Rammeister Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 By my calculations we've spent 52 seasons in the Championship (or equivalent) and 65 seasons in the top division. Taking into account in the early years of the football league in the 19th Century there was no relegation it's fair to say we have spent pretty much an equal of time between the top division and those below since. So, the questions are - 1) Are we pretty much where we should be at the moment? 2) Do we have unrealistic expectations based wholly on the fact we had an exceptional purple patch in the 1970s when we managed by a bona fide genius? 3) Or are we chronic underperformers given our fanbase? Over to you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Ram Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 No .. in my head i always think we are a mid table premier league side. A swansea, a stoke, someone of that nature we have a good season we finish 8th a bad season we narrowly avoid relegation. However the earliest i can really remember is Jim Smith so maybe thats blinded my expetation of where i think we should be. Ive been spoilt, little did i know as a young lad that watching wanchope and stimac etc would be considered our 'glory years' of me watching the rams so far in my lifetime Regarding this season id say no i have higher expectation i was hoping we'd be top two but their are no guarentees in football i'll now get my tin hat and wait for the comments "Go supports a mid table prem side" "half fan" "we're exactly where we should be" "What makes you think after 8th last year we'd be top two" followed by arguments and another thread dedicated to Mel Morris, 25mil, paul clement, darren wassall ... Repeat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 Despite what they might say about 'fanbase' being worth a goal start, I don't think it gives us any sort of advantage. In fact, the expectation is probably a hindrance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inglorius Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 I could never understand how people can make a direct correlation between having a large fanbase and relative league placing. Over the past 50 years we've probably spent more time out of the top flight then in it QED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Mills Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 1) I think that we are below where we think we should be. The majority of fans probably think we should be in a relegation battle in the premier league, I doubt many people will be expecting us to be mid table any time soon. 2) I don't think many people, if any are basing their 2016 expectations on something that happened 40+ years ago. I think the expectations are more based around 2013/14 season and the amount of money spent. Also, the hype from Mel Morris and the club pushing us to believe we are going up. 3) again, probably slight underperformers, but I'd say that our fan base size, global recognition etc probably puts us somewhere between where we are now and a low PL side. I wouldn't say we are out of place in the Championship though. Overall I'd say that due to the last 2 seasons after 2013/14 we are slight underperformers, but in terms of size of the club we are probably about where we should be, and if not only a little below. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North East Ram Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 17 minutes ago, eddie said: Despite what they might say about 'fanbase' being worth a goal start, I don't think it gives us any sort of advantage. In fact, the expectation is probably a hindrance. Sad but true Eddie. It could work so well for us but unfortunately, in the majority of times over the last 10 years, its worked against us. On the odd occasion, usually when times are good, home support can be excellent. Away from is better but I think that's down to the 'day out' factor. Certainly is for me anyway. However, which teams in the top divs really unconditionally back their team at home 100%? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angieram Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 If everyone was where they should be there would be no point going to watch football. I think we are about where we might expect to be given our recent history - this is the toughest league to get out of in football. We currently have the ambition to progress further and we will keep trying to get where we want to be. I hope that fans appreciate that ambition and recognise we have no right to promotion - we have to earn it. If we don't get it this year we will change things up and go again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew James Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 No, for some reason people talk about experience, we will learn from the Wembley defeat, last years collapse and come back stronger. It clearly looks like we don't have the right blend of rock hard experienced no nonsense players, even Joey Barton is doing wonders for Burnley, Huth for Leicester and our players don't thrive in front of our fantastic loyal 30,000 support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 1 hour ago, Tim Bucktoo said: Sad but true Eddie. It could work so well for us but unfortunately, in the majority of times over the last 10 years, its worked against us. On the odd occasion, usually when times are good, home support can be excellent. Away from is better but I think that's down to the 'day out' factor. Certainly is for me anyway. However, which teams in the top divs really unconditionally back their team at home 100%? Fingers of one hand - Palace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 My formative years were spent watching a Derby team that was better than Arsenal, Man City, Chelsea, Liverpool and Man Utd so I refuse to accept mid table premiership obscurity. Even when we were 3-0 down at Cambridge United in 1980 I thought it was just a blip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 2 hours ago, Andrew James said: No, for some reason people talk about experience, we will learn from the Wembley defeat, last years collapse and come back stronger. It clearly looks like we don't have the right blend of rock hard experienced no nonsense players, even Joey Barton is doing wonders for Burnley, Huth for Leicester and our players don't thrive in front of our fantastic loyal 30,000 support. You've not been in a while, have you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuespachRam Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 We are pretty