trevor1946 Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 4 years ago we needed 1 centre half --1 central midfielder -1 20 a season goal scorer,and 15 million would have provided them,,,,4 years on,we have 17 million on the bench,no football director,a novice head coach, A recruitment system that is flawed,and a new structure that has failed.after 3 seasons and the yanks gone. Millions yes millions spent,and championship football next season.and things like a proper manager things of the past. once more into the breach they rode After years working to a budget ,I dreamed off investment by the owners,but the premiership is still way-way on the horizon And SaM Rush still has a lucrative 4 years left on his contract,1 manager--3 head coaches-7 coaches--1 director of football. 1 complete american board,all gone to fast track our club into the premier league.millions of poor Mels money wasted. And after 3 seasons we still enjoying championship football,, This guy could teach our Harry a trick or two Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRam Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 Just now, trevor1946 said: 4 years ago we needed 1 centre half --1 central midfielder -1 20 a season goal scorer,and 15 million would have provided them,,,,4 years on,we have 17 million on the bench,no football director,a novice head coach, A recruitment system that is flawed,and a new structure that has failed.after 3 seasons and the yanks gone. Millions yes millions spent,and championship football next season.and things like a proper manager things of the past. once more into the breach they rode After years working to a budget ,I dreamed off investment by the owners,but the premiership is still way-way on the horizon And SaM Rush still has a lucrative 4 years left on his contract,1 manager--3 head coaches-7 coaches--1 director of football. 1 complete american board,all gone to fast track our club into the premier league.millions of poor Mels money wasted. And after 3 seasons we still enjoying championship football,, This guy could teach our Harry a trick or two You're lucky there aren't any good "and then there's this guy" memes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 4 hours ago, Mostyn6 said: I said the whole SPINE of the team needs replacing. Starting with the 'leaders'. I know why you are saying that, but I’m more of the opinion that the SPINE of the team is as good as we’ve had for years Carson – hugely experienced ex-International Keogh/Shackell – looked a solid partnership and totally shored up our defensive record Thorne – great player, horribly unlucky with injuries Hughes – no words required Bryson – massive engine, huge passion and no small amount of skill. Twice been POTS Martin – near on 20 goals a season for 3 straight seasons My opinion is that the SPINE is fine, it’s the team built around it that is lacking. We just don’t seem to have been able to build a consistent team around it. I get that psychologically people want to “move on”, but destroying the spine of the team is a MASSIVE gamble and could take 3 more seasons to fix and consolidate back to where we are now. A new manager who knows this league and has more than one formation is a start. Getting rid of the peripheral players and bringing in the right replacements is the sensible approach. Sell the spine of the team and the rest of the Championship will be laughing as they take them off our hands and watch us struggle to replace them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRam Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 1 hour ago, StivePesley said: I know why you are saying that, but I’m more of the opinion that the SPINE of the team is as good as we’ve had for years Carson – hugely experienced ex-International Keogh/Shackell – looked a solid partnership and totally shored up our defensive record Thorne – great player, horribly unlucky with injuries Hughes – no words required Bryson – massive engine, huge passion and no small amount of skill. Twice been POTS Martin – near on 20 goals a season for 3 straight seasons My opinion is that the SPINE is fine, it’s the team built around it that is lacking. We just don’t seem to have been able to build a consistent team around it. I get that psychologically people want to “move on”, but destroying the spine of the team is a MASSIVE gamble and could take 3 more seasons to fix and consolidate back to where we are now. A new manager who knows this league and has more than one formation is a start. Getting rid of the peripheral players and bringing in the right replacements is the sensible approach. Sell the spine of the team and the rest of the Championship will be laughing as they take them off our hands and watch us struggle to replace them Personally, I don't disagree with your assessment of the players but I think the change that is required is this: Stop building the team/system around Chris Martin, build the team/system around Will Hughes and our midfield. Our current system makes Martin nigh-undroppable, and sure it means he's edging 20 goals every season but at what cost? Would he stop scoring as many if he was no longer the fulcrum? Maybe, but by how many? Building the team around Hughes and the rest of the midfield is focusing on a better player, an area in which we're far more flexible and have far more depth. I also believe it will be far more suited to a lot of the players we have in our squad who don't seem to fit the mould of the McClaren system (most of our signings this season), which lets be honest is what this still is. Just a thought anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B4ev6is Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 You saying derby did not play well last night i dont what game you are watching. Derby were unbelieveable last night and played with so much heart and passion. Players going for me is bird Warnok and peace maybe going back to reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 24 minutes ago, SaintRam said: Personally, I don't disagree with your assessment of the players but I think the change that is required is this: Stop building the team/system around Chris Martin, build the team/system around Will Hughes and our midfield. Our current system makes Martin nigh-undroppable, and sure it means he's edging 20 goals every season but at what cost? Would he stop scoring as many if he was no longer the fulcrum? Maybe, but by how many? Building the team around Hughes and the rest of the midfield is focusing on a better player, an area in which we're far more flexible and have far more depth. I also believe it will be far more suited to a lot of the players we have in our squad who don't seem to fit the mould of the McClaren system (most of our signings this