Booing?

[StringerBell]

1 minute ago, StockholmRam said:

My line would probably be not to go anymore. There's been a couple of " crooked" times in the history of me being a supporter that I've thought I might not want to go anymore until this is all over... But I have never felt the need to boo the team, or players ever. I don't think that is ever acceptable.... 

But don't you realise you could argue that's not showing support either? How would you like it if someone got on their high horse with you and accused you of abandoning ship?

I don't like to boo. But if a player isn't pulling their weight, which even Clement has said tonight, then they're fair game for a mild bit of booing. It's amazing how forgiving a lot of fans are to incredibly well paid players of mediocre ability as long as they give 100%. And these aren't mediocre players.

And I know some don't like the lack of effort argument. Yes, obviously the players desperately want to get promoted. But it's also possible for performance levels to dip - they've been gunning for promotion for two and a half years now. That's a long period of time to maintain maximum focus. 

As I say, even Clement has said there was a lack of commitment and if that's the case there's not much sympathy for any delicate flowers in our team who may or may not have been upset at getting booed. 

Let's just hope they react in a good way and get back to playing as we know they can.

[Rev]

2 minutes ago, HantsRam said:

Was the ref particularly poor?

There's been no hint of any controversy in any data feeds I've been following. The stats just suggest we were not great. Few shots. Almost none on target. Even in terms of possession. A lot of fouls by the look.

I didn't think he got many decisions wrong, but the 'look at me, I'm the star' attitude took me back to the days of Uriah Rennie. 

Their was particular incident towards the end, he awarded a debatable free kick to Reading on the edge of the box, arranged the wall, then ran backwards 70 yds to check on Keogh, who was down injured in the opposition box.

Never once did he take his eyes off the penalty box, but still decided on his return to remark the ball and wall with magic spray, pushing the wall back another 2 yds from where he'd already put it?

If he really is reffing us again Saturday, I think I'll go shopping instead!

[Alph]

Didn't boo but I had to bite my tongue.

Anyone can play poorly. But players being casual, being slow and placid, players not making the game as easy as possible makes me furious.

Anyone can have an off day ON the ball. 

But you can still play on your toes, you can still pick up your man, you can still be physical and try to be supportive. 

If you want to stand about and wait for **** to happen but wave your foot at the ball once in a while then step aside. 

A 10 yard pass deserves full attention. A bloke running past you and onto your teammate leaving him overloaded while you make sure your gloves are tight and you look good is not acceptable.

Aggression and confidence are essential. 

Too many spectators. So angry at that match. Stood in the freezing cold watching our lads play a friendly. 

Same as Wednesday away. Not like Leeds or Forest where the mentality was right but the execution and decision making was poor. Just like Hillsborough it was casual

[Bridgford Ram]

I didn't hear booing today (North Stand Upper) but it was an abysmal performance.

Everything was flat from the off, performance and atmosphere.

[Carl Sagan]

24 minutes ago, reveldevil said:

I felt the boos were aimed at the ref, not the players, fwiw!

 

14 minutes ago, Jezza said:

I thought it was aimed at the ref , and it looks like we've got him again for the brum game 

 

 

Booooo     

 

11 minutes ago, HantsRam said:

Was the ref particularly poor?

There's been no hint of any controversy in any data feeds I've been following. The stats just suggest we were not great. Few shots. Almost none on target. Even in terms of possession. A lot of fouls by the look.

I meant to say it wouldn't have surprised me, just listening to the radio commentary, if the boos were actually aimed at the ref. It sounded as though he gave us nothing whatsoever. About the one freekick we were awarded, there was much louder and more sustained than normal ironic applause.

When the team isn't performing, the ref becomes an easy target too, because sensible supporters don't want to vent their frustration on the players.

3 minutes ago, philmycock said:

When? The support was awful tonight, no atmosphere, what's the point in having a drum if it's not drummed, boo to the fans! Boooo!!!!

Some people say it's tinpot but I love having a drum and despair when the lad doesn't bang it. Bang the effing drum!!! Boo indeed. Boo to everything and everyone tonight. Booooooo!!!!!

[StockholmRam]

4 minutes ago, StringerBell said:

But don't you realise you could argue that's not showing support either? How would you like it if someone got on their high horse with you and accused you of abandoning ship?

I don't like to boo. But if a player isn't pulling their weight, which even Clement has said tonight, then they're fair game for a mild bit of booing. It's amazing how forgiving a lot of fans are to incredibly well paid players of mediocre ability as long as they give 100%. And these aren't mediocre players.

