cheron85 Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 25 minutes ago, Robbie Ram said: Right on every single point, and all made with great objectivity. Anybody who says otherwise is just being subjective in face of the cold hard facts. Without us getting into another p*****g contest... Which facts? 52 minutes ago, RAMS 1972 said: Burnley last season, he gave away a penalty and an own goal, two mistakes in one game and at pivotal moments in the same game. As soon as you point them out, when people make statements that he does not, they bring up another excuse. Yes, everyone can make a mistake, but unfortunately, Keogh makes more than most. His decision making is poor and his numerous lunging tackles, are because he is always out of position and trying to make amends , with these type of challenges. These type of challenges, have become a part of his game and a major flaw in his game. The better defenders, like good strikers, always seem to be in the right place. This is based on experience and intelligence, unfortunately at 29, Keogh has learnt nothing and is far from an intelligent footballer. Even Buxton, when selected, carried out the team talk in the huddle, what sort of captain allows someone else, carry out their duties ? I heard that when Keogh did carry out a team talk , on some occasions, players burst out laughing, hence Buxton stepping in. I think that 'says' it all really and if he left, re his apparent DCFC contract issues, Derby fans would not be reaching for the Kleenex. The bolded segment happened but the rest is subjective opinion... Everyone is entitled to one but none of the rest is fact... Just opinion... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 The player giving the talk in the huddle changes everytime we lose, it's been the case since before Keogh was even here… in fact, Barker and Shackell were our captains the first season it started. Also, does Shackell taking too long on the ball thus killing any attacking momentum not count as a mistake? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 17 minutes ago, cheron85 said: Keogh picked consistently by 4 (potentially 5) Derby managers and the Ireland manager... In a season where the two played next to each other all year Keogh won 'Player of the year' and 'Players player of the year'... you make it sound like each manager had the pick of ALL the players in the world and picked him first. I think it's more a case of making do with what's available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 4 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said: you make it sound like each manager had the pick of ALL the players in the world and picked him first. I think it's more a case of making do with what's available. He's had competition for his position every season and has still been picked first... Including last season when we brought in a guy who had been his clubs captain and played in the Premier League (Pearce... Realise that could also describe Shackell!) And he was chosen by O'Neil to come in for a very important game for Ireland because he thought the defence had been poor in the game prior... Which shows faith... And he was picked for Ireland ahead of all the other Irish defenders in the world... If that counts for anything... Plus I would suggest that after the spending antics of last season (especially blowing our load on Shackell) there's a fairly good chance Mel would have dug into his pocket if Clement had thought there was a better (realistic) option out there than Keogh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie Ram Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 6 minutes ago, cheron85 said: Without us getting into another p*****g contest... Which facts? The bolded segment happened but the rest is subjective opinion... Everyone is entitled to one but none of the rest is fact... Just opinion... That's better. Managers and coaches make their assessment from how a player conducts themselves in different situations on the pitch. Especially when under pressure, as In the case of defenders. Keogh often panics. Good defenders stay on their feet as long as possible. Unfortunately for us, he frequently doesn't. Logically, once on the ground, any defender is out of the game during an opposition attack. In every game, he goes to ground far too easily, leaving the defence exposed as a result. James Chester would be a good replacement if Keogh gets sold to Fulham. He is an intelligent defender. So let's debate in a friendly manner. No problem. Without getting personal please. After all, we are all supposed to be Rams fans on here. COYR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie Ram Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 23 minutes ago, cannable said: The player giving the talk in the huddle changes everytime we lose, it's been the case since before Keogh was even here… in fact, Barker and Shackell were our captains the first season it started. Also, does Shackell taking too long on the ball thus killing any attacking momentum not count as a mistake? IMO, Buxton was the only real captain this club has had over the last few years. And dreadfully under used in this regard. We may yet come to regret giving him away so easily in the inevitably tough times ahead this season. Shackell dwelling on the ball probably indicates his unwillingness to give away the ball when there is a lack of movement from the players in front of him. This was especially the case during Clement's tenure, with his ultra cautious possession obsessed tactics. It will be very interesting to see what Pearson does about this side of his game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 9 minutes ago, Robbie Ram said: Keogh often panics. Good defenders stay on their feet as long as possible. Unfortunately for us, he frequently doesn't. Logically, once on the ground, any defender is out of the game during an opposition attack. In every game, he goes to ground far too easily, leaving the defence exposed as a result. None of these are facts still... They are subjective opinions... If you were to give me his 'panics per game' ratio or his 'rolling around on the floor' quotient (very high in Chris Martin) then fine... Until then you are just giving us an opinion... Which is fine... Every opinion is worth exactly one opinion... The important one being whoever our manager is... But it's still not a fact... