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The Hughes Debate

loughboroughRAM

By loughboroughRAM
in Derby County Forum

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Millenniumram

Millenniumram

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, McLovin said:

Shelvey's who scored stats for this season- 7.23

Hughes' who scored stats for this season-7.10

 

Tbf there's not a huge difference considering half of Hughes games have been in a team managed by Nigel Pearson, possibly the worst manager to take charge of us I've ever seen and shelvey has been playing in a team far too good for this division. hughes is easily technically better than shelvey as well as every other midfielder in this division IMO.

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cannable

cannable

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, McLovin said:

Shelvey's who scored stats for this season- 7.23

Hughes' who scored stats for this season-7.10

 

To be fair, the year Hughes was in the Championship TOTS he only got a 7.01 on WhoScored and the year he was our POTS he was way below a 7.00 and yet this, his worst season for us (so far) has seen WhoScored give him his highest ratings.

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Sexydadbod

Sexydadbod

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

Tbf there's not a huge difference considering half of Hughes games have been in a team managed by Nigel Pearson, possibly the worst manager to take charge of us I've ever seen and shelvey has been playing in a team far too good for this division. hughes is easily technically better than shelvey as well as every other midfielder in this division IMO.

Whilst the first part is true, it depends what you define as technically better. Ignoring the quality of this video, I don't think Hughes could do some of the things shelvey did here. I think Hughes's first touch is better but Shelvey's ability to spray to ball around is a lot better than hughes e.g. at 1.48 of the video and his shot is a lot cleaner than hughes' is. Just in this video alone Shelvey's teammates missed 4-5 good chances. I imagine having both of them in the team would be great to watch for the fans.

 

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LazloW

LazloW

Posted
Posted

Not sure why thread exists. Should be no debate over Will Hughes. Clearly he is not world class or the best midfielder in the league.... yet. I think he definitely has the potential to be world class.  Lots of players have this potential at his age. Some go on to become world class, others go on to be very good, others go on to be decent and others probably just plod on and never achieve what they could have. 

Irrespective of all this, surely everybody can see the talent and quality he has and enjoy the fact that he is playing for us. Why people need to take pleasure in arguing he isn't that good, or will never be that good, or is completely overrated is beyond me.  For starters, if people want to go a little over the top in their appreciation and expectation of him, then so what and why not? Football is supposed to be fun! We all know we tend to go a bit daft over academy products ("one of our own" 'n all that guff) - see the current lauding of Max Lowe as the best left back in England.  It's a bit silly, but who cares? Why do we have to be so joyless? He won't be here forever, so we might as well enjoy it while we can.  

I guess there is so much analysis of every misplaced pass or unsuccessful dribble Will makes exactly because he is so good and expectations so high.  Even so, it is ridiculous to argue that he isn't that good because he lost the ball in the build up to the goal against Norwich. What player has never made the wrong decision? 

He can improve and he will improve and I hope he gets 100 caps for England and wins a world cup and if he does, then I will take great pleasure in having seen him play for us in his formative years... and if he doesn't, then I guess I'll look at him a bit like I look at Tom Huddleston and many others before him and think, 'what might have been'... but I certainly won't be wishing that on him or gloating if he doesn't quite make it.

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Sexydadbod

Sexydadbod

Posted
Posted
27 minutes ago, cannable said:

To be fair, the year Hughes was in the Championship TOTS he only got a 7.01 on WhoScored and the year he was our POTS he was way below a 7.00 and yet this, his worst season for us (so far) has seen WhoScored give him his highest ratings.

Don't get me wrong I like Hughes a lot. He is probably my favourite player in the Derby team but I was responding to the comment that Hughes is the best player by far in the championship which in my view he isn't, especially when you have the likes of Shelvey performing the way he is this season(ignoring his brain fart against the florists). Also the likes of Knockaert, Forestieri, Ritchie,Hogan etc deserve to be in the conversation for the best championship player

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Millenniumram

Millenniumram

Posted
Posted
26 minutes ago, McLovin said:

Whilst the first part is true, it depends what you define as technically better. Ignoring the quality of this video, I don't think Hughes could do some of the things shelvey did here. I think Hughes's first touch is better but Shelvey's ability to spray to ball around is a lot better than hughes e.g. at 1.48 of the video and his shot is a lot cleaner than hughes' is. Just in this video alone Shelvey's teammates missed 4-5 good chances. I imagine having both of them in the team would be great to watch for the fans.

