RoyMac5 Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 1 hour ago, BobbyD said: Totally predictable result Awful team selection from Mac - what on earth was he thinking of ? You what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyD Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 4 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: You what? Eh ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 2 minutes ago, brady1993 said: I think you're missing the point here slightly. As an attacking unit we have been producing very low amounts of goals, our attacking players (not including Ince) have only produced 5 goals between them during McClaren's 2nd tenure (Not blaming McClaren here, he was left with a complete mess and has done a fantastic job so far). We haven't been lucky because Ince and our defenders are playing well but we have been heavily reliant on it. To a degree that I would say is untenable for a side looking to get into the top 6. I fully get the point. One of the reasons behind this though as we don't flood the opposition area, we give Ince room to isolate his defender and cause damage. When this stops happening I am sure Mac will identify and adjust accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 2 minutes ago, BobbyD said: Eh ? Ah, your reply makes clear the insight you have about Mac. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brady1993 Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 1 hour ago, BobbyD said: Totally predictable result Awful team selection from Mac - what on earth was he thinking of ? No problem losing the run , its just the manner of it Still, I guess we have been punching above our weight for a while Awful team selection ? Give over, I can tell you exactly what he was probably thinking with each player. Back 5 + Johnson - All been playing well, don't have much option but to play Anya left back. Bryson - Hughes is injured, the only other senior centre midfielders are Bryson and Hanson. Bryson done far more at this level and is almost certainly the better player. Butterfield - See logic for Bryson Ince - Absolutely flying form-wise, no brainer to pick him. Vydra - Bent is probably not up to playing another game so soon after saturday, got to go with the only other senior option up front. Russell - Anya has to play left back, Blackman is returning to fitness and presumably not up to starting. Camara wasn't in the squad, so I presume has picked up another injury. So between Russell and Wiemann, he decides to go with Russell who he thinks is the better player. So which out of those decisions was so terrible ? Because I can only see two areas you can somewhat debate over: playing Hanson in midfield and Wiemann instead of Russell. I highly doubt either decision had a massive bearing on the result and personally I trust McClaren made the right call (after all he gets to see them everyday in training which we don't). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brady1993 Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 10 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: I fully get the point. One of the reasons behind this though as we don't flood the opposition area, we give Ince room to isolate his defender and cause damage. When this stops happening I am sure Mac will identify and adjust accordingly. Sure but I still think we need to be producing more goals as unit even with that taken into account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PodgeyRam Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 48 minutes ago, Derby_EnglandLoyal said: You should tell people on Twitter about Russell bit mate.. New scapegoat now. Derby fans always need one. I'll criticise players, but my scapegoat this season is Niger Pearson.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEL Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 1 minute ago, PodgeyRam said: Derby fans always need one. I'll criticise players, but my scapegoat this season is Niger Pearson.. And mine too as long with Blackman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PodgeyRam Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 2 minutes ago, brady1993 said: Awful team selection ? Give over, I can tell you exactly what he was probably thinking with each player. Back 5 + Johnson - All been playing well, don't have much option but to play Anya left back. Bryson - Hughes is injured, the only other senior centre midfielders are Bryson and Hanson. Bryson done far more at this level and is almost certainly the better player. Butterfield - See logic for Bryson Ince - Absolutely flying form-wise, no brainer to pick him. Vydra - Bent is probably not up to playing another game so soon after saturday, got to go with the only other senior option up front. Russell - Anya has to play left back, Blackman is returning to fitness and presumably not up to starting. Camara wasn't in the squad, so I presume has picked up another injury. So between Russell and Wiemann, he decides to go with Russell who he thinks is the better player. So which out of those decisions was so terrible ? Because I can only see two areas you can somewhat debate over: playing Hanson in midfield and Wiemann instead of Russell. I highly doubt either decision had a massive bearing on the result and personally I trust McClaren made the right call (after all he gets to see them everyday in training which we don't). The team selection wasn't wrong, but the performances of some players on the pitch today certainly were. Although obviously we weren't helped by Anyas injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PodgeyRam Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Just now, Derby_EnglandLoyal said: And mine too as long with Blackman. Blackman, haha. I've seen more promise from Blackman at Derby than I have Vydra. No mean feat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Of course the run was always going to end but it's the manner of the performance which disappoints. Compared to our 13/14 side we seem to lack passing pace, we don't have 3rd man runners providing movement off the ball and we are not creating chances across the front 6 as we were once. And when we're tired and misfiring we don't seem able to stay in shape, frustrate the opposition and grind out a point. Striking the comparison with Brighton who have got over their playoff disappointment and look unstoppable atm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TroyDyer Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 6 minutes ago, PodgeyRam said: Derby fans always need one. I'll criticise players, but my scapegoat this season is Niger Pearson.. 