much exactly where we should be I think. Anywhere from top half of the second division to bottom third of division 1 is where we should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archied Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 2 hours ago, uttoxram75 said: My formative years were spent watching a Derby team that was better than Arsenal, Man City, Chelsea, Liverpool and Man Utd so I refuse to accept mid table premiership obscurity. Even when we were 3-0 down at Cambridge United in 1980 I thought it was just a blip. Yep same for me ,, I don't ness see it as where we should be ,more of where we could be,, ffs Chelsea were never considered the big club they are now ,, West Ham were better supported ,, they just got lucky with Roman at the time prem money starting taking off and it's taken them to where they are now ,, Derby have been the best in the land and could easily be up amongst the best again with the right people in charge and investing ( really hoping that's Mel Morris) the money up there in the prem is now making it possible to build a team that can really challenge the so called big boys with quality football not just the old Stoke model of rough them up and defend, a club like Derby could really take off and be amongst them given our starting point now in terms of fan base , set up ,facilities and history ,,, ,, now I don't feel any intitlement but don't dare tell me we are a small club that it can't ever happen for again,,, it can given the right owners ,,, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rammeister Posted March 10, 2016 Author Share Posted March 10, 2016 6 hours ago, archied said: Yep same for me ,, I don't ness see it as where we should be ,more of where we could be,, ffs Chelsea were never considered the big club they are now ,, West Ham were better supported ,, they just got lucky with Roman at the time prem money starting taking off and it's taken them to where they are now ,, Derby have been the best in the land and could easily be up amongst the best again with the right people in charge and investing ( really hoping that's Mel Morris) the money up there in the prem is now making it possible to build a team that can really challenge the so called big boys with quality football not just the old Stoke model of rough them up and defend, a club like Derby could really take off and be amongst them given our starting point now in terms of fan base , set up ,facilities and history ,,, ,, now I don't feel any intitlement but don't dare tell me we are a small club that it can't ever happen for again,,, it can given the right owners ,,, I hope you're right. When I was a young kid I thought it was normal for Derby to win the league and play in Europe. Tommy Docherty's outrageous 'managing' of the club ended all that. Since then- 40 years ago- we have had two glimpses of potentially building something special. Once under Arthur Cox when we actually finished as high as 5th and under Jim Smith helped by SMC when if memory serves we finished 8th. Also, interesting to note that SMC has the highest win percentage of any manager in the history of the club (excluding Ted Magner who was in charge for 11 games). Since Dave Mackay we have 18 proper managers/head coaches (not including temporary appointments) and other than under Cox and Smith, nothing of any real note has been achieved. Yes, there's been close run things, playoffs and so on but nothing sustainable. Just leads me to believe the next manager appointment is absolutely critical and I question whether most of the names quoted and touted would really make a difference given the context of our historical inability to appoint people who can do what Cox and Smith did- whatever the resources available. I hope Mel surprises us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zag zig Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 13 hours ago, eddie said: Despite what they might say about 'fanbase' being worth a goal start, I don't think it gives us any sort of advantage. In fact, the expectation is probably a hindrance. Whereas low "fanbase"and expectation is a positive advantage, as league 1 currently proves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 No . Cant believe we could be playing Burton in the Championship next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North East Ram Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 11 hours ago, eddie said: Fingers of one hand - Palace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North East Ram Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 The Holmeside in particular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRam Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North East Ram Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 9 hours ago, MuespachRam said: We are pretty much exactly where we should be I think. Anywhere from top half of the second division to bottom third of division 1 is where we should be. Probably about right. When I speak to non Derby supporting mates, they tend to think we should be in the top division but maybe that's just politeness. I'm sure if I supported Shef Wed then the opinion would be the same, especially as we're all '40 ish'. Derby have been in a topsy turvy cycle of promotion and relegation since the 19th century, so we are currently on par. Hopefully that also means that another promotion is just around the corner. What would be interesting would be for fans of other clubs to be honest in response to the question 'are we where we should be?'. I wonder where fans of say Stoke, Swansea, Shef Wed, Sunderland, forest, Newcastle, Bolton, Shef Utd etc, think they should be? Also interesting to see what fans of other clubs think where our teams should be. Obviously, depends on where you live and rivalry etc and also age too as for example there's a generation of sky subscribers who believe Newcastle are massive and natural born entertainers - just because Richard Keys said so in 1996. I spoke to a (non derby supporting) bloke at work last week who said he liked our bald eagle team - especially Malcolm Christie! I liked Christie too but I really thought Wanchope, Igor, Eranio or Kinky would be the first to be mentioned. Mind you, as I point out to my forest mates, their players I enjoyed most were Silenzi, Rosario, Lee and Thomas. It's all subjective but what people do t always realise is - 'we're Derby County, Derby County FC, the greatest team the world has ever seen' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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