season), which lets be honest is what this still is. Just a thought anyway. For what it's worth, I should have added that we could maybe lose one (and at a push two) of the "spine" and replace them with proven quality players - just not ALL of them as the OP seems to suggest. Martin would indeed be the obvious one to move on, purely from the tactical perspective - even though it's counter-intuitive to sell your proven 20 goals-a-season man and hope his replacement does the same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninos Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 22 minutes ago, SaintRam said: Personally, I don't disagree with your assessment of the players but I think the change that is required is this: Stop building the team/system around Chris Martin, build the team/system around Will Hughes and our midfield. Our current system makes Martin nigh-undroppable, and sure it means he's edging 20 goals every season but at what cost? Would he stop scoring as many if he was no longer the fulcrum? Maybe, but by how many? Building the team around Hughes and the rest of the midfield is focusing on a better player, an area in which we're far more flexible and have far more depth. I also believe it will be far more suited to a lot of the players we have in our squad who don't seem to fit the mould of the McClaren system (most of our signings this season), which lets be honest is what this still is. Just a thought anyway. Yes. I'm irritated ... Again. Yes I'm proud of the effort and the boys having a go. However that result counts for nothing. Reality is that if we lost 0-1 at home we would have kept possession on tues, dominated and drew 0-0. This team bottles. The team and coaching staff have managed to bottle it three years in a row. The one common theme is that when the big games come, we have a centre forward that goes AWOL. He either doesn't show up or doesn't deliver the goods when we need him to. Martin worked hard by his standards in the first half it pleased us but in the second half he just packed up. It was amazing to me. Players killing themselves and he couldnt be bothered to put a tackle in or run for the ball. The one time he actually tries he gets to the line and almost sets up a goal. On the last play of the game he hits the guy in the back and with a sloppy and stupid foul finishes any last gasp chance we have. And we defend him with he didn't have good service - please. Good strikers don't always need perfect service, but he does. you build a team around a loser of a striker with no pace no hustle no fight no heart - a mediocre player at best - you're never going to win anything. Top teams have lethal strikers and we need one. It's time to end the Martin experiment. the other major problem is the coaching and between these last three managers - Mclaren clement and wassall - we've had about the worst trio imaginable. Game management, constantly outwitted, negative, inability to teach the team how to do set pieces, bottlers, none were winners. Derby fans are brilliant in that they stick by their team and its players but they forget how green the grass could be if we had one great striker or if we had an attacking minded manager but one who was always the one out foxing not the one who bottled his tactics in mind boggling ways - that ain't Mclaren. Bryson Hughes Thorne Christie Russell would be absolutely my 5 players to build next years team on. Add Calero and Zanzala and Hanson, possibly Rawson. Obviously Keogh olssen Carson havent done too badly this year either but I don't mind them going. Keogh is one of my fave players but he's led failure too much now. I see a great future for us but we need the courage to make big changes, build a team of winners who always outwork the other team, and with a manager who we always know will out fox the other guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosmic Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 1 hour ago, B4ev6is said: You saying derby did not play well last night i dont what game you are watching. Derby were unbelieveable last night and played with so much heart and passion. Players going for me is bird Warnok and peace maybe going back to reading. Agree for the most part. All I am saying, is give peace a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 I hope we do go again and do exactly the same. Give me failing at the final hurdle in the Championship over ten years of being a West Brom in the Premier League anyday of the week. Exciting football, likeable players (well, some) and an ability to go anywhere and win... Prem is overrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagerbob Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 Absolute rubbish. Blaiming wassall for not getting autos, when the autos had gone when he came in. If PC couldnt work with Mel and mel didnt like what PC was doing with regards to the tactics and signings, then thats that He asked for wassall to bring stability and qualify for the playoffs, which he did. Give wassall a full season a good pre-season a season without major injuries to forsyth hughes and bryson and we might just go up. For the times our high pressing game isnt working, or we lack fitness or the right personnel or whatever, a guy who is a naturtal in the Thorne position is a must. Plus cover at fullback for when Baird leaves us. If you want to change the system completely you are a fool. We have a lot of players who really only suit one system and they are tied down to long contracts. If the new manager wants us to play differently he will need money and I for one dont think Mel would back that kind of a regime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sexydadbod Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 7 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said: I hope we do go again and do exactly the same. Give me failing at the final hurdle in the Championship over ten years of being a West Brom in the Premier League anyday of the week. Exciting football, likeable players (well, some) and an ability to go anywhere and win... Prem is overrated. Disagree buddy. Whole purpose of football is to achieve the best that you can. Don't buy this rubbish that if we go up we will be struggling every year, who knows we might do a southamptom in a few years? We have a owner who is willing to spend unlike West Brom. It's just a matter of getting out of this league then let the good times roll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwram1973 Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 7 hours ago, climbon said: Is 4th best defence in the league what we want?? Surely our ambition is automatics so we want top 2 defence...therefore it needs improving. My point was that most of the dullards on here that