Will Hughes

[cannable]

4 minutes ago, Alpha said:

Spent about £30m on players since we played QPR 2014

"ain't spent that much"

 

£38,000,000 now! 

[Alph]

16 minutes ago, cannable said:

£38,000,000 now! 

Grant

Cyrus. Keogh. Buxton. Forsyth. Thorne. Hughes. Hendrick. Ward. Russell. Martin

Bryson. Dawkins. Eustace. any I forgot.

Spending £30m + on that? I'm thinking plucky lower midtable PL side at least. 

 

 

We must have looked at what we had and then tried to avoid replacing any of them. Maybe instead of Plan B we were looking to buy an entire new team. Then give then their own manager.

Carson. Baird. Shackell. Pearce. Olsson.Ince. Johnson. Butterfield. Weimann. Bent. Blackman.

That's it!!! 

Derby County and Derby City. 

The element of surprise!!

[Gypsy Ram]

6 minutes ago, Alpha said:

Grant

Cyrus. Keogh. Buxton. Forsyth. Thorne. Hughes. Hendrick. Ward. Russell. Martin

Bryson. Dawkins. Eustace. any I forgot.

Spending £30m + on that? I'm thinking plucky lower midtable PL side at least. 

 

 

We must have looked at what we had and then tried to avoid replacing any of them. Maybe instead of Plan B we were looking to buy an entire new team. Then give then their own manager.

Carson. Baird. Shackell. Pearce. Olsson.Ince. Johnson. Butterfield. Weimann. Bent. Blackman.

That's it!!! 

Derby County and Derby City. 

The element of surprise!!

All that we wanted was a proper replacement for Eustace and we would have been sorted.

[Alph]

8 minutes ago, Gypsy Ram said:

All that we wanted was a proper replacement for Eustace and we would have been sorted.

And we still don't have a natural holding player. And the fourth manager in a row has decided to try and use DM's to free up midfielders. 

It's crazy. 2 years relying on Thorne and Thorne alone. 2 years playing any spare sock there like it's easy peasy. It is easy peasy if you can face the right way, pass at any range, discipline not to go chasing, back up play without overlapping (everyone doing that this season tbf), pressure the ball wide without diving in and can tackle. 

Apart from that, anyone can play there...

[Warren Hobhead]

Why is Hughes excused? 

 

"it's because they were hoofing it" 

 

Why aren't Russell, Butterfield, Ince or Martin excused similarly? You know, the lads who scored/created all our goals last season? 

 

I actually believe our problems are two-fold. 

 

1. Our defenders are awful in possession, all of them. They're a terrible unit when we have the ball. Have a look at them. You get Keogh breaking forward, it looks dynamic but he very rarely does anything positive with it. Shackell is quite possibly the worst distributor of a football I've ever watched and slows everything down to Matrix like speed. Olsson bottles games early on if he gets pushed back. He had the ball more than anyone on Friday night and did nothing with it. Christie is an enigma. He has no idea what he's doing, is my opinion. It's all off the cuff. It comes off here and there but defensively he's a liability. 

It's my belief that everything stems from there. I might be wrong. I probably am. Sad if I'm not though, as that will be our back four all season. 

 

2. I don't think the squad have taken to NP. It's full of flair players, players who like freedom to express themselves. Even our strapping centre forward is a bit temperamental. Not the old skool battering ram he might appear to be. And so the likes of Ince, Hughes and Butterfield look bewildered. Not surprising when they're shifted from position to position by the manager. These are super talented midfielders that would waltz into most sides in this division and flourish. They have done previously, they have done for Derby too. 

It's no surprise to me that Pearson rates Bryson. The lad who runs and grafts without much else. And so yes, I expect the talent to be replaced by more grafters, more athletes. And, I reckon it might work. But not any time soon. So strap in. Could be a long campaign this one. 

 

 

 

And I stand by my first post. Hughes was shocking on Friday. I have my own eyes to judge him. I saw the same at Barnsley. And in the league cup game when on he wasn't up to much. I happen to think he's as good as we've got and love watching him when on song. But unlike some, I'm not going to blow smoke up his backside without reason and I refuse to go about my posting on here as though he's black-listed from criticism. 

 

Wednesday will be interesting. 