5 minutes ago, Derby_EnglandLoyal said: And mine too as long with Blackman. Umm. Do we have a racism issue on this forum Daveo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brady1993 Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 2 minutes ago, PodgeyRam said: The team selection wasn't wrong, but the performances of some players on the pitch today certainly were. Although obviously we weren't helped by Anyas injury. I don't deny that about performances (oh and as an aside cheers for the cracking report earlier in the thread ), I just take exception to the @BobbyD 's ludicrous claims that team selection was somehow terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 10 minutes ago, brady1993 said: Awful team selection ? Give over, I can tell you exactly what he was probably thinking with each player. Back 5 + Johnson - All been playing well, don't have much option but to play Anya left back. Bryson - Hughes is injured, the only other senior centre midfielders are Bryson and Hanson. Bryson done far more at this level and is almost certainly the better player. Butterfield - See logic for Bryson Ince - Absolutely flying form-wise, no brainer to pick him. Vydra - Bent is probably not up to playing another game so soon after saturday, got to go with the only other senior option up front. Russell - Anya has to play left back, Blackman is returning to fitness and presumably not up to starting. Camara wasn't in the squad, so I presume has picked up another injury. So between Russell and Wiemann, he decides to go with Russell who he thinks is the better player. So which out of those decisions was so terrible ? Because I can only see two areas you can somewhat debate over: playing Hanson in midfield and Wiemann instead of Russell. I highly doubt either decision had a massive bearing on the result and personally I trust McClaren made the right call (after all he gets to see them everyday in training which we don't). Gotta agree with ypu there. Camara was out for personal reasons - something to do with his missus says Mac. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brady1993 Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Just now, RoyMac5 said: Gotta agree with ypu there. Camara was out for personal reasons - something to do with his missus says Mac. Thanks for the correction, hadn't heard about that . I actually suspect that if he was available that he would have started today because he seems to have jumped above Wiemann in the pecking order, has been doing ok when coming off the bench and with McClaren's talk of 'freshening' the side up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PodgeyRam Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 17 minutes ago, brady1993 said: I don't deny that about performances (oh and as an aside cheers for the cracking report earlier in the thread ), I just take exception to the @BobbyD 's ludicrous claims that team selection was somehow terrible. I agree, thought I was backing you up, but I can see how it might not have appeared that way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 32 minutes ago, HantsRam said: Of course the run was always going to end but it's the manner of the performance which disappoints. Compared to our 13/14 side we seem to lack passing pace, we don't have 3rd man runners providing movement off the ball and we are not creating chances across the front 6 as we were once. And when we're tired and misfiring we don't seem able to stay in shape, frustrate the opposition and grind out a point. Striking the comparison with Brighton who have got over their playoff disappointment and look unstoppable atm. The front six are totally unbalanced. In 2013/14, we had a natural holding midfielder, a linking midfielder in Hughes and a goal scoring attacking midfielder in Bryson. Bryson that season was playing like a £15m man, that's how much it could cost us to buy a player capable of scoring 16 goals and adding a further 13 assists from midfield. Upfront we had the ideal target man in Martin, and two wingers (one left-footed, one right-footed) who had licence to cut in. Aside from the talent we had, it was such a balanced front six. Now, we have a DM which isn't a natural there, two linking midfielders basically doing the job of one, two left-footed wingers meaning one struggles to cut inside with any real purpose, and a CF who can't play the targetman role anywhere near as effective enough. We may have six individually decent players, but as a team it's a horrible mixture with very little balance. We need a fit George Thorne back, Chris Martin back, a replica Bryson from 2013/14 in midfield and a right-footed Tom Ince on the left side of a three. Not going to be easy to piece together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JarodyDCFC Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 What I said after today's game- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 42 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said: The front six are totally unbalanced. In 2013/14, we had a natural holding midfielder, a linking midfielder in Hughes and a goal scoring attacking midfielder in Bryson. Bryson that season was playing like a £15m man, that's how much it could cost us to buy a player capable of scoring 16 goals and adding a further 13 assists from midfield. Upfront we had the ideal target man in Martin, and two wingers (one left-footed, one right-footed) who had licence to cut in. Aside from the talent we had, it was such a balanced front six. Now, we have a DM which isn't a natural there, two linking midfielders basically doing the job of one, two left-footed wingers meaning one struggles to cut inside with any real purpose, and a CF who can't play the targetman role anywhere near as effective enough. We may have six individually decent players, but as a team it's a horrible mixture with very little balance. We need a fit George Thorne back, Chris Martin back, a replica Bryson from 2013/14 in midfield and a right-footed Tom Ince on the left side of a three. Not going to be easy to piece together. Plus develop a workable alternative - possibly with 2 up top- as a plan B. Oh and some decent squad cover. This feels like more than 1 transfer window to sort. Mind - it's taken us 3 I think to create the current mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angieram Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 I'm not very good at all this theory but I know what I see in practice. Not long home from a 350 mile round trip so can't be bothered to write a match report. Just wanted to add a couple of things that were relevant for me today. We had a bright start and Norwich were very nervy. We moved the ball forward quickly but once it got in and around the box we start fannying around, looking for another pass or taking three touches. It's as if we want to walk the ball into the net. When we gave the ball away it took Norwich seconds to create a clear chance, which was hit very firmly by Oliviera and went right in the corner. Harsh to accuse Carson over that one. My point is that we had several attacks and made no clear cut chances, they score with their first shot. We had them back-pedalling, the crowd on their back and yet our inability to create chances cost us again. My second point has little to do with the game but a lot less than half of us were still in the ground to hear the final whistle. I know it's heart breaking when we lose like that but some of our players still came over at the final whistle to applaud and those were the ones that had worked so hard when down to 10 men. We have just come off the back of a ten-game unbeaten run and this was a game we were right in until Butterfield's sending off and I was just a bit disappointed that people couldn't stick around to acknowledge the players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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