 

Shelvey is definately better at the two things you suggest, but that's because he is a different player to Hughes entirely really, probably I'd say more in the Thorne mould but less defensive obviously- however what Hughes is good at IMO he's better than what shelvey is good at, if that makes sense and is an utterly brilliant player who I wouldn't trade for anyone in this division, not to say that I wouldn't mind shelvey alongside him tho!

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cannable

cannable

Posted
Posted
59 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

Shelvey is definately better at the two things you suggest, but that's because he is a different player to Hughes entirely really, probably I'd say more in the Thorne mould but less defensive obviously- however what Hughes is good at IMO he's better than what shelvey is good at, if that makes sense and is an utterly brilliant player who I wouldn't trade for anyone in this division, not to say that I wouldn't mind shelvey alongside him tho!

Thorne's better than Shelvey. Shelvey is more two footed than George and has that bit more guile about him but George is streets and streets and streets ahead defensively. 

Newcastle need Hayden to allow Shelvey to run the game. Thorne runs the game and allows others to play at the same time. 

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Millenniumram

Millenniumram

Posted
Posted
Just now, cannable said:

Thorne's better than Shelvey. Shelvey is more two footed than George and has that bit more guile about him but George is streets and streets and streets ahead defensively. 

Newcastle need Hayden to allow Shelvey to run the game. Thorne runs the game and allows others to play at the same time. 

Agree with you entirely, Thorne is easily the best defensive mid in the division and runs Hughes very close to being our best player for his ability to control matches and almost direct the team

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Mr Tibbs

Mr Tibbs

Posted
Posted
26 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

Agree with you entirely, Thorne is easily the best defensive mid in the division and runs Hughes very close to being our best player for his ability to control matches and almost direct the team

Easily? You have to play games to be the best defensive midfielder in the division. He's played 40 odd games in three years. He showed his ability in that initial loan spell where he was outstanding but hasn't hit those heights since. He played most of his games for us last year but despite being the consistent 7/10 man I still think there were better CDM's in the division that performed better. Players who performed better in the crunch games and essentially helped their teams to promotion with consistent outstanding performances. Joey Barton and Adam Clayton I'm looking at you. 

All opinions obviously. I hope he comes back and becomes the best CDM in this league but he's a long way off yet, those brilliant quarterback performances in 2013/2014 seem a long long time ago now. 

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jagerbob

jagerbob

Posted
Posted

mr Tibbs is right. Thorne sometimes looks like the best player in the division when he is playing and playing well.

But as rams fans we can all be guilty of only watching our team with our rose tinted specs. theres many a player to rival Thorne all be it with slightly different qualities.

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Rev

Rev

Posted
Posted

I don't care if Will is world class, could be world class, or will never be world class.

He's the only Derby player who consistently is worth the entrance fee alone.

By that, I mean he's the only one I could watch just him, and him alone during a game and think 'That boy is special.'

George could be as good, in a different way, but needs to catch a break with injuries.

Try it next time you're bored during a humdrum game, just focus on Will exclusively for a 5 minute period, see his movement on and off the ball, the way he sees moves developing 3/4 passes before anyone else on the pitch, and how he knows the best option for a pass long before the ball reaches him, or the best position to be in to regain possession.

He's not currently better than Shelvey, maybe even Lansbury, but the improvement he'd make by playing with better players would see him easily surpass the pair of them.

 

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Millenniumram

Millenniumram

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Mr Tibbs said:

Easily? You have to play games to be the best defensive midfielder in the division. He's played 40 odd games in three years. He showed his ability in that initial loan spell where he was outstanding but hasn't hit those heights since. He played most of his games for us last year but despite being the consistent 7/10 man I still think there were better CDM's in the division that performed better. Players who performed better in the crunch games and essentially helped their teams to promotion with consistent outstanding performances. Joey Barton and Adam Clayton I'm looking at you. 

All opinions obviously. I hope he comes back and becomes the best CDM in this league but he's a long way off yet, those brilliant quarterback performances in 2013/2014 seem a long long time ago now. 

What I mean is by ability, Thorne is definately the best defensive mid in the division, and I think he proved that last season and you're being very harsh on him. He almost never dropped below a 7/10 but also put in many brilliant performances across the season, and also did remain fit for the majority of last season. Despite maybe not being as showy as his loan spell, he was still a vital cog in our team, controlling the play and dictating the midfield and it's this I believe that makes him the very best, it is just a shame he keeps getting injuries

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