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 1 hour ago, RAMS 1972 said: Burnley last season, he gave away a penalty and an own goal, two mistakes in one game and at pivotal moments in the same game. As soon as you point them out, when people make statements that he does not, they bring up another excuse. Yes, everyone can make a mistake, but unfortunately, Keogh makes more than most. His decision making is poor and his numerous lunging tackles, are because he is always out of position and trying to make amends , with these type of challenges. These type of challenges, have become a part of his game and a major flaw in his game. The better defenders, like good strikers, always seem to be in the right place. This is based on experience and intelligence, unfortunately at 29, Keogh has learnt nothing and is far from an intelligent footballer. Even Buxton, when selected, carried out the team talk in the huddle, what sort of captain allows someone else, carry out their duties ? I heard that when Keogh did carry out a team talk , on some occasions, players burst out laughing, hence Buxton stepping in. I think that 'says' it all really and if he left, re his apparent DCFC contract issues, Derby fans would not be reaching for the Kleenex. Is that the same game Shackell deflected the ball into his own net, gave away a penalty and got turned inside out by Gray before Keogh gave away the penalty trying to cover Shackell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 1 minute ago, rynny said: Is that the same game Shackell deflected the ball into his own net, gave away a penalty and got turned inside out by Gray before Keogh gave away the penalty trying to cover Shackell? Yes... But don't say that... Apparently you're only allowed to bash Keogh... No-one else has ever made a mistake... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maydrakin Posted August 4, 2016 Author Share Posted August 4, 2016 Keogh is not captain material, according to his critics, yet he's been capatin at pretty much every club he's played at and has captained his country. I remember thinking Keogh was always good against us for Coventry and he has been very good for us. He's not Igor Stimac, but no one at the club is anywhere near that level. In a team that works on possession, he is always looking for the ball and always looking to find his man. I fear that those that don't rate Keogh will never see his qualities until he is gone and we look worse for it. Obviously, they will never admit it though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAMS 1972 Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 Tomsdubs Ok TD, you pay a penny, I will pay £10 per mistake, that will help you out, if / when you lose. No excuses now, not even for RK. You make excuses for RK, as well as yourself, the club would go a long way in your hands. Making excuses, does not solve or remove a problem, it still has to be dealt with. However and ultimately, it will not be me or you who will be the Judge, it will be Nigel Pearson. He was a tough and indeed, a great central defender, he knows what to look for in a defender, so we will see what happens. I have the utmost respect and confidence in him, he will do the right thing for the team and the club, nobody will be able to make any excuses. This is what the club has needed, for a very long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 8 minutes ago, RAMS 1972 said: However and ultimately, it will not be me or you who will be the Judge, it will be Nigel Pearson. He was a tough and indeed, a great central defender, he knows what to look for in a defender, so we will see what happens. I have the utmost respect and confidence in him, he will do the right thing for the team and the club, nobody will be able to make any excuses. This is what the club has needed, for a very long time. So by these standards if Pearson starts Keogh on Saturday will you admit he's decent? If you trust Pearson's judgement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsdubs Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 I'll have a nice little smirk on my face as Keogh runs out on Sat then, guess everyone just keeps making excuses for the guy. If facts are excuses that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie Ram Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 25 minutes ago, RAMS 1972 said: Tomsdubs Ok TD, you pay a penny, I will pay £10 per mistake, that will help you out, if / when you lose. No excuses now, not even for RK. You make excuses for RK, as well as yourself, the club would go a long way in your hands. Making excuses, does not solve or remove a problem, it still has to be dealt with. However and ultimately, it will not be me or you who will be the Judge, it will be Nigel Pearson. He was a tough and indeed, a great central defender, he knows what to look for in a defender, so we will see what happens. I have the utmost respect and confidence in him, he will do the right thing for the team and the club, nobody will be able to make any excuses. This is what the club has needed, for