Derby County v Brighton

[Harrowram]

2 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

It didn't look deliberate to me.

It hit both hands. Penalty-no doubt.Why have both hands out?

[AndyinLiverpool]

1 minute ago, Harrowram said:

It hit both hands. Penalty-no doubt.Why have both hands out?

I think we must be talking about different incidents

[DerbyRam!]

thought we dominated today, very suprised by the such negative reactions from people on radio derby. And yet no one mentioned the rather unsportsman like tactics employed by brighton, going down when we were absolutely smashing them for the first 15minutes. Multiple times. they couldnt handle us

to be fair to brighton i think they took their chances extremely well, though we didnt really see any danger apart from the goals, we controlled the game. cant give a proper judgement on brighton because they didnt have the ball enough!

on another day, shackell's header goes in, we're 1-0 up. Funny how their lb went down for a good 3minutes right when we put them under a hell of a lot of pressure at the start, just after he commited the keeper to a backpass with a player closing him down!!!

[Harrowram]

7 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

I think we must be talking about different incidents

The ball clearly hit Dunk on both hands. It was clearly a penalty. The referee was already a proven clown by only playing 4 minutes overtime in the first half for three attempts at play acting. if you are injured leave the pitch. Simple as!

[StringerBell]

6 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

I think we must be talking about different incidents

That's what I'm thinking. The 'handball' incident I think we're on about was never a handball. It was blasted at Dunk from close range, he wasn't looking and his arms were tucked in with his forearms slightly out because of balance and gravity and that. Not intentional therefore not handball.

So genuine question for anybody who saw it, what is this blatant handball incident and when did it occur and who was involved?

[RadioactiveWaste]

the 2 finishes from Brighton were very good.

Seemed on channel five that we played ok apart from losing it for their first.

 

[Carl Sagan]

25 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

Do you think it was deliberate handball?

I'd say you're wrong on this, Andy (though obviously the ref agreed). In the modern, professional game those are normally given because there was sufficient distance between Weimann and the defender and the defender has spread himself, effectively playing as an extra goalkeeper and making the save to prevent the ball going across the box. Is it deliberate? He's absolutely making himself as big as target as he possibly can. This is the reason that top class defenders defend crosses with their hands behind their backs nowadays.

 

[cunningplan]

5 minutes ago, DerbyRam! said:

thought we dominated today, very suprised by the such negative reactions from people on radio derby. And yet no one mentioned the rather unsportsman like tactics employed by brighton, going down when we were absolutely smashing them for the first 15minutes. Multiple times. they couldnt handle us

to be fair to brighton i think they took their chances extremely well, though we didnt really see any danger apart from the goals, we controlled the game. cant give a proper judgement on brighton because they didnt have the ball enough!

on another day, shackell's header goes in, we're 1-0 up. Funny how their lb went down for a good 3minutes right when we put them under a hell of a lot of pressure at the start, just after he commited the keeper to a backpass with a player closing him down!!!

So in your view Derby County playing away (and winning) against a talented and rampant opposition would not resort to some professional time wasting tactics that would see the game out? That's delusional!

[sage]

Grant  6  Couldn't do anything about either goal. Didn't have a save to make.

Christie  5 Dreadful. Poor decision making all game.

Warnock  7  Usual steady game but lack of pace exposed for second goal

Keogh  9  Excellent game. Drove us forward during lacklustre patches.

Shackell  7  Sound defensively but has the passing range of a brick wall

Thorne  7 patchy performance, some great work but got rushed on the ball at times and some poor passes to Martin

Johnson  6 Another with mixed bag performance, good goal but lost possession too many times

Butterfield  6  Tidy but no real impact on the game

Ince  7  Best game for a while, but looks a yard slower than last year

Weimann  5 Aimlessly ran around and missed a great chance

Martin 7 Not his best game but scored and set up 3 or 4 chances for others. Some of the passes up to him were abysmal

 

Hendrick 5 Awful start, improved to average

Russell  6 Was busy but still lacking quality

  

[Brammie Steve]

1 hour ago, -JW- said:

Great point against the best team in the league.