 

I just wish our back four saw less of the ball. I honestly see that as the key issue. Move it on, quickly. It's not rocket science.

[TheDeadlySaul]

Press enter once 

[Carl Sagan]

50 minutes ago, Warren Hobhead said:

1. Our defenders are awful in possession, all of them. They're a terrible unit when we have the ball. Have a look at them. You get Keogh breaking forward, it looks dynamic but he very rarely does anything positive with it. Shackell is quite possibly the worst distributor of a football I've ever watched and slows everything down to Matrix like speed. Olsson bottles games early on if he gets pushed back. He had the ball more than anyone on Friday night and did nothing with it. Christie is an enigma. He has no idea what he's doing, is my opinion. It's all off the cuff. It comes off here and there but defensively he's a liability. 

It's my belief that everything stems from there. I might be wrong. I probably am. Sad if I'm not though, as that will be our back four all season. 

I just wish our back four saw less of the ball. I honestly see that as the key issue. Move it on, quickly. It's not rocket science.

A lot of truth in this. So often we just play it around the back four, going backwards and sideways until the opposition has got itself organized and totally prepared for whatever we might throw at them. Which is why we've only scored one league goal this season and hardly created any chances of note. Eventually either Keogh charges forward (but, as Warren says, when has he ever created an opportunity from his barnstorming runs?) or we have the ridiculous sight of either Hughes or (worse still) Bryson dropping deep to receive a three yard pass from the defence to then take it slowly forward. It started with Clement but we've not changed the mindset of a snail's pace back four.

Hughes and Bryson have been playing way too deep in front of them too. The midfield has go to push at least another 10 and maybe 15 yards forward and then the defence has got to take more responsibility for what happens in front of it.

 

 

 

 

[Ninos]

4 hours ago, Warren Hobhead said:

Why is Hughes excused? 

 

"it's because they were hoofing it" 

 

Why aren't Russell, Butterfield, Ince or Martin excused similarly? You know, the lads who scored/created all our goals last season? 

 

I actually believe our problems are two-fold. 

 

1. Our defenders are awful in possession, all of them. They're a terrible unit when we have the ball. Have a look at them. You get Keogh breaking forward, it looks dynamic but he very rarely does anything positive with it. Shackell is quite possibly the worst distributor of a football I've ever watched and slows everything down to Matrix like speed. Olsson bottles games early on if he gets pushed back. He had the ball more than anyone on Friday night and did nothing with it. Christie is an enigma. He has no idea what he's doing, is my opinion. It's all off the cuff. It comes off here and there but defensively he's a liability. 

It's my belief that everything stems from there. I might be wrong. I probably am. Sad if I'm not though, as that will be our back four all season. 

 

2. I don't think the squad have taken to NP. It's full of flair players, players who like freedom to express themselves. Even our strapping centre forward is a bit temperamental. Not the old skool battering ram he might appear to be. And so the likes of Ince, Hughes and Butterfield look bewildered. Not surprising when they're shifted from position to position by the manager. These are super talented midfielders that would waltz into most sides in this division and flourish. They have done previously, they have done for Derby too. 

It's no surprise to me that Pearson rates Bryson. The lad who runs and grafts without much else. And so yes, I expect the talent to be replaced by more grafters, more athletes. And, I reckon it might work. But not any time soon. So strap in. Could be a long campaign this one. 

 

 

 

And I stand by my first post. Hughes was shocking on Friday. I have my own eyes to judge him. I saw the same at Barnsley. And in the league cup game when on he wasn't up to much. I happen to think he's as good as we've got and love watching him when on song. But unlike some, I'm not going to blow smoke up his backside without reason and I refuse to go about my posting on here as though he's black-listed from criticism. 

 

Wednesday will be interesting. 

 

I just wish our back four saw less of the ball. I honestly see that as the key issue. Move it on, quickly. It's not rocket science.

Articulate warren, and has some large kernels of truth as Sagan says, but it's misguided in its emphasis on the root problem. 

The defenders are doing fine. It's a forward problem.

The passing of our defenders is a bit labored yes but that's because they are not champions league class and they don't pass it guardiola style. Keogh still only uses one foot to play for example and shackell is an old skool win it and get rid defender.  They can't move the ball that fluidly. John Stones they are not. Christie and Olsson (and Lowe) are fluid so they just need better end product meaning their crosses etc. 