a very long time. Yes and yes again. As soon as he sees Keogh flapping, Pearson will be straight on the phone to Fulham, you'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAMS 1972 Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 Cheron85 Presently, we do not have an alternative, because of that, he will be selected. That does not mean, that NP has come to an overall decision on RK and that he is happy with him and the defence, as a whole. NP is still assessing what he has and he will , I am sure, be bringing players in, when that assessment has been completed. The early matches in the Championship, will be a part of that assessment process and I expect him to move, pretty quick, if he sees something amiss. IF RK, is still with us at the end of the season or still in the team, this will be the indicator, of any assessment of RK. If Chester is signed, that may bring matters forward. What I should have stated, re any judgement, is in the medium to long term, as the first match is only a few days away and the defence, has not been added to. Therefore, NP, has to run with what 'experience' in defence, that is at his disposal. Thankfully , we are all entitled to a view, therefore based on the facts and what I have seen, I do not believe, RK , is a reliable defender. Re NP, what would be an indicator of his appraisal of RK, for the first match, would be the captaincy. If he is not the captain on Saturday, then any comment , mine or by others, would then have some substance. Cheron, Your reply, I believe, is the type of reply, that this site was set up for and appreciate the manner in which your question was put to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRam Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 Hope we sign Chester and drop Shackell for him. Then there'd be a full scale meltdown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 If Keogh was so bad why was he the defender with the most amount of clean sheets in the Championship last term - more than Michael Keane, Daniel Ayala, Lewis Dunk and Michael Dawson etc... Also, Keogh was part of the Derby side which broke the successive clean sheets record (this side of the millennium at least) in 2014/15 when we kept about six on the bounce. I'm amazed when people always try and pick faults with him. Yeh, he's certainly not in the same bracket as a Nemanja Vidic in his prime or even somebody like Lamine Kone, but getting better in the Championship will easily cost you £8m plus. Considering we got Keogh for about £1.2m, he has been yet another superb value-for-money signing by NC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie Ram Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 55 minutes ago, rynny said: Is that the same game Shackell deflected the ball into his own net, gave away a penalty and got turned inside out by Gray before Keogh gave away the penalty trying to cover Shackell? In this instance, you're right. They both went walkabout in that match. Each one bottled it in his own way. Quite a shambles that was. The nadir of our season without a shadow of doubt and against one of our arch rivals too. It truly epitomised the spineless mentality then prevailing in our first team squad. Heads will undoubtedly roll if there is ever anything like a repeat of that ruddy debacle. Pearson is one tough cookie. Underneath his smiles for the media and smart corporate suit, he is still a street fighting man at heart. But intelligent as well. I think he may have to use his flamethrower technique on occasions. Fergie's hairdryer routine will have nothing on it!! The bottom line is that, nowadays, very well paid pros like ours are still only spear carriers for the only people who really matter. Us.Without the fans, there is literally no club. Mel Morris said as much when he took over last year, describing himself as a merely a temporary "custodian." I'm pretty sure that Pearson knows this truth too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAMS 1972 Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 Tomdubs The only excuse we have , is that we don't not have an alternative to RK and that you do not have a penny to pay a bet you would lose, sad for DCFC and sad for you. You can't afford to even cry in your beer. RK will drop himself in it, within the first few games, that has always been the case. Unless...... NP can coach some of the flaws out of his game, if he can't, RK will not last long at DCFC, that is a fact and guaranteed with NP. NP is very meticulous and regimental, in his work and if you do not do what he asks, or have the ability, you are out. That is what is should be like and DCFC, will be the better for it and it has been long overdue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CastletonRam Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 7 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said: If Keogh was so bad why was he the defender with the most amount of clean sheets in the Championship last term - more than Michael Keane, Daniel Ayala, Lewis Dunk and Michael Dawson etc... Also, Keogh was part of the Derby side which broke the successive clean sheets record (this side of the millennium at least) in 2014/15 when we kept about six on the bounce. I'm amazed when people always try and pick faults with him. Yeh, he's certainly not in the same bracket as a Nemanja Vidic in his prime or even somebody like Lamine Kone, but getting better in the Championship will easily cost you £8m plus. Considering we got Keogh for about £1.2m, he has been yet another superb value-for-money signing by NC. Lol. But never performed when it mattered. Wembley, 2014/15, Burnley away, play-off first leg against Hull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.