Warren Hobhead Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 On 16/02/2017 at 19:04, Ninos said: Problem is not the defence although they can't pass but hey, if they could they wouldn't be plying their trade in this division. Having Butterfield in the lineup will cost us every game. He's a lightweight who offers close to zero going forward and less than zero defending. He's a major flaw to our defensive work. Otherwise it's the manager that's costing us. Throwing Leicester and then expecting Has Butterfield killed your cat or something? Even in an unrelated thread, you're still at him. We were getting hammered in midfield against Bristol before Mac brought him on. He ran the game thereafter, involved in all three goals and nearly scored the winner. Against Cardiff he was our best player again by some margin. The criticism he gets from our 'supporters' is astonishing. Will Hughes had the single worst game I've seen this season from any footballer in the Cardiff game. Barely had a mention and certainly no stick. Because "oh, he's clearly not fit." I comfort myself when reading the endless tirade about Butters and Keogh etc by remembering those doing the knocking aren't the brightest of bulbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 Just now, RoyMac5 said: I'd prefer someone else as skipper. But yeah he's good enough to go up with us! If only you could spend a bit of time training him to your standards Roy Mac! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsdubs Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 2 minutes ago, Warren Hobhead said: Has Butterfield killed your cat or something? Even in an unrelated thread, you're still at him. We were getting hammered in midfield against Bristol before Mac brought him on. He ran the game thereafter, involved in all three goals and nearly scored the winner. Against Cardiff he was our best player again by some margin. The criticism he gets from our 'supporters' is astonishing. Will Hughes had the single worst game I've seen this season from any footballer in the Cardiff game. Barely had a mention and certainly no stick. Because "oh, he's clearly not fit." I comfort myself when reading the endless tirade about Butters and Keogh etc by remembering those doing the knocking aren't the brightest of bulbs. We have one of the worst fanbases for this kind of stuff. Some clubs the fans get behind their players no matter what, as long as they see effort then they'll back them all the way. Not here, we slaughter them when they try and then kick them while they're down. Don't get me started on the South Stand only sing when we're winning crew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadioactiveWaste Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 Keogh is one of those championship players who does outstanding things a lot of the time but also not so good, the not good being just enough to stop prem teams signing him up. Premier league 80℅ of the game, non league 20℅ but many other players won't get you that 80℅ and just be 2nd division level all the time. His critics only see the bad stuff and make it the whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadioactiveWaste Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 Mods, can we have a poll: Does Keogh's good defending save more goals than his bad defending costs? Yes/no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEL Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 On Thursday, February 16, 2017 at 19:04, Ninos said: Problem is not the defence although they can't pass but hey, if they could they wouldn't be plying their trade in this division. Having Butterfield in the lineup will cost us every game. He's a lightweight who offers close to zero going forward and less than zero defending. He's a major flaw to our defensive work. Otherwise it's the manager that's costing us. Throwing Leicester and then expecting Dear oh dear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coneheadjohn Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 Butters was great when he came on against Bristol City. So was Keogh 2nd half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEL Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 1 minute ago, coneheadjohn said: Butters was great when he came on against Bristol City. So was Keogh 2nd half. Butters was great last 3 games Cardiff Bristol City and Leicester.. He almost got the winner against Bristol City I thought that was going in lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninos Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 3 hours ago, Warren Hobhead said: Has Butterfield killed your cat or something? Even in an unrelated thread, you're still at him. We were getting hammered in midfield against Bristol before Mac brought him on. He ran the game thereafter, involved in all three goals and nearly scored the winner. Against Cardiff he was our best player again by some margin. The criticism he gets from our 'supporters' is astonishing. Will Hughes had the single worst game I've seen this season from any footballer in the Cardiff game. Barely had a mention and certainly no stick. Because "oh, he's clearly not fit." I comfort myself when reading the endless tirade about Butters and Keogh etc by remembering those doing the knocking aren't the brightest of bulbs. Okay Mr Bright Bulb, if my cat is defined as my burning love of quality football, then yes he's killed the cat. No movement off the ball cant tackle can't head can't score runs sideways backwards passes sideways backwards, has the most ridiculous habit of running towards the player he passes the ball to, what is there to like about this guy ? His goalscoring? Even Timi Elsnik is far better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninos Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 3 hours ago, tomsdubs said: We have one of the worst fanbases for this kind of stuff. Some clubs the fans get behind their players no matter what, as long as they see effort then they'll back them all the way. Not here, we slaughter them when they try and then kick them while they're down. Don't get me started on the South Stand only sing when we're winning crew. I disagree with all this cliche fan bashing. Even Mel himself is clearly disappointed with our pitch performances over the past few seasons. He's sacked managers hasn't he? Gone into the dressing room! We have a right to express our frustrations if we pay £600 a season plus away game costs to support such a highly paid group like this. The fans aren't the ones who need to raise their game : it's the staff and the players. People have opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsdubs Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 9 minutes ago, Ninos said: I disagree with all this cliche fan bashing. Even Mel himself is clearly disappointed with our pitch performances over the past few seasons. He's sacked managers hasn't he? Gone into the dressing room! We have a right to express our frustrations if we pay £600 a season plus away game costs to support such a highly paid group like this. The fans aren't the ones who need to raise