v TSG 1899 Hoffenheim Match Thread

[Animal is a Ram]

You could just tell that Hoffenheim were a step above us, but also a step behind us in preseason terms.

That back 6 looks about nailed on to me. Right balance of pace, passing and power. Forsyth did look like a player still finding his way back in after a long time, however.

Every position ahead of them, though, is up for grabs. That said, we do have genuine options - we looked about as comfortable in the 4-3-3 as the 4-2-3-1.

Too many similar players in that forward line. Weimann, Russell, Anya and Bennett are all about the same thing, lots of pace (and power in Bennett's case), but little.. guile? Definitely need an Ince-a-like, but I have faith that Gary has a few in mind. Would have been nice to get them in a little earlier, but that's football.

Would be nice if said signing can take penalties too. First instinct said that was a good save from the 'keeper, but need to be putting penalties away.

Plenty to be positive about. We're creating the chances, and it would be worrying if we weren't. I'd rate preseason as a solid 7/10. I'm sure Gary will have learnt plenty.

[RamsFan10]

Carson - 8, didn't do anything wrong, made some good saves

Wisdom - 7 - looked shaky first 10, didn't put a foot wrong afterwards.

Keogh - 8 - looked very good, solid when he doesn't have to cover right back and centre back.

Davies - 7 - decent performance

Forsyth - 6 - was confused at halftime by everyone saying he was playing well, thought he was very poor first half, played well second. 

Huddlestone - 8 - same old 

Butterfield + Johnson - 5 - both seemed anonymous, Johnson put the pen at a good height for the keeper. 

Russell - 4 - highlight was falling over for the pen, lost it almost every time he got it, wasteful.

Weimann - 5 - marginally better than Russell 

Martin - 5.5 - didn't have anyone near him most of the game, might have something to do with Hoffenheim being quite decent. 

Subs: 

Bryson - 6 - linked play up, got nearer to martin, should start ahead go Butterfield imo 

Nugent - 5.5 - ran at the back line, didn't do much (wasn't on long)

Bennett - 5 - didn't do much again not on long, had a nice run but scuffed his shot.

Anya - 5 - got in behind on a few occasions, rarely got a cross in.

Vydra - 6 - lively, nice finish, hope he starts behind martin on friday. 

 

Hoping for at least one winger in and one winger out. Lawrence and a loan would be ideal or we could be looking at a mid table finish. Solid at the back but we lack fire power from out wide. Much prefer 4231 also, gets people near Martin. 

I'd go Carson, Wisdom, Keogh, Davies, Forsyth, Huddlestone, Bryson, *New Winger*, Vydra , Weimann, Martin on friday, 4231 

[Ninos]

1 hour ago, jono said:

It seems to me to be a perennial problem for us. We have now sorted out the defence and deep midfield.  Much more balanced strong and tall ...with Fozzy and Wisdom back. Hudds gives the midfield some needed poise, strength and passing range.  At this level the front line will score,  but the AM link is, to my mind missing - Is it Bryson or Johnson ? A top drawer wide player would help of course, How do we prevent Martin being isolated ? No matter how good his link up / holding ability is, there has to be someone close enough to him and the middle of the park so that we are dangerous from the half way line to the edge of the box. 

1000% agree jono.

Now ill add the controversial truth: Butters must be the worst midfielder in the division in that he never does nowt, and it appears that maybe Rowett has finally figured this out. Weimann is also a disaster on legs it's like he doesn't understand how to play football and it's just panicky running around at pace. Rowett must see this (unfortunately Mason didn't play too smart today either) and Martin was diabolically bad near the goal too but he's never showed well against good teams, domestically or internationally. You can blame poor link up but he had easy chances and botched em big time. Nugent more lively but shockingly wasteful. Vydra showed us in just a few mins how to punish defences like a champ.

Take those three out and replace with a new attacking centre mid a new winger and a new striker and we are set: we should get that blonde kid, will Hughes from Watford, Ince Ojo or Lawrence, and promote the deadly battering ram which is  ooo la la Zanzala and all will be well. O wait ...

[TommyPowell]

1 hour ago, Alex W said:

As many others have suggested we're a top winger or two away from being standouts at the moment, we just don't have those players. Losing Ince is massive and there is thus  far no replacement. We were quite content to sell Weimann for 2m, going into the season with him as a starter isn't the permanent plan I'm sure. 

