The Hughes Debate

[Warren Hobhead]

8 hours ago, MuespachRam said:

Ince....couldn't cut it in the top division. 

Butterfield.....isn't even close to being in the same class as Hughes 

johnson.....wow, just really wow...

thorne...couldn't get a place in a shocking west brom team..!

 

no one to touch Hughes and like I said here hasn't been for 40 years

Yeah, you've already said that. And I will again tell you I disagree and find your comments so over the top they've cleared Everest. 

 

I always back our players and you'll be hard pressed trying to find me slating them on here. Lost count of the times I've defended Johnson, Ince and Butterfield in the last few months while others have tore into them and written them off. A lot of those doing that now blow smoke up those players arses. 

 

Do I think Hughes is better than anyone else in our squad? At certain things, yes. In other areas, no chance. 

 

For him to be lauded like he is he'd need to be the complete player. And he's miles off. 

[Daz_The_Ram]

9 hours ago, MuespachRam said:

Ince....couldn't cut it in the top division. 

Butterfield.....isn't even close to being in the same class as Hughes 

johnson.....wow, just really wow...

thorne...couldn't get a place in a shocking west brom team..!

 

no one to touch Hughes and like I said here hasn't been for 40 years

You're a troll aren't you? A plant ... doing it deliberately.

I'm out of this thread. It's completely off it's face.

[Daz_The_Ram]

8 minutes ago, Warren Hobhead said:

Yeah, you've already said that. And I will again tell you I disagree and find your comments so over the top they've cleared Everest. 

 

I always back our players and you'll be hard pressed trying to find me slating them on here. Lost count of the times I've defended Johnson, Ince and Butterfield in the last few months while others have tore into them and written them off. A lot of those doing that now blow smoke up those players arses. 

 

Do I think Hughes is better than anyone else in our squad? At certain things, yes. In other areas, no chance. 

 

For him to be lauded like he is he'd need to be the complete player. And he's miles off. 

At last ... at long last, someone who isn't high on drugs and living on the Magic Roundabout. 

Good points in all your posts in this thread sir. Thank god it isn't just me.

[cannable]

10 hours ago, MuespachRam said:

Ince....couldn't cut it in the top division. 

Butterfield.....isn't even close to being in the same class as Hughes 

johnson.....wow, just really wow...

thorne...couldn't get a place in a shocking west brom team..!

 

no one to touch Hughes and like I said here hasn't been for 40 years

We should all know by now what gets the best out of Ince and so playing in a rigid Pulis side and acting as a wingback for a Bruce side weren't ever going to give Ince the chance to truly show how he'd do in the Premier League.

I feel like I've told you this time and time again but Thorne had just broken into the West Brom team when he picked up his first ACL, was loaned out to get back up to speed and didn't want to go back.

[richinspain]

15 hours ago, MuespachRam said:

Ince....couldn't cut it in the top division. 

Butterfield.....isn't even close to being in the same class as Hughes 

johnson.....wow, just really wow...

thorne...couldn't get a place in a shocking west brom team..!

 

no one to touch Hughes and like I said here hasn't been for 40 years

Carson's a much better goalie than Will 

[Alph]

8 hours ago, Daz_The_Ram said:

That is deliberately missing the point and you know it. 

I'll just refer everyone right now to what the MANAGER of the club made of Hughes' 'world class' contribution to our winner on Saturday. 

http://www.fcexclusive.com/derby-county-boss-thought-about-strangling-will-hughes-seconds/

I quote ...

'Steve McClaren admitted he thought about “strangling” Will Hughes only seconds before Derby County’s winning goal against Norwich City.'

“I thought we had lost the opportunity with Will (Hughes) when we had a three on two on the counter attack,” said McClaren.

“I was thinking about strangling him for it because it was a good opportunity on the break but the ball fell nicely for Bradley, who followed up and scored."

...
 

It can't just be me, can it?

Roll up, roll up

Player makes error!!! 

Read all about it

[TelTheRam]

He didn't make an error, not in my opinion.

Looking at the replay he was driving at the Norwich defence but when the defenders got within 2 or 3 yards of closing him down he could have laid the ball off to Bent or Ince - unfortunately they were BOTH offside. Bent by 2 yards, Ince only just by my reckoning.

So he keeps hold of it until the cavalry arrive.

[Alph]

33 minutes ago, TelTheRam said:

He didn't make an error, not in my opinion.