As for Hughes he's actually doing pretty well protecting the back four its just that his creativity in terms of threading passes that lead to goalsscoring opportunities is limited there. It's not his finest position we all know, even NP knows. Bryson and Hughes are technically gifted and both would flourish at a creative premier league side. Bryson is far more than you say he is. He does drop a bit too deep, but NP has built a defensive behemoth this way. (A good thing)

The problem lies in the areas we are addressing. Our wingers and forward players are poor, very poor so far. Replace Ince Martin Bent and Butterfield with Wilson vydra and ? And you go some way to fixing things. Those players neither graft (all 4) find space (bent Butterfield) or keep the ball (Ince Martin bent). They also need far too many opportunities to score and they still haven't scored (except for an easy bent one v Carlisle). You can't keep being totally unproductive in attack and then turn around and blame defenders. Not buying it. The solution is execution up front.

At Burton, If bent had stayed onside and headed the cross in, Russell shot quicker and scored, camara buried his one, Hughes scored the long ranger, we win 4-1 because we executed. And no one says a word. We need players who given a few chances will execute in front of goal. Blackman and Ince have been unbelievably wasteful in front of goal so far: like incomprehensibly so. Perhaps vydra Wilson and Kodjia? can change this.

 

 

[StringerBell]

59 minutes ago, Ninos said:

Articulate warren, and has some large kernels of truth as Sagan says, but it's misguided in its emphasis on the root problem. 

The defenders are doing fine. It's a forward problem.

The passing of our defenders is a bit labored yes but that's because they are not champions league class and they don't pass it guardiola style. Keogh still only uses one foot to play for example and shackell is an old skool win it and get rid defender.  They can't move the ball that fluidly. John Stones they are not. Christie and Olsson (and Lowe) are fluid so they just need better end product meaning their crosses etc. 

As for Hughes he's actually doing pretty well protecting the back four its just that his creativity in terms of threading passes that lead to goalsscoring opportunities is limited there. It's not his finest position we all know, even NP knows. Bryson and Hughes are technically gifted and both would flourish at a creative premier league side. Bryson is far more than you say he is. He does drop a bit too deep, but NP has built a defensive behemoth this way. (A good thing)

The problem lies in the areas we are addressing. Our wingers and forward players are poor, very poor so far. Replace Ince Martin Bent and Butterfield with Wilson vydra and ? And you go some way to fixing things. Those players neither graft (all 4) find space (bent Butterfield) or keep the ball (Ince Martin bent). They also need far too many opportunities to score and they still haven't scored (except for an easy bent one v Carlisle). You can't keep being totally unproductive in attack and then turn around and blame defenders. Not buying it. The solution is execution up front.

At Burton, If bent had stayed onside and headed the cross in, Russell shot quicker and scored, camara buried his one, Hughes scored the long ranger, we win 4-1 because we executed. And no one says a word. We need players who given a few chances will execute in front of goal. Blackman and Ince have been unbelievably wasteful in front of goal so far: like incomprehensibly so. Perhaps vydra Wilson and Kodjia? can change this.

 

 

I'm not sure he'll agree with you about Butterfield.

[toddy]

The problem is we all relate back to the team of Mac, that season were he got the team to gel, possibly got them playing to their maximum capacity. Midfield of Hughes, Mascarell, Hendrick and Bryson, all the running and link up with Martin play was a joy to watch.

I do remember watching the Wolves game 5-0 and I thought that was some of the best football we played in that season, the running not only with the ball but without it was excellent, where has all that gone?

We haven't really replicated this in the last 2 seasons, we have allegedly added some better midfielders to that squad of 14/15 season. But for the last 2 seasons the midfield players seem flat, tired, there is no movement, the slick passing as all but gone.

I do agree with Ninos regards the strike force - the stats do back it up 67 attempts the majority in the 18 yard box and only 1 league goal, hopefully Vydra might be able to address this, whether it will be Martin and Vydra we'll have to see? - But I do think we have lost the creativity in midfield.

Hughes playing in a DM role, he can do it he is the best we have, but he has no release because Butterfield, Ince and Russell are too deep, flat, static with no movement. And that leaves Martin stuck in front isolated, Burton played 3CB and took him out of the game.[We did see this in parts last season, some saying he had gone missing, no just no support]

Have these players peaked?

