POLL: Clement's position

[robglosta]

End of the season, and if replaced then ONLY for someone with experience of the league.  But..

The one thing that is really grinding my gears is how all of this insight and analysis on the opposition, which is supposedly being pumped into Clement's tactics, is having no impact.  

Last night being a classic example - Clement moans that they came for a point, that's what they left with.  Good tactics.  As opposed to us, went for the win (using all of this opposition insight) and couldn't break them down, but worse than that mustered 0 shots on target.  What was the game plan? Keep the ball and score a worldie? 

Against Boro, Brum, Burnley - neither came to shut up shop? They played to score more than us and did that in spades.  What was the insight that fed into those matches?

It's all well and good saying the right words as a manager, reading the right books, but it's that magic ingredient of bringing multiple pieces of a puzzle together for 90 mins a week that is the real task.  I'm not sure he is up to it, but I'm not sure he isn't.  Yet.          

[SaintRam]

Just now, Mafiabob said:

I would be extremely disappointed if Mel wields the axe....

That would be 2 managers in 8 months if that was the case and what some on here want.... We used to laugh at Forest and Leeds for doing the same and laugh at "crazy" owners.... All hypothetical at moment as Clement is still here. But some fans want that.

When Mac first left, I was extremely disappointed in him going.... We don't really know the ins/outs of what happened with Newcastle contary to what we debated to death on here and various other platforms.... 

I was worried about the speed and change we made when we first appointed Clement and how quickly we were signing players left right and centre. I mentioned this on numerous occasions... I also mentioned to many fans "be careful what you wish for"

I was prepared however to support my club and see how it all panned out... It was going to take time for us to get settled again. And I'm still very happy Clement is still here.

Now 8 months down the line we have people wanting him out.... One winless month and we are firing shots at him. I maybe not the biggest Clement fan and I've criticised at times what he's done so far this season.... But give the guy time... I can understand if this was end of the season and we've managed to come 11th place winning and losing same amount of games.... But we're still well in the promotion race despite some poor games recently.

Problem I've got is the I want mentality of us lot... We're so fickle its unbelievable. I imagine we can bring up any number of threads in past few months praising what Clement et al have done... 

This may sound like a B4 rallying call but time has come to really get behind everyone connected to the club instead of squabbling over little stats proving they are right, arguing which stand in the ground should start singing.... And quite frankly stop being spoilt little brats every time something goes wrong, which quite frankly, has been the exception rather the norm this season.

Time to grow a pair Rams fans and tough it out...

Or we can always chuck Clement and end up back where we started again and take time to settle yet again... 

Over to you.. The fans... And most importantly Mel.... Do the right thing... And keep Paul.

 

We just have to hope Mel sticks to his guns and doesn't get swayed by the loud-mouth minority.

Also, what are you doing on here posting serious input? 

[SaintRam]

Just now, robglosta said:

End of the season, and if replaced then ONLY for someone with experience of the league.  But..

The one thing that is really grinding my gears is how all of this insight and analysis on the opposition, which is supposedly being pumped into Clement's tactics, is having no impact.  

Last night being a classic example - Clement moans that they came for a point, that's what they left with.  Good tactics.  As opposed to us, went for the win (using all of this opposition insight) and couldn't break them down, but worse than that mustered 0 shots on target.  What was the game plan? Keep the ball and score a worldie? 

Against Boro, Brum, Burnley - neither came to shut up shop? They played to score more than us and did that in spades.  What was the insight that fed into those matches?

It's all well and good saying the right words as a manager, reading the right books, but it's that magic ingredient of bringing multiple pieces of a puzzle together for 90 mins a week that is the real task.  I'm not sure he is up to it, but I'm not sure he isn't.  Yet.          

If we get to the end of the season, unpromoted, but with a huge improvement in performances I'll want to see him have a crack next season. Probs until Christmas.

If we get to the end of the season, unpromoted and without an improvement (even staying competitive with ground out results) I will probably be reluctantly in the "get someone with experience in" camp. 

If we're promoted or unpromoted while failing to be competitive then the decision both ways is easy. 

[Ramshankered]

Has Mel voted on this poll yet?

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

If we don't get a result on Saturday more fans will want a new man in charge. Why wait until the end of the season to replace him when we could be given a chance with a manager who knows the English leagues and what it takes to get out of them.

He is struggling now, imagine the heartache when we lose either in the semi's or final of the Play Offs. Three seasons on the trot is hard to take. 

Not once have we really been entertained this season. The back of my seat at the iPro is the cleanest its ever been.

[MuespachRam]

32 minutes ago, Jon_Grooves said:

he should be here until the end of NEXT season. Its in my head now that we might not might the play offs and thats ok with me. Re group in pre season, let clement get the squad together that he wants with his style of play and then try again next season

You are seriously saying that if we fail to make the top 6 of this rubbish league after blowing 30 odd million on the squad that you would be ok with it..!??? Are you on drugs.? My dog could get us into the play offs with that much money and the squad he had originally. 