Looking at the replay he was driving at the Norwich defence but when the defenders got within 2 or 3 yards of closing him down he could have laid the ball off to Bent or Ince - unfortunately they were BOTH offside. Bent by 2 yards, Ince only just by my reckoning.

So he keeps hold of it until the cavalry arrive.

I'm a huge Hughes fan and the imo anyone criticising him needs to go back in time and remember just what an average midfield looked like  before a white haired kid from the academy showed up. 

But I think he had chance to release Ince earlier. I understand he didn't because he wanted to make life easier for Ince by taking the defenders out the game. So he carried on until the defenders came to him. If he'd passed straight away then Ince/Bent would have had defenders on them. 

The defenders waited until the last second before closing him down so as not to sell themselves. 

Hughes just got his timing wrong for once imo. The CB caught him in possession just as he was about to put in Ince. Half a second earlier and the pass would have took the defender out completely leaving Ince with a free shot. 

But it's such a nothing issue. There's a hundred errors in a game. Hundreds of potential turning points. Don't know why we go over and over the ones that end in goals

 

[TelTheRam]

Can't argue with any of that Alpha, and as you say it's not worth bothering about especially as we scored, but it's interesting to try and fathom what Hughes was thinking at the time. As mere mortals we can only guess.

Did the illness he'd had affect his timing and perception of what was going on around him ?

Usually he's like a top snooker player - always thinking a few shots ahead. 

[archied]

Hughes ????????

best player at the club currently ? For me a clear yes

currently the best player at the club in the last 40 years ? No , be fair ,,, Deano , kinky , biano,poom, not saying he's not up there but a lot to be proven yet that he's better than player we could all name that have played for us at a higher level

player with the most potential at the club? HELL YES 

will he go on to fulfill that potential ? Jeez I hope so and believe he will but it's never certain ,, we had a young Barnes come through with massive exciting potential who is now playing in the USA having never reached the heights for various reasons ,, god Giles was great to watch too when emerging as one of our own ( remember) ,,, and there lies the real cause of our heated arguments ,, he's one of our own and as such some of us really take him to our hearts and are not as balanced and unbiased in our view of him NOW ,,

bottom line ? Do everything we can reasonably and sensibly do for a club of our stature to keep him as long as we possibly can ,,, he lifts my soul with moments of shear brilliance / magic ,,, Hugh'sey ? If you are Derby you just got to love the lad, 

[utisbug]

On 1 December 2016 at 15:34, McLovin said:

Let's calm it down a little shall we. I think he will go on to be a mid table premier league team eventually. World class? No chance. To call him the best player in the league by some distance is quite a comment to make when it's debatable whether he is even the best player at this club. 

I'm incredibly calm.You can't be serious chap? He's not the best player at Derby County?...who is? also...name me a better player in the Championship...?

I've never seen a player at Derby with anywhere near the potential of Will Hughes. If you think top clubs aren't aware of him you're a mug. The kid was the England U21 player of the year a couple of years a go. Many pundits are shocked he is still in the Championship.

And...to not think Will Hughes has the potential to be world class is ridiculously short sighted. The kid has the ability to go on and play for anyone in Europe. He may not, but theres no way you can be blind enough to seriously suggest that Will Hughes does not have the ability to go on and be one of the very best midfielders in the country.

 

[Anag Ram]

I think we need to separate his talent from his form. He is he best in possession of the ball and has the best vision for a pass. He isn't at his best at the moment but class will out.

He probably needs to improve his shooting and heading to attract the bigger teams.

[Sexydadbod]

4 minutes ago, utisbug said:

I'm incredibly calm.You can't be serious chap? He's not the best player at Derby County?...who is? also...name me a better player in the Championship...?

I've never seen a player at Derby with anywhere near the potential of Will Hughes. If you think top clubs aren't aware of him you're a mug. The kid was the England U21 player of the year a couple of years a go. Many pundits are shocked he is still in the Championship.

And...to not think Will Hughes has the potential to be world class is ridiculously short sighted. The kid has the ability to go on and play for anyone in Europe. He may not, but theres no way you can be blind enough to seriously suggest that Will Hughes does not have the ability to go on and be one of the very best midfielders in the country.

