Take Your Pick

[ramblur]

Gary recently said that he'd like to reduce the squad size by 6/7 players this season,whilst bringing 3/4 in. I'll take the higher figures in both cases,which implies 2 more in and 9 more out. (assuming Wisdom signs).For the purposes (and no doubt annoying some) I'll assume that Ince is gone,which would mean 8 more out. I've attempted to list all the players below,and put them into categories:-

Probable/almost certain profits :- Martin,Keogh,Christie,Russell,Bryson

Not sure:- Wemann,Ollson(can never remember his spelling-too lazy to check)

Neutral/possible profit (mainly original frees):- Pearce,Baird,Hanson,Bent

Probable losses:- Butters,Blackman,Johnson,Vydra,Anya,Shackell

I've left the goalies out and also the two returning from long term injuries.I've also left Nugent out,but feel free to include him (apologies for anyone I've missed).

So who do you pick? You can have permanents and loans. Loans that involve only part wages savings do of course save some wages and reduce squad size. Any players signed in 15/16 or later will have book values a fair bit higher than would have been the case pre 15/16 because of amortisation changes (the flip side to FFP improvements due to lower amortisation). Remember if you sell someone at a big loss,this comes off the Hughes/Ince gains (and anyone else we sell at a profit).

If Ince does go,and if the wages are culled,then I can see a scenario in which we wouldn't have to utilise previous FFP undershoots that I speculated on in a previous (long) post,which would be good news for the following 2 seasons (if still in Championship).

I seem to remember that when Gary joined it was stated that the aim was to eventually have 5-7 high earners +7-9 on lesser wages,the squad balance being made up of Academy graduates/loans.Looks like there'll have to be a Phase 2 next year.

So have a go,it might make you appreciate what a tricky balancing act Gary has to do!

[i-Ram]

I bet Monopoly is played for weeks in your house @ramblur

[RoyMac5]

12 minutes ago, ramblur said:

Gary recently said that he'd like to reduce the squad size by 6/7 players this season,whilst bringing 3/4 in. ...

So have a go,it might make you appreciate what a tricky balancing act Gary has to do!

No-one wants any of them, we're stuck with them until their contracts run out! Might get a couple out on loan if we're lucky...

[ramblur]

8 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

I bet Monopoly is played for weeks in your house @ramblur

Played it a lot as a kid lol. For the older members I should have included a 'Yes or No' interlude in the thread.

[Rampant]

Two in and eight out? Crikey. My preferred choices then:

Out: Olssen, Pearce, Christie, Hanson, Anya, Blackman, Weimann and Bent

In: Two quality players.....a DM and a wide attacker

[Comrade 86]

Love all the posts about how we should shift the likes of Anya, Blackman and co. Thing is, someone has to want to buy them first.

[ramblur]

8 minutes ago, Rampant said:

Two in and eight out? Crikey. My preferred choices then:

Out: Olssen, Pearce, Christie, Hanson, Anya, Blackman, Weimann and Bent

In: Two quality players.....a DM and a wide attacker

Your spelling's better than my feeble effort!

[ramblur]

18 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

No-one wants any of them, we're stuck with them until their contracts run out! Might get a couple out on loan if we're lucky...

Well that certainly shows what a tricky job Gary's got. This thread would probably have had more takers if I'd just said 'who do you want to ditch,irrespective of consequences and lack of interest'.

[RadioactiveWaste]

Out:

Blackman, Shackell, Pearce, Cyrus, Olssen, Bent, Butters, Weimann

In: Decent DM, Caulker, leave budget to improve in Jan as needed, quality attacking loan (if available but not essential).

We can then have

Baird/Wisdom         Keogh/Caulker       Davies              Fozzy/Lowe

Russell/Anya          Thorne/new DM      Johnson/Bryson        Elsnick/JR/Anya

                                         Martin/Nugent       Vydra

 

Martin and Nugent could play lone striker if we co for a five man midfield.

Anya and Fozzy could do wing back jobs if we want 3 at the back.

For the direct play Rowett wants we'd still be decent.

[ramblur]

2 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

Out:

Blackman, Shackell, Pearce, Cyrus, Olssen, Bent, Butters, Weimann

 

Fair enough,though I can see a couple of (probable) big financial hits there. I could probably have predicted the bulk of players that members would pick . Not to say that I'd be in agreement,and I won't be choosing any because I don't want to undermine players. I only commented on Ince because I was pretty sure he'd be off.

[RadioactiveWaste]

2 minutes ago, ramblur said:

Fair enough,though I can see a couple of (probable) big financial hits there. I could probably have predicted the bulk of players that members would pick . Not to say that I'd be in agreement,and I won't be choosing any because I don't want to undermine players. I only commented on Ince because I was pretty sure he'd be off.

Oh yeah, they'd be some losses on that list. But it's forum world - and to be honest I would still have thought several of those I named would contribute usefully, particularly Butters, Weimann, Baird and probably Olsson (he's not amazing but not terrible) and Christie.

[We'll be back in 81]

If it was me assuming ince has gone, I would look at moving out keogh, christie and russell all for profit and let bent go for free, then maybe loan out blackman and bennet.

Bring in a right wing back and a box to box midfielder who scores goals and play with wingbacks. Wisdom and curtis centre backs with thorne in front of them.

Thats 4 in and 7 out permanently.

[ramblur]

3 minutes ago, hiltonram said:

If it was me assuming ince has gone, I would look at moving out keogh, christie and russell all for profit and let bent go for free, then maybe loan out blackman and bennet.