their game : it's the staff and the players. People have opinions. I think you are overlooking the dynamics and nuance in football. There is more to football than that and if you don't think the atmosphere around a club and its fans doesn't affect the players mentality then you are out of touch. This league is super competitive this year and you can see the toll the pressure on the players is taking in the last two home games. Expectation ever since Mac's first season has been ridiculous around here. I standby everything I said and if I remember correctly you live abroad right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninos Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 24 minutes ago, tomsdubs said: I think you are overlooking the dynamics and nuance in football. There is more to football than that and if you don't think the atmosphere around a club and its fans doesn't affect the players mentality then you are out of touch. This league is super competitive this year and you can see the toll the pressure on the players is taking in the last two home games. Expectation ever since Mac's first season has been ridiculous around here. I standby everything I said and if I remember correctly you live abroad right? No I don't. I'm at the games - and im not one who boos and stuff but seriously they're professionals who get paid a lot - acting like fans make this massive difference is just mostly false and boring. it was all fans then how did Bournemouth get to the PL. picking on fans is just something that's trendy because it doesn't generate enough emotion to have a disagreement over. "Get behind the team" bla bla . I do that anyway at the game, I don't need donkeys telling me I have to. And I don't moan and groan at Butterfield at the game ; that's what the forum is for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsdubs Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 19 minutes ago, Ninos said: No I don't. I'm at the games - and im not one who boos and stuff but seriously they're professionals who get paid a lot - acting like fans make this massive difference is just mostly false and boring. it was all fans then how did Bournemouth get to the PL. picking on fans is just something that's trendy because it doesn't generate enough emotion to have a disagreement over. "Get behind the team" bla bla . I do that anyway at the game, I don't need donkeys telling me I have to. And I don't moan and groan at Butterfield at the game ; that's what the forum is for. The one season the fans got behind the players when we expected a nothing season we should have made it. Since then all we've done is jump on players as soon as they drop form. We've changed the players and it's still the same exact scenario. I'm the same as you, never boo. Bournemouth we're just happy to be on a roller coaster ride just like us at first, the amount of fans makes no difference that's not the point is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninos Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 3 minutes ago, tomsdubs said: The one season the fans got behind the players when we expected a nothing season we should have made it. Since then all we've done is jump on players as soon as they drop form. We've changed the players and it's still the same exact scenario. I'm the same as you, never boo. Bournemouth we're just happy to be on a roller coaster ride just like us at first, the amount of fans makes no difference that's not the point is it? Fans like to think they are super relevant and so your assumptions feed into that. Our failures are truly epic in the past few seasons given our size and the money we spend relative to our competitors and I don't think anyone in their right mind would suggest this has a jot to do with the fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrdave85 Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 1 minute ago, Ninos said: Fans like to think they are super relevant and so your assumptions feed into that. Our failures are truly epic in the past few seasons given our size and the money we spend relative to our competitors and I don't think anyone in their right mind would suggest this has a jot to do with the fans. Forest are epic failures if you wish to talk about spend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 3 minutes ago, Ninos said: Fans like to think they are super relevant and so your assumptions feed into that. Our failures are truly epic in the past few seasons given our size and the money we spend relative to our competitors and I don't think anyone in their right mind would suggest this has a jot to do with the fans. The fans make a difference. How much of a difference (positive/negative) is open to debate. But only a fool would think the fans make no difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsdubs Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 4 minutes ago, Ninos said: Fans like to think they are super relevant and so your assumptions feed into that. Our failures are truly epic in the past few seasons given our size and the money we spend relative to our competitors and I don't think anyone in their right mind would suggest this has a jot to do with the fans. Our spend is unrelated though, I've been quite vocal about our embarrassing recruitment over the last couple of years. But if the players keep changing and the mental collapses keep happening then apply some logic. The fans are unrecognisable in attitude compared to pre Mac first stint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highgate Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 6 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: The fans make a difference. How much of a difference (positive/negative) is open to debate. But only a fool would think the fans make no difference. True. Seeing as home advantage is such a reliable factor in football and sport in general, there has to something to it. Surely having the home fans on your side is part of what 'home' advantage is. It's amazing what people can do with a bit of encouragement. Football players are human beings, not machines, they are bound to respond to the environment around them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninos Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 26 minutes ago, mrdave85 said: Forest are epic failures if you wish to talk about spend They're just pathetic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PodgeyRam Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 Love Keogh. One of the best defenders I've seen play for Derby in my 10 years supporting them - Bucko is obviously the best. Best defender we have at the moment, crucial when bringing the ball out of defence and even though I haven't been able to make recent games, still one of our best performers despite the goals against us. Never hides, always willing to at least try and grab the game by the balls. He's not the problem. Sort out other areas of the team before turning on our captain and the man who has the most appearances at the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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