 

Russell took his man on once and did well but he's not reliable enough. Weimann is a squad player, does the basics well and he's very unselfish but we have no top winger. It's no surprise to see Lawrence/Jota/Ojo banded about, I suspect we'll have one in before Friday. Just a feeling on that, no ITK magic. 

 

Out entire philosophy is now balls over the top and wide players slipped through on through balls while countering. If we have an intention of promotion this year we need players who can get through and make something happen, as of now we don't have anywhere near enough of that magic. Rowett will sort it. 

 

1 hour ago, Alex W said:

As many others have suggested we're a top winger or two away from being standouts at the moment, we just don't have those players. Losing Ince is massive and there is thus  far no replacement. We were quite content to sell Weimann for 2m, going into the season with him as a starter isn't the permanent plan I'm sure. 

 

Russell took his man on once and did well but he's not reliable enough. Weimann is a squad player, does the basics well and he's very unselfish but we have no top winger. It's no surprise to see Lawrence/Jota/Ojo banded about, I suspect we'll have one in before Friday. Just a feeling on that, no ITK magic. 

 

Out entire philosophy is now balls over the top and wide players slipped through on through balls while countering. If we have an intention of promotion this year we need players who can get through and make something happen, as of now we don't have anywhere near enough of that magic. Rowett will sort it. 

To be fair it wasnt Rowett who agreed the 2 million for Wiemann he seems lacking in confidence he needs a run of games

 

 

[sage]

11 minutes ago, RamsFan10 said:

Carson - 8, didn't do anything wrong, made some good saves

Wisdom - 7 - looked shaky first 10, didn't put a foot wrong afterwards.

Keogh - 8 - looked very good, solid when he doesn't have to cover right back and centre back.

Davies - 7 - decent performance

Forsyth - 6 - was confused at halftime by everyone saying he was playing well, thought he was very poor first half, played well second. 

Huddlestone - 8 - same old 

Butterfield + Johnson - 5 - both seemed anonymous, Johnson put the pen at a good height for the keeper. 

Russell - 4 - highlight was falling over for the pen, lost it almost every time he got it, wasteful.

Weimann - 5 - marginally better than Russell 

Martin - 5.5 - didn't have anyone near him most of the game, might have something to do with Hoffenheim being quite decent. 

Subs: 

Bryson - 6 - linked play up, got nearer to martin, should start ahead go Butterfield imo 

Nugent - 5.5 - ran at the back line, didn't do much (wasn't on long)

Bennett - 5 - didn't do much again not on long, had a nice run but scuffed his shot.

Anya - 5 - got in behind on a few occasions, rarely got a cross in.

Vydra - 6 - lively, nice finish, hope he starts behind martin on friday. 

 

Hoping for at least one winger in and one winger out. Lawrence and a loan would be ideal or we could be looking at a mid table finish. Solid at the back but we lack fire power from out wide. Much prefer 4231 also, gets people near Martin. 

I'd go Carson, Wisdom, Keogh, Davies, Forsyth, Huddlestone, Bryson, *New Winger*, Vydra , Weimann, Martin on friday, 4231 

So apart from cleverly winning the penalty, the run and cross that ended up with Martin's shot being cleared off the line, the run that set up Wisdom's good cross and unluckily having a shot just deflected over the bar he did nothing.

He didn't have a great game but was clearly better than Weimann. I guess the forum has just moved on to Russell from Keogh.

[Derby blood]

9 minutes ago, Ninos said:

1000% agree jono.

Now ill add the controversial truth: Butters must be the worst midfielder in the division in that he never does nowt, and it appears that maybe Rowett has finally figured this out. Weimann is also a disaster on legs it's like he doesn't understand how to play football and it's just panicky running around at pace. Rowett must see this (unfortunately Mason didn't play too smart today either) and Martin was diabolically bad near the goal too but he's never showed well against good teams, domestically or internationally. You can blame poor link up but he had easy chances and botched em big time. Nugent more lively but shockingly wasteful. Vydra showed us in just a few mins how to punish defences like a champ.

Take those three out and replace with a new attacking centre mid a new winger and a new striker and we are set: we should get that blonde kid, will Hughes from Watford, Ince Ojo or Lawrence, and promote the deadly battering ram which is  ooo la la Zanzala and all will be well. O wait ...

