they are the biggest team for dozens and dozens of miles. 

 

Not fair, bringing facts into the discussion

i'll go sulk now

[sage]

10 minutes ago, ramit said:

Not fair, bringing facts into the discussion

i'll go sulk now

Goodnight Mr Trump  

[Jourdan]

5 hours ago, sage said:

That's the issue. Rowett may want say Ryan Kent but he may not be in a future managers plans. If you have 3 managers a season, where is the stability/security.

Unless you are joining Arsenal, any club you join will have that uncertainty hanging over them.

It's professional football. As a player, you understand that managerial changes can and will happen. For better and for worse.

When you join a club on loan, you don't really account for it and even if you did, you'd back yourself to get a chance and impress under any manager, surely?

[sage]

1 minute ago, Jourdan said:

Unless you are joining Arsenal, any club you join will have that uncertainty hanging over them.

It's professional football. As a player, you understand that managerial changes can and will happen. For better and for worse.

When you join a club on loan, you don't really account for it and even if you did, you'd back yourself to get a chance and impress under any manager, surely?

I think the parent club would have the bigger issue.

[ramit]

10 minutes ago, sage said:

Goodnight Mr Trump  

My God you are ruthless

That's kinda sexy

[sage]

2 minutes ago, ramit said:

My God you are ruthless

That's kinda sexy

Helllllppppppppppppp

[Van der MoodHoover]

10 hours ago, sage said:

Southampton have an enormous catchment area. Their academy is excellent but they are the biggest team for dozens and dozens of miles. 

 

Draw a 25 mile radius circle round Southampton and see what there is.....

- more or less half is water

- then another chunk is the New Forest. Handy if you're recruiting ponies and badgers.

- then a chunk of countryside where the average age is about 70.

Then you hit Bournemouth and Portsmouth. 

They do look to have a sprinkling of youth to supplement their buying policy. They also have a policy of foreign managers who can introduce new contacts.

Thought I'd read somewhere that rowett had outlined his thinking on squad shape and it included a few (2 or 3) promoted up from u23s, couple of loans some new ins and a proportion of current squad. Maybe I was getting mixed up with some posters views.

[sage]

32 minutes ago, HantsRam said:

Draw a 25 mile radius circle round Southampton and see what there is.....

- more or less half is water

- then another chunk is the New Forest. Handy if you're recruiting ponies and badgers.

- then a chunk of countryside where the average age is about 70.

Then you hit Bournemouth and Portsmouth. 

They do look to have a sprinkling of youth to supplement their buying policy. They also have a policy of foreign managers who can introduce new contacts.

Thought I'd read somewhere that rowett had outlined his thinking on squad shape and it included a few (2 or 3) promoted up from u23s, couple of loans some new ins and a proportion of current squad. Maybe I was getting mixed up with some posters views.

Go in each direction and find a bigger club over the last 10-20 years.

Look at the players they have produced and where they went to school.

Walcott - Berkshjre nr Reading

Oxlade-Chamberlain - Portsmouth

Gareth Bale - Cardiff

 

 

[Animal is a Ram]

There's going to be fewer loans around until this week or next, because teams are still working out who they do and don't want.

Other than Chelsea, who have about three matchday 18s on loan and 9 men on the pitch..

[Van der MoodHoover]

Just now, sage said:

Go in each direction and find a bigger club over the last 10-20 years.

Look at the players they have produced and where they went to school.

Walcott - Berkshjre nr Reading

Oxlade-Chamberlain - Portsmouth

Gareth Bale - Cardiff

 

 

Cardiff is 90 miles from Southampton. Birmingham villa wolves would be as close. 

Point is that the area might be large but the population not so. There is no reason that derby,  with a smaller geographical reach,  but higher population density,  shouldn't have as good a chance of finding gems.

Now if they are not doing so, that begs the question of why? Forest seem to be able to on a more consistent basis. 