Onwards.

Addressed to Brighton fans is this JW?

[Harrowram]

6 minutes ago, cunningplan said:

So in your view Derby County playing away (and winning) against a talented and rampant opposition would not resort to some professional time wasting tactics that would see the game out? That's delusional!

Brighton weren't rampant.They had two good chances and scored from both. Dunk clearly handled the ball and was lucky to get away with it. You have won every game by one goal only and obviously play percentage football. You have a geriatric defence and Zamora and unless you make further signings you won't last 46 league games plus FA Cup games. Wilson and March are clearly injured and Zamora, Greer and the Spaniards aren't capable of playing a full season.

[cunningplan]

1 minute ago, Harrowram said:

Brighton weren't rampant.They had two good chances and scored from both. Dunk clearly handled the ball and was lucky to get away with it. You have won every game by one goal only and obviously play percentage football. You have a geriatric defence and Zamora and unless you make further signings you won't last 46 league games plus FA Cup games. Wilson and March are clearly injured and Zamora, Greer and the Spaniards aren't capable of playing a full season.

I don't think you understood my post. Have another look and then decide which team I was describing as talented and rampant. The rest of what you wrote is not worth commenting on.

[StringerBell]

18 minutes ago, Carl Sagan said:

I'd say you're wrong on this, Andy (though obviously the ref agreed). In the modern, professional game those are normally given because there was sufficient distance between Weimann and the defender and the defender has spread himself, effectively playing as an extra goalkeeper and making the save to prevent the ball going across the box. Is it deliberate? He's absolutely making himself as big as target as he possibly can. This is the reason that top class defenders defend crosses with their hands behind their backs nowadays.

 

I actually completely disagree with that. Putting your arms out doesn't actually make you a bigger target. It just moves your arms to a different position. But the player still present the same area of flesh that can block the ball. It's a bit like the Archimedes principle. If a player moves their arms to make themselves a star shape then the space by their sides have been vacated. The only way to make yourself a bigger target is to all of a sudden gain weight, chop your arms off or do something ridiculous like put their hands behind their back (a ******* travesty of the modern game). How would you propose that Dunk, whilst in position in which he has spread his legs to block the ball, could do this with his arms behind his back? He'd likely injure himself. So should he not dive in? Should he not compete in the competitive sport he has chosen as a profession?

The onus is on the player who strikes the ball to hit it past the defender. Handball has to be deliberate. That's the rule. I can stand there with my arms out if I want. You have to hit it past me. 

Nevertheless, Dunk didn't do any of the things you said he did. His arms were tucked in.

[cloughandtaylor]

4 hours ago, RicME85 said:

See, my view is that Clement makes his changes too late and by the time players are coming on the game is passing them by

You cannot intermate on here that Clement get things wrong , wherever next.....,.....

[Harrowram]

You weren't rampant and you aren't particularly talented. Hughton is known as a percentage manager hence his ejection from Norwich. You conned an crap referee in the first half.You have several players who are proven not to be able to play a full season ( Greer, Zamora, Bruno and the other geriatric Spaniard). March is clearly injured as he was taken off. Wilson is carrying an injury as his running was impaired.  you had a very poor season last season and have a limited squad so why are my comments deluded? You won't last 46 games with the current squad. Hughton is a failed percentage manager who has got lucky- and you have no money.

[Harrowram]

34 minutes ago, StringerBell said:

That's what I'm thinking. The 'handball' incident I think we're on about was never a handball. It was blasted at Dunk from close range, he wasn't looking and his arms were tucked in with his forearms slightly out because of balance and gravity and that. Not intentional therefore not handball.

So genuine question for anybody who saw it, what is this blatant handball incident and when did it occur and who was involved?

It hit both hands Hand ball!

