Paul Clement

[Wolfie]

12 minutes ago, barnsley ram said:

were we not fifth in the league and just drawn with fulham when we sacked him

If you say so. That has nothing to do with what I posted, though.

[cannable]

47 minutes ago, barnsley ram said:

were we not fifth in the league and just drawn with fulham when we sacked him

I believe the key word here is 'context'

[Mr Tibbs]

3 hours ago, Wolfie said:

Not wanting to rake it all up again but surely it was Clement's farce. He was interviewed and taken on to play the game in a certain way, according to Mel's long term vision. He either couldn't, or more likely, wouldn't do that and went off and did his own thing. That's not in dispute as far as I know. Either way, the responsibility was Clement's, as he must have said all the right things at interview, to get the job.

A lot of things weren't fitting of Mel's long term vision according to him, yet 6 months later he appoints Nigel Pearson throwing everything he ever said in those interviews about this bullshit "Derby Way" straight out of the window. 4 months after that we're back on it...

It would be interesting to hear PC's side of the story, his brother obviously gave it the big un for him but has he ever said anything about his time here? 

Whilst I'm not calling Mel out as a liar, his antics that followed do contradict his reasons for getting rid of Clement. 

 

[GboroRam]

4 minutes ago, Mr Tibbs said:

A lot of things weren't fitting of Mel's long term vision according to him, yet 6 months later he appoints Nigel Pearson throwing everything he ever said in those interviews about this bullshit "Derby Way" straight out of the window. 4 months after that we're back on it...

It would be interesting to hear PC's side of the story, his brother obviously gave it the big un for him but has he ever said anything about his time here? 

Whilst I'm not calling Mel out as a liar, his antics that followed do contradict his reasons for getting rid of Clement. 

 

Or he hired another manager who said one thing and did another.

[RadioactiveWaste]

33 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

Or he hired another manager who said one thing and did another.

Yup, and was wildly popular with some folks at the time.

Mel said something along the lines of "what we liked about Pearson was a lot of the things we want to do are things he wants to do"

[barnsley ram]

1 hour ago, barnsley ram said:

were we not fifth in the league and just drawn with fulham when we sacked him

well  didnt you say clement farce ? i was just drawing your attention to the fact that he wasnt a failure at derby so lets hope he is ok at swanea hopefully playing his own way

 

[Wolfie]

24 minutes ago, barnsley ram said:

well  didnt you say clement farce ? i was just drawing your attention to the fact that he wasnt a failure at derby so lets hope he is ok at swanea hopefully playing his own way

 

I'm guessing you were trying to quote me there. Whether or not he was a failure in terms of football played is debatable. My point was that his demise was of his own making, by not doing what he must have signed up to.

[cannable]

1 hour ago, Mr Tibbs said:

A lot of things weren't fitting of Mel's long term vision according to him, yet 6 months later he appoints Nigel Pearson throwing everything he ever said in those interviews about this bullshit "Derby Way" straight out of the window. 4 months after that we're back on it...

It would be interesting to hear PC's side of the story, his brother obviously gave it the big un for him but has he ever said anything about his time here? 

Whilst I'm not calling Mel out as a liar, his antics that followed do contradict his reasons for getting rid of Clement. 

 

This is what a lot of us thought at the time but Mel's stated since that 'The Derby Way' was still a thing. 

Which is pleasing but at the same time makes me question why Pearson wasn't sacked after Burton or better yet as soon as our starting eleven against Brighton was announced!

[Mr Tibbs]

2 hours ago, GboroRam said:

Or he hired another manager who said one thing and did another.

Let's not kid ourselves here, we're on about Nigel Pearson. Has he ever managed teams who play positive, flowing football which have matched our own beliefs and values? 

If Mel actually thought Nigel Pearson would adopt the 433 and play attacking football with the onus on us to keep the ball and control the game then I give up. I might apply for the next job, tell a few porkies with my game face and walk through those Moor Farm doors to a cushy championship management job if it's that easy to fool him. 

 

1 hour ago, cannable said:

This is what a lot of us thought at the time but Mel's stated since that 'The Derby Way' was still a thing. 

Which is pleasing but at the same time makes me question why Pearson wasn't sacked after Burton or better yet as soon as our starting eleven against Brighton was announced!

It makes me question why he was appointed in the first place, as I said above, Nigel Pearson was never going to play "The Derby Way" either, blatantly obvious. 

That reason alone is why I'm not quite on board with justifying Clement's sacking purely because we didn't play the way we should have.

[SaintRam]

3 minutes ago, Mr Tibbs said:

Let's not kid ourselves here, we're on about Nigel Pearson. Has he ever managed teams who play positive, flowing football which have matched our own beliefs and values? 

If Mel actually thought Nigel Pearson would adopt the 433 and play attacking football with the onus on us to keep the ball and control the game then I give up. I might apply for the next job, tell a few porkies with my game face and walk through those Moor Farm doors to a cushy championship management job if it's that easy to fool him. 