And I know some don't like the lack of effort argument. Yes, obviously the players desperately want to get promoted. But it's also possible for performance levels to dip - they've been gunning for promotion for two and a half years now. That's a long period of time to maintain maximum focus. 

As I say, even Clement has said there was a lack of commitment and if that's the case there's not much sympathy for any delicate flowers in our team who may or may not have been upset at getting booed. 

Let's just hope they react in a good way and get back to playing as we know they can.

I'm sure some of my friends back then did cast glances and show signs of disapproval at my signs of " abandoning" ship. I quite calmly explained my feelings to them about putting money and time ( I was serving armed forces in the first " crooked time") into supporting us. I can't remember the exact in and outs but the argument that came back won the day and I carried on. No booing was involved... I've said my piece about booing now. Nowt will change my mind. I don't like it..see that it serves no positive purpose. 

[StringerBell]

3 minutes ago, Carl Sagan said:

 

 

I meant to say it wouldn't have surprised me, just listening to the radio commentary, if the boos were actually aimed at the ref. It sounded as though he gave us nothing whatsoever. About the one freekick we were awarded, there was much louder and more sustained than normal ironic applause.

When the team isn't performing, the ref becomes an easy target too, because sensible supporters don't want to vent their frustration on the players.

Some people say it's tinpot but I love having a drum and despair when the lad doesn't bang it. Bang the effing drum!!! Boo indeed. Boo to everything and everyone tonight. Booooooo!!!!!

Sounds like we might have got lucky with a penalty decision though.

[StringerBell]

2 minutes ago, StockholmRam said:

I don't like it..see that it serves no positive purpose. 

It might do, it might not. No one knows.

While Clements shouting at them in the dressing room he might actually mention the crowds reaction while he's motivating them. Some players might respond positively to that, some might not. We honestly don't know. 

I'm sure you must have had, or seen others have a good tongue lashing and a dressing down while you were in the forces? My brother served and his military experience has put him firmly in the stick camp as opposed to the carrot camp in terms of getting people to do what you want. 

[Derby_Dave]

1 hour ago, Highgate said:

If the players don't give 100% effort then the fans should boo all they like.  It's a bit different if the players just aren't good enough or are struggling with form/confidence.  But as PC said, among the many shortcomings in tonight's performance was a general lack of commitment and if that's the case then the players richly deserved the boos at the end of the game.

On the other hand did the 28,175 fans give 100%?  We weren't exactly Besiktas in the atmosphere department when it mattered. 

If they pay me a footballers wage to attend every week I will sing and shout until my vocal chords tear. 

I did not boo but I fully understand why some did! 

[Chris Mills]

Anyone sit near me in the east stand upper with the guy on his own shouting and booing at half time? Haha. 

[TheHomunculusLives]

The fans have a right to be unhappy. This is the time of the season we need to be going up a gear but instead we look lost. Unless we improve quickly, at least one of the other teams in the top 6 is going to overtake us - barring an unexpected collapse, I can't see Boro being overhauled at the top now we have faltered. But we have to get that second spot.

I don't buy the excuses that Clement is a new coach and any finish in the top 6 is good enough this season. We have spent a small fortune and anything other than automatic promotion has to be regarded as underperformance. Look at what Chris Hughton is doing at Brighton with a fraction of our investment.

[Bridgford Ram]

12 minutes ago, StringerBell said:

Sounds like we might have got lucky with a penalty decision though.

It was a stonewall pen.

[TheDeadlySaul]

Just now, TheHomunculusLives said:

Look at what Chris Hughton is doing at Brighton with a fraction of our investment.

Not winning a game in 7 and slipping from 1st to 6th? 

[StockholmRam]

One of my points at the very top of the thread was " fans who know Nowt". 

Some of us have been saying and imploring for reasonable expectations from the start of the season. I think it falls on stony ground to a few. But worth reiterating again. 

For a team with a new head coach who is in his first job with full responsibility, a group of new players who have talent but are being asked to learn and play new roles, a team learning new systems to play, trying to find a plan b and c this position we find ourselves in 2nd spot at this stage is quite incredible. We can all surely see it's a bit hit and miss as to how well we play game to game. Doesn't that in itself spell it out to you?!! 

It takes time. Sometimes shorter than others...but patience is needed. None of these players surely went out to be deliberately rubbish tonight. They didn't stand in the tunnel before kick off going " I know..let's be really sh$T tonight"... What Mel Morris, Sam Rush, Paul Clement are trying to do at our club is move us forward, give us success that we crave. 