have been blaming our failure on Keogh and Shackell, when in fact our defence isn't that bad, and the fact that our CB won 2 POTY awards surely means to most of us level headed supporters that the defence wasn't the problem. Then when you consider Fulham scored the same amount of goals as us but finished 5th bottom proves that our defence WAS good enough. My opinion is we didn't score enough, stick another 10 goals in over the season, which isn't many tbh and things could of been a lot different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 5 minutes ago, McLovin said: Disagree buddy. Whole purpose of football is to achieve the best that you can. Don't buy this rubbish that if we go up we will be struggling every year, who knows we might do a southamptom in a few years? We have a owner who is willing to spend unlike West Brom. It's just a matter of getting out of this league then let the good times roll. Think it has become a matter of custom. We've spent somelike like 15 of the last 16 seasons in the Championship, and the one time we spent in the PL was a complete disaster. I've forgotten what it was like to watch Derby actually succeed in the Premier League. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B4ev6is Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 Under jim smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastStandRam Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 26 minutes ago, mwram1973 said: My point was that most of the dullards on here that have been blaming our failure on Keogh and Shackell, when in fact our defence isn't that bad, and the fact that our CB won 2 POTY awards surely means to most of us level headed supporters that the defence wasn't the problem. Then when you consider Fulham scored the same amount of goals as us but finished 5th bottom proves that our defence WAS good enough. My opinion is we didn't score enough, stick another 10 goals in over the season, which isn't many tbh and things could of been a lot different. I completely agree! While you could look at our defence being bad for the odd few games, Burnley away, Birmingham at home, Hull 1st leg. It is also a lot better than teams such as Fulham who scored the same goals as us (66) and Brentford who scored 72 goals. However the problem is we drew games we should have won and lost games we could have drawn. We have Bent but he is getting a bit old now and I have lost count how many times he has been offside. My point being it is not our defence to blame it is because we don't have someone with the bottle to find us the winner or equalizer, think how many times we brought Blackman and Bent on and they did nothing, apart from the goals against Sheff Wed and MK Dons! However we had the 5th best defence in the league conceding 43 goals. Not quite top 2 which we should be aiming at! So perhaps we could do with sharpening it, either in the market or with a manager who knows how to defend! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 1 hour ago, mwram1973 said: My point was that most of the dullards on here that have been blaming our failure on Keogh and Shackell, when in fact our defence isn't that bad, and the fact that our CB won 2 POTY awards surely means to most of us level headed supporters that the defence wasn't the problem. Then when you consider Fulham scored the same amount of goals as us but finished 5th bottom proves that our defence WAS good enough. My opinion is we didn't score enough, stick another 10 goals in over the season, which isn't many tbh and things could of been a lot different. he won more than two players player fans player supporters club player I'm sure there was another too they cant all be wrong. In the words of my dad "eat ****, 5 million flies cant be wrong" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posh Ram Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 1 hour ago, McLovin said: Disagree buddy. Whole purpose of football is to achieve the best that you can. Don't buy this rubbish that if we go up we will be struggling every year, who knows we might do a southamptom in a few years? We have a owner who is willing to spend unlike West Brom. It's just a matter of getting out of this league then let the good times roll. Exactly, look at Leicester/West Ham... got up playing carp football now Leicester are champions of England and West Ham have bid £31m for Lacazette... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam the Ram Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 3 hours ago, SaintRam said: Personally, I don't disagree with your assessment of the players but I think the change that is required is this: Stop building the team/system around Chris Martin, build the team/system around Will Hughes and our midfield. Our current system makes Martin nigh-undroppable, and sure it means he's edging 20 goals every season but at what cost? Would he stop scoring as many if he was no longer the fulcrum? Maybe, but by how many? Building the team around Hughes and the rest of the midfield is focusing on a better player, an area in which we're far more flexible and have far more depth. I also believe it will be far more suited to a lot of the players we have in our squad who don't seem to fit the mould of the McClaren system (most of our signings this season), which lets be honest is what this still is. Just a thought anyway. Amen. I'm a massive Martin fan, but when he has an off day, so does the whole team. People need to stop worrying about the defence (if it aint broke, don't fix it) and instead start worrying about the attack. The wingers have had incredible seasons statistically, but like the rest of the team, they dipped in form at the exact same time as Martin. During the 18 games in which Martin scored just 1 goal (the penalty against Brighton), Russell only scored 1 and Ince got 5. 7 goals in 18 games from our main attacking threats (10 if you also include Bent, Weimann, Blackman and Camara's stats for Derby during that period). I hope Wassall or the next manager can implement a system that doesn't rely so heavily on Martin, but does still include him and hopefully doesn't restrict his ability .... but either way, something needs to change up front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derbyram1983 Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 Biggest thing is a fast quality striker. Well get no where with Martin. This is where the lack of penetration comes from. We need to ship out Johnson and butters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
top 6 finish Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 Martin didn't get 20 goals did he? Thought it was nearer 15. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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