Jesus you really do not like certain players, at this level Martin is a class player and will probably score the winner on Friday night, then go on to score another 20 goals after that, which he has done more than a few times in his career so far, but you will never rate him, enjoy the season Ninos, and hopefully we will be celebrating promotion to Premiership together.

[RamsFan10]

2 minutes ago, sage said:

So apart from cleverly winning the penalty, the run and cross that ended up with Martin's shot being cleared off the line, the run that set up Wisdom's good cross and unluckily having a shot just deflected over the bar he did nothing.

He didn't have a great game but was clearly better than Weimann. I guess the forum has just moved on to Russell from Keogh.

Credited him for the penalty, not sure what else you think he did, apart from put the ball behind Martin constantly or get tackled within 3 seconds of picking the ball up every time. Oh i forgot missing from 6 yards and blazing it over the bar from 10 yards in the second half. He was energetically wasteful at best. Not that i think Weimann is too much better, rate Weimann much more down the middle in all fairness. Russell has been average at best for the last 2 years imo. 

As for the scapegoating, its preseason. I'd question what games you'd been watching if you didn't think Russell had had a poor preseason. But thats all it is. Its a fans forum at the end of the day, where players are criticised or praised.

Perhaps people saying Russell was poor is actually a reflection of the fact he played poorly, rather than a secret agreement between the members of this board to scapegoat him. 

[RamsFan10]

28 minutes ago, RamsFan10 said:

 

 

[RamsFan10]

1 minute ago, RamsFan10 said:

 

Didn't mean to quote that, all that said thought today was a good team performance. Don't see us letting many in this year.

[sage]

1 minute ago, RamsFan10 said:

Credited him for the penalty, not sure what else you think he did, apart from put the ball behind Martin constantly or get tackled within 3 seconds of picking the ball up every time. Oh i forgot missing from 6 yards and blazing it over the bar from 10 yards in the second half. He was energetically wasteful at best. Not that i think Weimann is too much better, rate Weimann much more down the middle in all fairness. Russell has been average at best for the last 2 years imo. 

As for the scapegoating, its preseason. I'd question what games you'd been watching if you didn't think Russell had had a poor preseason. But thats all it is. Its a fans forum at the end of the day, where players are criticised or praised.

Perhaps people saying Russell was poor is actually a reflection of the fact he played poorly, rather than a secret agreement between the members of this board to scapegoat him. 

So he didn't set up Martin then? and 'blazing over ' was in fact deflected. Hence the corner. Missing from 6 yards? I see you don't mentio weimann missing a headed sitter. Your credit for the penalty was faint praise indeed.Twisting and omitting facts.

He hasn't been great in pre-season but was better than Weimann today. Everyone has their opinions but little bandwagons form about certain players, Even McGovern had it when we were winning titles.

[Alph]

I didn't see anything positive about Wiemann. A lot on here seemed to think he did ok. I thought he was poor even considering the opponent

I'd say Russell was poor but this time considering the opponent i thought he did ok.

Also Curtis Davies was a bit meh. Again I respect the level of Hoffenheim but some of his play was dodgy under no pressure. Wisdom too had some early silliness he thankfully stopped.

I think there's things you don't expect when you play a team as good as them such as winning, stopping them opening you up with ease on occasion. The overall effort was pretty much as good as expected.

I do hope however that there's a midfielder or two that breaks rank on Friday. They just love being behind that ball. It does my nut in. Tom Huddlestone doesn't need his hands holding. You don't all need to be that deep lying director. Break the opponents midfield and go find a hole to sit in ffs. Go say hi to Martin. There's no drive from that middle. It takes ages for them to get into support. 

Hoffenheim were faster, stronger, taller, blonder blah blah etc etc. I get that. But look how they would have 4,5 players ahead of the ball holder. The wide players tucked in for the full backs to overlap. 

When was the last time we broke rank like that? An overlap? 5 players ahead of the ball and a CM in full support of a striker? I bet it was when Hendrick was here.

I guess now it's confirmation of the switch to counter attacking side. Which makes me ask why have 3 central midfielders and Martin on his own. With our wingers? Im thinking it's going to be a hard graft to score goals again. 

Even though we competed well with a European level team on the whole I still think there's issues that you could see will show themselves in the coming months. 