[SaintRam]

Just now, CHCDerby said:

If we don't get a result on Saturday more fans will want a new man in charge. Why wait until the end of the season to replace him when we could be given a chance with a manager who knows the English leagues and what it takes to get out of them.

He is struggling now, imagine the heartache when we lose either in the semi's or final of the Play Offs. Three seasons on the trot is hard to take. 

Not once have we really been entertained this season. The back of my seat at the iPro is the cleanest its ever been.

More fans sure, but still not the majority imo. We aren't entitled to success, I think there have been mistakes made by Derby (the club as a whole) that could mean we don't get promoted in a season when we had a good chance of achieving it, but that doesn't mean it can't be rectified with the same team. 

I'm not talking about you here, CHC, but a lot of fans seemed to have this impression that this was going to be an easy ride for the foreseeable future and that success was a given. Which is just simply a delusion, regardless of money spent.

Don't get me wrong, I am not happy with the performances, I want them to improve sooner rather than later but Clement is my favourite head coach in a long time at Derby (personality wise) and I'd really like to see the time given for him to try and sort this out. 

If we don't get promoted this season, just take some consolation in the fact that we'll be playing yet another season where we're one of the best teams in the league instead of (more than likely) getting abused by prem sides. 

We'll get to the prem soon enough.

[Mafiabob]

19 minutes ago, SaintRam said:

We just have to hope Mel sticks to his guns and doesn't get swayed by the loud-mouth minority.

Also, what are you doing on here posting serious input? 

Split personality... 

[RamNut]

I voted 'end of the season' because i believe a club should make that minimum commitment at the start of the season.

we're in a slump. The kind of slump that happens during the course of a season. But we didn't lose to Preston, just as we didn't lose to Reading. We're still limping along, picking up points.

and i'm not bothered about promotion.

i do want to see some better football, some goals, and some happy players.

its been a poor month. Poor transfers. The manager is starting to look devoid of ideas and is making silly comments that will ultimately only further erode his support. But nonetheless......

end of season as things stand.....then assess where we are going.

ancelotti will be hiring new assistants to go with him to bayern munich. I wouldn't bet against PC jumping ship.

[Ninos]

I didn't vote to sack him but several disturbing things that could get him fired :

1. Style of play is not enjoyable to watch (need to work on creating opportunities with good attacking play)

2. Still hasn't found a settled lineup - only the back line Thorne and Ince are assured of a spot

3. Can't choose a Captain; overlooked Shackell (even Thorne) to pick Baird/Martin/warnock none of whom inspire. 

4. Plays too many attacking players out of position - Ince Blackman weimann Johnson 

5. Has alienated too many players - bent Baird Pearce Shotton Hanson left out entirely ; Russell Martin Johnson Butterfield hendrick grant all dropped here and there.

his job as manager is to choose a leader, put players in position, find a settled lineup fast, find a formation that works, and to play attractive football. Mel will judge him on that not promotion. You can't have 30000 fans come and expect them to pay £30 to watch that. 

Plus he needs to kiss and make up with Darren Bent.

 

[StaffsRam]

As **** as they look in the PL, the prospect of Sunderland, Villa and maybe Newcastle coming down - alongside all but one of Burnley, Sheff Wed, Brighton and Ipswich still being here as well - next season's not going to be any easier than this one, and in all likelihood will be considerably harder.

[ariotofmyown]

1 hour ago, Anon said:

I don't really know how to reply to your first paragraph. To suggest that expecting better results for a higher outlay is due to media hype is such a bald faced denial of logic that I don't know how to proceed.

I agree with everything else you say. If we are running a model where the manager doesn't pick the signings then we're headed for disaster, regardless of who is in the hotseat.

Was gonna reply but you might as well just read saintram's post.

[RamNut]

He made some strange comments about the captaincy. 

Basically said it wasn't very important and it didn't really matter who did it?

even named lee grant as a potential captain!!

 

I think roy mac needs to have a word.

[HKRam]

Pressed "view poll results" by mistake and cannot vote.

IMO, PC should go immediately.

After Burnley's defeat, I said PC was responsible because apparently he did not do enough pre-match drill and prep work with Keogh and Shackell in dealing with Gray. Rather, he spent the whole week practicing crosses, Moyes style. And people called me a clown.

Tactically he got it all wrong. He should device a style of play that fits our strength and weakness, which could well be the play-beyond-Martin stuff. Remember, our main striker is very good for this level, but could neither run nor jump.

Man-management wise, obviously we are not as tight-knitted as we were under SM. PC simply could never bring the brotherly, feel-good factor in.