In my long experience of watching Derby teams I'd have said start of season be really happy with top 6 and amazed with automatic promotion. 

We ARE going to have bad games. Players will have periods of bad form or a night where it looks like boots are on the other foot. We didn't sign Messi or Ronaldo... 

I think given the circumstances we've done remarkably well. I understand the passion and will to go up this season and it would be lovely... But it's also quite possible that we won't. Are we to get behind the plan or just sulk and boo every time we have a mishap?!! 

[TuffLuff]

Not sure with the penalty decision, certainly looked like it could go 50/50. I think what maybe went against the Reading player was that he was might have been looking for the peno rather than to take on the shot, which made the ref think he was going down too easy?? 

No getting away that the ref was poor though, played into their hands quite nicely overall. Espeicially last ten minutes when it all got a bit ridiculous. Biased annoyances aside though, when he didnt stop the game for Keogh when he had a head injury was shocking ineptitude. He had no idea what Keogh could have been down for at that moment, I hope the club mention it in the ref report anyway.

Anyway, sorry back on topic. Now home and can think a little bit more about it. Booing the players was stupid, but it was more pockets of fans rather than a collectice overall. Lets not blow it out of proportion, we are getting far too good as fans to make everything into a crisis of some sort.  

[StockholmRam]

12 minutes ago, StringerBell said:

It might do, it might not. No one knows.

While Clements shouting at them in the dressing room he might actually mention the crowds reaction while he's motivating them. Some players might respond positively to that, some might not. We honestly don't know. 

I'm sure you must have had, or seen others have a good tongue lashing and a dressing down while you were in the forces? My brother served and his military experience has put him firmly in the stick camp as opposed to the carrot camp in terms of getting people to do what you want. 

Stick and carrot can both be ok in my book. Knowing how and when to use them singles out the great leaders from the average... I've had some superb nco's and officers who knew how to do it right. 

I can honestly say that the " stick" version of booing has never been popular. It was used but I never saw benefit. 

[Zag zig]

12 minutes ago, TheHomunculusLives said:

The fans have a right to be unhappy. This is the time of the season we need to be going up a gear but instead we look lost. Unless we improve quickly, at least one of the other teams in the top 6 is going to overtake us - barring an unexpected collapse, I can't see Boro being overhauled at the top now we have faltered. But we have to get that second spot.

I don't buy the excuses that Clement is a new coach and any finish in the top 6 is good enough this season. We have spent a small fortune and anything other than automatic promotion has to be regarded as underperformance. Look at what Chris Hughton is doing at Brighton with a fraction of our investment.

Started well, then have to say buying doesn't guarantee immediate success but ok that's your opinion, however you lost it with the last point. Lost 2-0 at Rotherham and I'd say in free-fall at present.

[TheHomunculusLives]

Just now, Zag zig said:

Started well, then have to say buying doesn't guarantee immediate success but ok that's your opinion, however you lost it with the last point. Lost 2-0 at Rotherham and I'd say in free-fall at present.

Still only five points behind us despite being on a terrible run. But my real point here is that the gap between us and Brighton should be far wider taking into account our respective investments and last season's performance. 

[StringerBell]

8 minutes ago, StockholmRam said:

Stick and carrot can both be ok in my book. Knowing how and when to use them singles out the great leaders from the average... I've had some superb nco's and officers who knew how to do it right. 

I can honestly say that the " stick" version of booing has never been popular. It was used but I never saw benefit. 

Yes you're right both work, like Skinner's rats showed if you know your psychology. 

This is what I meant about some players needing an arm around the shoulder, while some need a kick up the backside. We can't possibly know what effect the booing at the end of the game will have on the players. It might be a mixed bag with individuals. But for the team as a whole? We can't say it will negatively effect them with certainty. If I was Clement I would certainly try to use the reaction at full time to my advantage.

 

[Zag zig]

1 minute ago, TheHomunculusLives said:

Still only five points behind us despite being on a terrible run. But my real point here is that the gap between us and Brighton should be far wider taking into account our respective investments and last season's performance. 

Well it could have been 7 points if we had won, all ifs and buts. End of the day I'm more concerned about us and this one was a category A off-day poor performance.

Do agree with Clement, if you don't get the basics right we won't win, so yes in theory we have bought better players, but no matter how much they cost, it doesn't guarantee 3 points every game; only have to look at Chelsea and Man Utd in the prem.