Think we'll smash Sunderland though. They look vvank

[RamsFan10]

7 minutes ago, sage said:

So he didn't set up Martin then? and 'blazing over ' was in fact deflected. Hence the corner. Missing from 6 yards? I see you don't mentio weimann missing a headed sitter. Your credit for the penalty was faint praise indeed.Twisting and omitting facts.

He hasn't been great in pre-season but was better than Weimann today. Everyone has their opinions but little bandwagons form about certain players, Even McGovern had it when we were winning titles.

You could see Russell today throw his hands up several times in frustration, imo Weimann actually linked up with Martin on a couple of occasions where as Russell seemed sloppy in possession. Its minor differences in opinion i guess, but i'd be concerned if we didn't manage to sign anyone and we were stuck with Russell and Weimann as our wide options until January. 

[DEL]

46 minutes ago, RamsFan10 said:

Russell - 4 - highlight was falling over for the pen, lost it almost every time he got it, wasteful.

Weimann - 5 - marginally better than Russell

That's completely rubbish. Russell was better than Weimann no question about it. 

[sage]

7 minutes ago, RamsFan10 said:

You could see Russell today throw his hands up several times in frustration, imo Weimann actually linked up with Martin on a couple of occasions where as Russell seemed sloppy in possession. Its minor differences in opinion i guess, but i'd be concerned if we didn't manage to sign anyone and we were stuck with Russell and Weimann as our wide options until January. 

Yes. Lawrence for Weimann and James for Johnson and you have a top 6 team.

[RamsFan10]

17 minutes ago, Derby_EnglandLoyal said:

That's completely rubbish. Russell was better than Weimann no question about it. 

As I said, must just be opinion. Neither really produced much, but I thought Weimann was involved in build up more often. Russell lost possession far to often. 

[RamsFan10]

19 minutes ago, sage said:

Yes. Lawrence for Weimann and James for Johnson and you have a top 6 team.

You'd want Johnson out the side? Didn't think he produced much today but still think he's a very good championship player, I remember his first few appearance after he signed in particuLr. Looked good in the Germany away game 

[sage]

6 minutes ago, RamsFan10 said:

You'd want Johnson out the side? Didn't think he produced much today but still think he's a very good championship player, I remember his first few appearance after he signed. Looked good in the Germany away game 

Yes i remember his first few appearances. They were 2 years ago.

He has no pace, can't pass or dribble, is a poor tackler and has survived due to his size in a small team. 

Now we have Huddlestone, Wisdom, Martin and Forsyth back, he is surplus to requirements IMO.

For someone who lambasts wingers for losing possession doesn't Johnson's inept passing drive you mad?

[RamsFan10]

9 minutes ago, sage said:

Yes i remember his first few appearances. They were 2 years ago.

He has no pace, can't pass or dribble, is a poor tackler and has survived due to his size in a small team. 

Now we have Huddlestone, Wisdom, Martin and Forsyth back, he is surplus to requirements IMO.

For someone who lambasts wingers for losing possession doesn't Johnson's inept passing drive you mad?

Butterfield and Johnson can both be wasteful in possession, made even more clear by them playing next to Huddlestone these days. From what we've got in the middle, Johnson Butterfield and Bryson, I think Johnson offers more going forward, has a decent shot on him. In all fairness so does Butterfield, but I feel like the game often passes him by. Think all 3 are decent Championship midfielders, would be nice to improve on that but at the moment I'd just be happy with a winger or two coming in

[RamNut]

There seems to be a bit of a consensus as to where the problems lie.

 

[brady1993]

9 minutes ago, RamsFan10 said:

Butterfield and Johnson can both be wasteful in possession, made even more clear by them playing next to Huddlestone these days. From what we've got in the middle, Johnson Butterfield and Bryson, I think Johnson offers more going forward, has a decent shot on him. In all fairness so does Butterfield, but I feel like the game often passes him by. Think all 3 are decent Championship midfielders, would be nice to improve on that but at the moment I'd just be happy with a winger or two coming in

Are you seriously trying to say that Butterfield is as wasteful in possession as Johnson ? The difference is night and day between the two when it comes to keeping the ball, last season Butterfield had an average passing accuracy of 83% whereas Johnson's was 70%. I do agree it would be nice to bring someone better in though.