[RadioactiveWaste]

the one was got was a foul the one we didn't get was debatable. However, the one we got was one you'd see given less than the one we didn't get.

 

[Harrowram]

1 minute ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

the one was got was a foul the one we didn't get was debatable. However, the one we got was one you'd see given less than the one we didn't get.

The one we got was a clear foul. Channel 5 admitted as much.

 

 

[RadioactiveWaste]

but how many times would it not have been given, you catch my drift?

[ValeRam]

Good game today , really interesting seeing "how Brighton do it" and overall happy with a point having been behind twice.

Brighton reminded me of the Hull team who got promoted and won at our place a few years ago. They all seemed very comfortable on the ball, had a clear game plan and way of playing, passed the ball around with ease, broke in numbers really quickly and looked pretty clinical - they don't need many chances. But not many truly standout players ; a genuine team. And in Wilson they seem to have acquired the icing on the case, looks a super player.

I didn't think we played very well in the final third but, having said that and looking at the stats, we had loads of shots. On another day we could have won that, although that would have been tough on Brighton.

Just a few observations that some may feel harsh, but just telling it as I saw it :

- much, much improved performance by Ince today. Plenty of shots and, I may be wrong, but I think he actually won one or two headers today ?

- I wonder why he is played way out on the wing ?  He is very left footed and so is reluctant to take on the defender and get to the byline to put in a cross on his wrong foot. If I was a defender against him I would absolutely love that. 

- there also seems to be something wrong with his relationship with Christie - the latter appears very reluctant to pass to the former

- thought PCs substitutions were good today. Only one I would query was the Bent one. Not sure what we can expect from putting the guy on for the last ten minutes every game, other than to shake up the opposition and give them something else to think about. He needs much longer than that. Having said that, there seem to be very few players in our team who can actually take advantage of him. His game is about playing on the shoulder and making runs into space at pace. Trouble is, this is hardly ever noticed by those in possession at that time.

- Both Martin and Bradley can be frustrating at times . But take them out of the team and we would be far weaker. They are winners and help drive the rest of the team on

- I'm beginning to worry about both Butterfield and Weimann. You wonder if either they, or we,  can do better in both cases.

- I was sat right in-line with the Brighton guy when he received the pass to score their second goal. Although he was unmarked , I was absolutely confident that, with that angle, and the defence flinging themselves in their way, he would not score. Carson would have done a lot better, in my humble opinion.

- Although I have played football all my life ( a good 50 years)  I cannot claim to have even a basic understanding of modern football tactics and concepts. I do wonder, however, at the idea of seemingly being dependant,  for  the vast majority of your attacking options, on two players whose main priority, surely, is to defend. I'm talking about Christie and  Warnock, both of whom make a cracking go of it. But surely thats not their main job and others should be taking on the mantle ? 

- Hendrick clearly seems to polarise opinion . I didn't notice the lackadaisical response to losing the ball which resulted in the second goal that some have complained about. It appeared to me, though,  to sum up the problem we currently have with Bradley and george both occupying the same space. All I would say is that , if Hendrick hadn't been on the pitch, we wouldn't have equalised. I personally find it refreshing that we have a player who's sole aim is to push forward  and look for an opening, for him and his teammates.

- I sit in the East stand and I can tell you that I didn't hear any booing when their lad was stretchered off, only clapping. When he initially went down there was plenty however, and that was entirely down to the appalling play-acting that had gone on before when it became clear that Brighton had come with a game-plan to disrupt us by however means they could employ. As others have said, its the cry-wolf scenario, and I have no sympathy  for them whatsoever.

- If Brighton hadn't gone 2:1 up , I find it difficult to believe that we would have found it within ourselves to have got a second and a winner , there just didn't seem to be that conviction and ability  in our team today. We looked ordinary going forward and bereft of ideas in the second half.

Overall, though, delighted with where we currently sit. If someone had predicted this back in June, I would never have believed them !