 

Firstly, Shelvey is a better midfielder than Hughes as are the Brighton mids Kayal and Stephens. I'm just saying to calm it down a bit as it puts unnecessary pressure on him. It must be noted that just in the England u21s he is behind the likes of chalobah,loftus-cheek, Ward-Prowse and arguably Hayden now. Dele Alli is a better player than Hughes is and is younger but I don't think he will ever be world class. As I discussed with @brady1993 it depends what your definition of world class is. My definition is top 5 in their respective positions which for me Hughes will never achieve. Some players around his age and in similar positions in different countries are already playing champions league football like Saul,Weigl, Dahoud,Renato Sanches,Ruben neves,Rabiot, Emre can.My argument is that if Hughes had the potential to be world class, a big club would have bought him by now

[Dimmu]

Shelvey better than Hughes?!

[utisbug]

22 minutes ago, McLovin said:

Firstly, Shelvey is a better midfielder than Hughes as are the Brighton mids Kayal and Stephens. I'm just saying to calm it down a bit as it puts unnecessary pressure on him. It must be noted that just in the England u21s he is behind the likes of chalobah,loftus-cheek, Ward-Prowse and arguably Hayden now. Dele Alli is a better player than Hughes is and is younger but I don't think he will ever be world class. As I discussed with @brady1993 it depends what your definition of world class is. My definition is top 5 in their respective positions which for me Hughes will never achieve. Some players around his age and in similar positions in different countries are already playing champions league football like Saul,Weigl, Dahoud,Renato Sanches,Ruben neves,Rabiot, Emre can.My argument is that if Hughes had the potential to be world class, a big club would have bought him by now

Jonjo Shelley is not a better footballer than Will Hughes. 

Will Hughes is a different footballer to Chalobah, Loftus Cheek and Ward Prowse. The way Will Hughes plays football is more common with what you'd see on the continent.

Deli Allí is without doubt a better footballer, but again a different type of midfielder. The culture with which Will Hughes plays his football is what will ultimately give him success. He is unlike most in his position in that manner and will therefore warrant his place in the side. If Will Hughes has the ability to control the game and pull the strings at this age with the right career moves can you imagine how good he will be at 25/26? He's never going to be a marauding Renato Sanches, thats not his style. His ability to tie things together from deep and nudge a game along in the direction he dictates is where his strengths lie. He's modelled himself on Iniesta and thats abundantly obvious. There aren't many midfielders out there that fit his mold, and with football going increasingly the way of a possession based style Will Hughes is going to become an increasingly attractive prospect for top clubs.

[toddy]

Its getting very silly on here rating Hughes as world class.

He's a good championship midfielder possibly one of the best in the division, but is certainly not world class!

Let him learn his trade and see if he develops?

[DEL]

26 minutes ago, McLovin said:

Firstly, Shelvey is a better midfielder than Hughes as are the Brighton mids Kayal and Stephens. 

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[Sexydadbod]

20 minutes ago, Dimmu said:

Shelvey better than Hughes?!

 

9 minutes ago, Derby_EnglandLoyal said:

?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

This season he is. Have you actually watched Shelvey play this season regularly?  Hughes couldn't get near him when we played them at the ipro. Hughes is a talented player but he is not this world class prospect that people think he is. 

[toddy]

Saying Hughes is world class is as daft as saying Martin is a premiership striker!

[Sexydadbod]

24 minutes ago, utisbug said:

Jonjo Shelley is not a better footballer than Will Hughes. 

Will Hughes is a different footballer to Chalobah, Loftus Cheek and Ward Prowse. The way Will Hughes plays football is more common with what you'd see on the continent.

Deli Allí is without doubt a better footballer, but again a different type of midfielder. The culture with which Will Hughes plays his football is what will ultimately give him success. He is unlike most in his position in that manner and will therefore warrant his place in the side. If Will Hughes has the ability to control the game and pull the strings at this age with the right career moves can you imagine how good he will be at 25/26? He's never going to be a marauding Renato Sanches, thats not his style. His ability to tie things together from deep and nudge a game along in the direction he dictates is where his strengths lie. He's modelled himself on Iniesta and thats abundantly obvious. There aren't many midfielders out there that fit his mold, and with football going increasingly the way of a possession based style Will Hughes is going to become an increasingly attractive prospect for top clubs.

You see that's where the problem lies. People think that because there aren't many players like Hughes in England, that there aren't any players like him anywhere else, almost like england is the only league that matters. There are many players like Hughes in foreign leagues. I'm not saying that Hughes is not a good player and never will be, I think he is in the top 5 midfielders in the championship but just not a world class talent! If he had the potential to be world class a top team would have bought him by now!