 

It makes me question why he was appointed in the first place, as I said above, Nigel Pearson was never going to play "The Derby Way" either, blatantly obvious. 

That reason alone is why I'm not quite on board with justifying Clement's sacking purely because we didn't play the way we should have.

I don't know, but I'm fairly confident he wasn't sacked simply because of that. Something went off behind the scenes. 

 

[RadioactiveWaste]

...after Wassall got the job there were harpies shrilly saying that appointing Nigel Pearson after Clement was a promotion inevitability and not appointing Nigel Pearson was tantamount to deciding to not be promoted.

Yes,some people really really really wanted Nigel Pearson.

[barnsley ram]

8 hours ago, Wolfie said:

I'm guessing you were trying to quote me there. Whether or not he was a failure in terms of football played is debatable. My point was that his demise was of his own making, by not doing what he must have signed up to.

ok i get your point so now we are playing the derby way under mclaren and only seventh place how about sacking him?

[maydrakin]

My recollection of Clement was that his team was instructed to play possession football at the cost of everything else.

By that, if there was an 80% pass on to thread a forward through on goal or 100% pass to turn around and play it back to a defender, it seems players were instructed to go for the latter.

Teams tended to set up defensively against us, meaning you were presented with 90 minutes of tedium and a score line of 1-0 (either way).

[Alph]

I hope he does well. I liked him. I thought he deserved more time.

Yeah his football was dull but I remember @rammieib inviting me to one of the fan forum things. Clement had a presentation and in it he talked about how high in the tables Derby were on chances created, shots, passes in the final third, passes completed in the final third and territory. 

He was a rookie that stepped into a job that really demanded quite instant results. We don't have patient fans. 

It seems wrong to be too harsh on his football. It was his first management job and he'd not been in it a season. 

I think it sounds about right that he saw us as a stepping stone. But we can't really judge him on that without proof. We've only heard one side of the story. 

I think it might be a while before anybody sees what a Clement team looks like. 

 

[Curtains]

40 minutes ago, Alpha said:

I hope he does well. I liked him. I thought he deserved more time.

Yeah his football was dull but I remember @rammieib inviting me to one of the fan forum things. Clement had a presentation and in it he talked about how high in the tables Derby were on chances created, shots, passes in the final third, passes completed in the final third and territory. 

He was a rookie that stepped into a job that really demanded quite instant results. We don't have patient fans. 

It seems wrong to be too harsh on his football. It was his first management job and he'd not been in it a season. 

I think it sounds about right that he saw us as a stepping stone. But we can't really judge him on that without proof. We've only heard one side of the story. 

I think it might be a while before anybody sees what a Clement team looks like. 

 

Clement was  over shadowed at that forum by Mel Morris IMO  .

It seemed all about Wassall and the academy to me. 

One of them things that seemed stage managed. 

[rammieib]

I think we will get to play a Clement team next season and it won't be in the Premiership!

[Wolfie]

9 hours ago, barnsley ram said:

ok i get your point so now we are playing the derby way under mclaren and only seventh place how about sacking him?

Yes, because Mac is clearly to blame for us being in the bottom 3 under Pearson in September.

[barnsley ram]

im not pulling mclaren down but i am saying paul clement did ok and wasnt given enough time although i think there where underlying circumstances involving his sacking probably player power sulkers who wouldnt play to a plan or more like didnt want to

[Curtains]

1 hour ago, rammieib said:

I think we will get to play a Clement team next season and it won't be in the Premiership!

I think you are wrong. 

He will keep Swansea up .

I doubt Derby will go up either. 

[Alph]

The players must have tried hard enough to get into the top 6

Then they decided to give up?

I wish people would stop making massive assumptions about the majority of footballers. Where does this idea come from that they're arrogant knob heads just happy to collect money?

Footballers are paid a lot of money because of us. We could be in their position if we had the talent, made the sacrifices and had the dedication. And if we had the money I guarantee we wouldn't be driving hatchbacks and dating Susan Boyle. 

They played for Clement. They are in a league with other professional footballers. I think if they downed tools you'd know about it. 

Like the accusations they didn't play for Pearson. They played just hard enough to secure narrow defeats? So their careers can go down the pan? If they don't want to play then nothing is stopping them quitting. The money they get paid isn't endless. It goes up or down with their careers. 

Seriously, where does it originate from? That book from an unnamed author? What makes the book true? It wouldn't sell if it wasn't full of scandal. Or is it Wayne Rooney cheating on his wife? I know lads that have cheated. Nothing to do with their job. They weren't thinking about their job when they did it. They weren't thinking much at all.

As you can see, it winds me up that people suggest players stop trying. I'm sure there's been some as in any job that lose interest. But like any job the vast majority want to be good at what they do. Nobody likes losing. Athletes as much as anyone.