[Animal is a Ram]

4 minutes ago, HantsRam said:

Cardiff is 90 miles from Southampton. Birmingham villa wolves would be as close. 

Point is that the area might be large but the population not so. There is no reason that derby,  with a smaller geographical reach,  but higher population density,  shouldn't have as good a chance of finding gems.

Now if they are not doing so, that begs the question of why? Forest seem to be able to on a more consistent basis. 

Think this is more to do with said young players getting opportunities to break into the first team.

Derby has a club does not (yet?) have the mentality of giving youth the chance - whether that's a fault of a much lauded academy and training facility, or the expectation of promotion season on season pushing managers towards buying 'proven talent, is up for debate.

[Van der MoodHoover]

Just now, Animal is a Ram said:

Think this is more to do with said young players getting opportunities to break into the first team.

Derby has a club does not (yet?) have the mentality of giving youth the chance - whether that's a fault of a much lauded academy and training facility, or the expectation of promotion season on season pushing managers towards buying 'proven talent, is up for debate.

Basis of a good debate. Mel should be writing it into gr objectives. 

- I want xx points 

- I want football that generates attendances of yy thousand

- I want you to spend no more than zz m on transfers 

- I want n players from the academy to be brought into the first team squad for next season.

[sage]

On 13/08/2017 at 00:31, sage said:

It seems virtually every other championship team has managed to pick up a loan or two despite us being interested in at least 4 loan players.

Is this because bigger clubs don't see us as being a stable place to send a promising young player for a year?

Well we picked up Winnall on loan in the end. Though this was more of a financial restriction player swap.

We didn't end up with any of the 5 or 6 young Prem players we were linked with for a loan.

Whilst as Mel made clear at the Silk Mill Forum this is getting pricier, we did agree terms with at least 2 clubs and the player chose to go elsewhere.

Hopefully a year of stability in terms of manager and finance will mean we are better placed next year.

[Sparkle]

It has become very apparent that taking someone on loan is getting extremely expensive what with the loan fee the players wages and nowadays they want and get pay rises with guaranteed playing time plus agent fees etc so it could be asked if you are getting real value especially if you get a dud? With the swap of winnall for Butterfield I suspect that we are saving money (as well as someone who may contribute) I believe winnall trebled his wages when he went from Barnsley to sheff Wednesday ending up on £18,000 per week, I suspect Butterfield was on a fair bit more?

[JAT]

Personally I'm glad we're not doing many loan deals now. From what I'm seeing the fees being demanded are ridiculous. You're better off signing a permanent player. 

[VulcanRam]

Not overly bothered. Very few young Premier League youngsters have made a big difference when they've been with us. Jordan Ibe did. But the likes of Adam Smith and Barry Bannan weakened us although they went on to have successful careers elsewhere.

Can't see that Derby is that attractive a proposition tbh. Mid table, a merry-go-round of managers, not great atmosphere and fans quicker to turn than sour milk.

Also, as others have pointed out, it's no longer the cheap option unless you can do a swap as we did. Look at the money spent on Gallagher and then on Winnall. I know who got the better deal out of those. And it's not Birmingham.

[Rich84]

13 hours ago, Sparkle said:

It has become very apparent that taking someone on loan is getting extremely expensive what with the loan fee the players wages and nowadays they want and get pay rises with guaranteed playing time plus agent fees etc so it could be asked if you are getting real value especially if you get a dud? With the swap of winnall for Butterfield I suspect that we are saving money (as well as someone who may contribute) I believe winnall trebled his wages when he went from Barnsley to sheff Wednesday ending up on £18,000 per week, I suspect Butterfield was on a fair bit more?

I wondered about this, and wouldn't be surprised if each club just carried on paying their own player, I wouldn't be happy to be a Wendy fan if they are paying lots more for a player that has lost his mojo!

If we are paying our own, then at least we gain a player that GR thinks will be more use to us in the style he wants to play