Are they actually as good as we think they are, after all they are playing in the championship for a reason?

The players have to take responsibility once they cross that white line.

 

 

[Sparkle]

We have introduced far to many fancy dans or individuals if you like who just don't do the team aspect which affects the others negatively plus we overpaid for a couple of midfielders who are average at best and kept playing them despite their performances. Hughes is now looking like an overrun reserve which I hate saying due to how the side is being deployed.

[EnigmaRam]

22 hours ago, curtains said:

I'm serious what is our record transfer. 

Itemize the money we have spent and tell me who is a waste of money. 

Thorne and Shackell bargains for a start. 

Russell and Butterfield  bargains 

Wiemann bargain  

Johnson 6 million is still a decent fee  

Blackman and Camara bargains  

Ollson  scored against the RED Dogs bargain  

Christie bargain 

Pearce bargain  

 

 

TODAYS MARKET   

Vydra will be a good signing  

Wilson good loan  signing  

 

If you think Blackman and butter field were bargains you need to go get sectioned and live in a padded cell for the rest of your days

[Curtains]

1 minute ago, EnigmaRam said:

If you think Blackman and butter field were bargains you need to go get sectioned and live in a padded cell for the rest of your days

Harsh .

How much did we pay for them in today's market  

Do you hate Derby County players mate. 

[Alph]

As soon as I seen Ninos post I knew it'd be about Martin 

[EnigmaRam]

2 minutes ago, curtains said:

Harsh .

How much did we pay for them in today's market  

Do you hate Derby County players mate. 

Well both cost over 3 million, wasn't butter field 4 mil?

blackman had 6 months left on his contract. 

If you believe they were bargains then your nuts.

i agree with the rest of your post but these two, not a chance.

oh and how much would we get for them in today's market? Sod all if anyone's watched them play

[Ram a lamb a ding dong]

Vfm based on outlay and return

Best value by country mile Bryson, Carson, Martin, Forsyth and Keogh (still core of team after £40M wasted)

Good value Russell and Christie although i would gladly sell both.

Poor value on return thus far are Butters, Johnson, Ince

V poor this far Blackman as no return at all for outlay

Camara starting to show worth.

 

[Curtains]

1 minute ago, EnigmaRam said:

Well both cost over 3 million, wasn't butter field 4 mil?

blackman had 6 months left on his contract. 

If you believe they were bargains then your nuts.

i agree with the rest of your post but these two, not a chance.

oh and how much would we get for them in today's market? Sod all if anyone's watched them play

13 million for Burke tells you what's happening in the transfer market. 

Relax mate Butterfield is great and will prove himself and Harry Redknapp thought Blackman was the next Gareth Bale.  

Give them time they played well against Carlisle. 

[Sith Happens]

1 minute ago, Ram a lamb a ding dong said:

Vfm based on outlay and return

Best value by country mile Bryson, Carson, Martin, Forsyth and Keogh (still core of team after £40M wasted)

Good value Russell and Christie although i would gladly sell both.

Poor value on return thus far are Butters, Johnson, Ince

V poor this far Blackman as no return at all for outlay

Camara starting to show worth.

 

£40 millon wasted? how do you arrive at that figure?

[Sparkle]

9 minutes ago, EnigmaRam said:

If you think Blackman and butter field were bargains you need to go get sectioned and live in a padded cell for the rest of your days

Well I worked for a long time in that very field so a tad harsh, now if we sell them for a big profit then bargains I suppose but I tend to think they have been very poor signings on the pitch, butterfield is no more than a sub or reserve and Blackman extremely lucky to have a job that he is not skilled at.

[Ram a lamb a ding dong]

That was an aside. Killer question is that based on where we are headed will Hughesy succeed in a 442? Me thinks not. Only position is at tip of dismond or behind striker. Now we have Vydra he will play these positions. The only way we can play Hughesy therefore is with a tough tackling foil in the middle. Seeing as we have none does that make him surplus?????? I think so.

Also i want him to progress as he is a talent potentially for England.

I expect Pearson to sell. I would have built my team around him but i do not manage DCFC (at least not yet.....)