Bring in a right wing back and a box to box midfielder who scores goals and play with wingbacks. Wisdom and curtis centre backs with thorne in front of them.

Thats 4 in and 7 out permanently.

You've probably left good loot for quality incomings there.

[Wolfie20]

Out :         Shackell, Bent, Olsson, Anya, Weimann (high salaries?)

                  Christie & Russell (decent fees)

                  Hanson (little game time likely)

In:              Defensive midfielder & quality replacement for Ince

[EnigmaRam]

Bennett Hanson Lowe Christie bent and Butterfield can all go for me, plus shackell when fit enough.

id take a gamble on caulker, bring in Ledley, get Jota and loan lookman/Ibe/Ojo or someone of that ilk

[We'll be back in 81]

10 minutes ago, ramblur said:

You've probably left good loot for quality incomings there.

Always good to have some loot for the next transfer window if we need to add.

[ramblur]

1 hour ago, i-Ram said:

I bet Monopoly is played for weeks in your house @ramblur

Well,we've had a version of 'Go back to Old Kent Road' in the past and for a time we were dreading 'Go to jail'. If only we had a poster called 'King',we'd no doubt have had 'King's Cross' at some stage. Some penno takers might 'Go back 3 paces' (ok, not quite spaces).

[Chellaston Ram]

I think the squad has improved already. We have 7 players that can't be blamed for last seasons failure.  Carson, Wisdom Davies Forsyth Thorne Martin & Nugent. In my opinion all first choice for next season. So only 4 more to pick/find

[Rev]

1 hour ago, ramblur said:

Gary recently said that he'd like to reduce the squad size by 6/7 players this season,whilst bringing 3/4 in. I'll take the higher figures in both cases,which implies 2 more in and 9 more out. (assuming Wisdom signs).For the purposes (and no doubt annoying some) I'll assume that Ince is gone,which would mean 8 more out. I've attempted to list all the players below,and put them into categories:-

Probable/almost certain profits :- Martin,Keogh,Christie,Russell,Bryson

Not sure:- Wemann,Ollson(can never remember his spelling-too lazy to check)

Neutral/possible profit (mainly original frees):- Pearce,Baird,Hanson,Bent

Probable losses:- Butters,Blackman,Johnson,Vydra,Anya,Shackell

I've left the goalies out and also the two returning from long term injuries.I've also left Nugent out,but feel free to include him (apologies for anyone I've missed).

So who do you pick? You can have permanents and loans. Loans that involve only part wages savings do of course save some wages and reduce squad size. Any players signed in 15/16 or later will have book values a fair bit higher than would have been the case pre 15/16 because of amortisation changes (the flip side to FFP improvements due to lower amortisation). Remember if you sell someone at a big loss,this comes off the Hughes/Ince gains (and anyone else we sell at a profit).

If Ince does go,and if the wages are culled,then I can see a scenario in which we wouldn't have to utilise previous FFP undershoots that I speculated on in a previous (long) post,which would be good news for the following 2 seasons (if still in Championship).

I seem to remember that when Gary joined it was stated that the aim was to eventually have 5-7 high earners +7-9 on lesser wages,the squad balance being made up of Academy graduates/loans.Looks like there'll have to be a Phase 2 next year.

So have a go,it might make you appreciate what a tricky balancing act Gary has to do!

From the probable category, I could see Christie, possibly Russell and maybe Keogh leaving.

Christie can go for me, loads of potential but how long do we wait for the penny to drop, if we could pull in £1m with add ons I'd take it. Andre will not give him a look in.

I'm happy enough to replace Tom with Russell as it stands, but if we could get £3-4m for Russell, combined with the Ince money I'd back myself to find a better replacement.

Love Keogh, but he's no spring chicken and if we pull in the kind of substantial money around the £3-£5m mark, I'd do that deal without hesitation, the club comes first, not my feeling for the player.

From the not sure, possibly Wiemann on a perm, can't see anyone in for Olsson at a reasonable price, but should attract enough interest at a low/free fee to move him on. Maybe another 2 mil for the kitty from these two, at best.

So far that's £9m pulled in from 5 players, maybe as low as £7m in reality. 

Wage saving of £100k pw.

Of the next group, only Pearce I could see attracting a fee, anything around 500k I'd take, looks good on the surface, but not so good positionally and seems to have fall asleep at times.

Baird and Hanson I'd keep around, a smaller squad requires versatile players, and those 2 have it.

Bent could be loaned, let's face it no one will buy him, but I can see a team taking him on loan, with us paying half his wages.

Wage saving 22.5k a week, across Pearce and Bent.

The next group I'd keep them all, not least because I feel they'd be little interest in them, and Vydra, Butterfield and Johnson could all have massive parts to play in the upcoming season.

In summary, 7 out, 0 in, between £7-9m banked, and a wage bill reduction of £122.5k per week, with plenty of room to hit the January sales should we need.

Possibly we'd need a further centre half now, depending on how long we have to wait till Shackeĺl returns, assuming Rawson ain't up to the job, or indeed Baird.

[rammieib]

Ok so for all our 'average to poor' players we have released one after terminating his contract (I would guess a small is zero pay off). So after 8 weeks I've not even seen a proper rumour coming out for any of these players to off old them.

Why? Because I doubt anyone in the champ would touch them and then they find out how much they are earning at Derby and run to the hills.

If people think we will see even 3-4 of these players go before we face Sunderland I think you need to realise that we don't play in the World of Football Manager anymore!

The best chance we have is to offer most on free's but then FFP would take a hit so I bet that won't happen.