And he comes off as someone who does not know how to manage upward (i.e., our club owner). What we can see on and off the pitch -- tinkering with formations, Plan Bs, changing captains, not dropping Johnson, dropping Bent, etc. -- are probably something Mel mentioned casually in conversations, and PC carried them out faithfully. Just speculations, of course, but PC comes off as someone like that. A good No. 2 material but can never be a No. 1, given his personality attributes. Players are not stupid and they can sense things. Plus Mel visited the dressing room? It was the last straw IMO. PC was undermined in the face.

Lastly, say we stick with PC and got promoted, do you really trust him to be our manager for the Premier League?

[SaintRam]

3 minutes ago, HKRam said:

Pressed "view poll results" by mistake and cannot vote.

IMO, PC should go immediately.

After Burnley's defeat, I said PC was responsible because apparently he did not do enough pre-match drill and prep work with Keogh and Shackell in dealing with Gray. Rather, he spent the whole week practicing crosses, Moyes style. And people called me a clown.

Tactically he got it all wrong. He should device a style of play that fits our strength and weakness, which could well be the play-beyond-Martin stuff. Remember, our main striker is very good for this level, but could neither run nor jump.

Man-management wise, obviously we are not as tight-knitted as we were under SM. PC simply could never bring the brotherly, feel-good factor in.

And he comes off as someone who does not know how to manage upward (i.e., our club owner). What we can see on and off the pitch -- tinkering with formations, Plan Bs, changing captains, not dropping Johnson, dropping Bent, etc. -- are probably something Mel mentioned casually in conversations, and PC carried them out faithfully. Just speculations, of course, but PC comes off as someone like that. A good No. 2 material but can never be a No. 1, given his personality attributes. Players are not stupid and they can sense things. Plus Mel visited the dressing room? It was the last straw IMO. PC was undermined in the face.

Lastly, say we stick with PC and got promoted, do you really trust him to be our manager for the Premier League?

Of course. If we get promoted that means he turns this around, and that would be a great sign. 

[Ted McMinn Football Genius]

Think he's walking a very fine line. 

I did expect him to have been sacked by the time I got into work this morning. 

I think we can take a few more matches for PC to fix what's really not working as of late. That said, if we continue down the same path eg formation, tactics, substitution pattern and the lack of goals from open play he would have to vacate the position IMO. 

Whats happened with Weiman and Bent does anyone know??

[eddie]

Good dog.

28 minutes ago, MuespachRam said:

You are seriously saying that if we fail to make the top 6 of this rubbish league after blowing 30 odd million on the squad that you would be ok with it..!??? Are you on drugs.? My dog could get us into the play offs with that much money and the squad he had

Good dog.

[froggg]

4 hours ago, Bwash_Ram said:

I wanted him gone in August, so its no surprise how i voted. I could see then what he was doing i and i knew it wouldnt work.

You should be in football fella with that kind of insight

[Ramos]

2 hours ago, JoetheRam said:

Goes to show it's the disguntled minority that make the most noise.

Personally I voted end of season, but then again I don't see this season as the "do or die" season a lot of people seem to think it is.

I'm pretty sure this is the last season you can get promoted to the Prem, which is why everyone is so do or die. After this season if you end in the top two you pass on into limbo Inception style.  

[Mafiabob]

15 minutes ago, SaintRam said:

Of course. If we get promoted that means he turns this around, and that would be a great sign. 

 

19 minutes ago, HKRam said:

Pressed "view poll results" by mistake and cannot vote.

IMO, PC should go immediately.

After Burnley's defeat, I said PC was responsible because apparently he did not do enough pre-match drill and prep work with Keogh and Shackell in dealing with Gray. Rather, he spent the whole week practicing crosses, Moyes style. And people called me a clown.

Tactically he got it all wrong. He should device a style of play that fits our strength and weakness, which could well be the play-beyond-Martin stuff. Remember, our main striker is very good for this level, but could neither run nor jump.

Man-management wise, obviously we are not as tight-knitted as we were under SM. PC simply could never bring the brotherly, feel-good factor in.

And he comes off as someone who does not know how to manage upward (i.e., our club owner). What we can see on and off the pitch -- tinkering with formations, Plan Bs, changing captains, not dropping Johnson, dropping Bent, etc. -- are probably something Mel mentioned casually in conversations, and PC carried them out faithfully. Just speculations, of course, but PC comes off as someone like that. A good No. 2 material but can never be a No. 1, given his personality attributes. Players are not stupid and they can sense things. Plus Mel visited the dressing room? It was the last straw IMO. PC was undermined in the face.

Lastly, say we stick with PC and got promoted, do you really trust him to be our manager for the Premier League?

That last paragraph pretty much undid all of the rest of the points you were making...