The goals will come

[ronnieronalde]

I'll try and think back to the beginning of last season:-

Rotherham at home, really struggled to break them down and got a late winner I think.

Carlisle away, poor performance scraped a 1-0 victory if I remember correctly (I doubt you would have been calling it a professional workmanlike performance back then!)

Sheffield Wednesday away, 0-0 draw, played poorly but perhaps should have snatched a winner when Russell missed a one-on-one.

Charlton away lost 3-2 as our defensive frailties became apparent.

The performances so far have been far from great but we are maybe 2 or 3 points behind what people may have expected (I certainly expected nothing against a Boro team favourites for promotion).

We have a new head coach who has stressed that it will take time for his plans to come together, when he said this I am assuming he meant more than 3 games!

Anyone who expected us to hit the ground running after last seasons collapse, added to player turnover, is mad.

I'm far from happy yet but Clement has got to have time to adapt to this division.

 

Carlisle was 2-0 GStar and I think any 2-0 is professional and workmanlike at worst.

I'm fine with giving him time, I'm just not as convinced as you lot that with time he'll get better.

I don't know at all where the confidence is coming from, it can't be based on his interviews, it can't be based on his selections and it can't be based on results/performances so far. It can only be based on hope that he's learned how to manage from Ancelotti.

I'm of the opinion that It's basically the fact he's a new guy and no-one wants to be the first one to throw a hysterical hissy fit.

Fortunately you've got me, who's never minded going against popular opinion :-)

[G STAR RAM]

Carlisle was 2-0 GStar and I think any 2-0 is professional and workmanlike at worst.

I'm fine with giving him time, I'm just not as convinced as you lot that with time he'll get better.

I don't know at all where the confidence is coming from, it can't be based on his interviews, it can't be based on his selections and it can't be based on results/performances so far. It can only be based on hope that he's learned how to manage from Ancelotti.

I'm of the opinion that It's basically the fact he's a new guy and no-one wants to be the first one to throw a hysterical hissy fit.

Fortunately you've got me, who's never minded going against popular opinion :-)

Sorry I stand corrected on the Carlisle score but I seem to remember it being pretty poor and as I say, if we look back through posts I doubt many were calling it professional and workmanlike (I could be and often am wrong!)

I am far from convinced too and if you look at my posts pre-season you will see that I was one saying that things felt wrong to me and I could see this season going tits up.

That all said, Clement needs time to try systems and correct them if they are not working. It has been hard for him to do that so far when losing 4 midfielders has forced his hand with the substitutes he had to make.

At the very least, over the next few matches I would expect him to be looking at improving the tempo and trying to solve the problem of our wide men constantly coming inside. If he does not address these soon then I will get slightly more worried!

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

We must score first. Then, and only then, will we see what this team is really made of.

 

Mind you when we do score first & then go on to really batter someone it will be case of (insert team) were rubbish, worst team we've played for ages etc. etc.

[Alph]

Same moans as last season. "We struggle to break teams down". Maybe it's because we're good so they get organised? 

People wanted a more solid team. That's what you've got. 

Now you want a solid team that attacks like a McClaren side of two seasons ago. 

Moan, moan, moan

We've been getting chances in the last 2 games. I listed the Charlton ones. Can't be arsed to do the same for Boro because people just like moaning anyway. 

But would you be happy if we played like last night v Chelsea? Yes you would. What about Everton? West Brom? Yes you would. Why? Because those are better than us. Boro are as good as us. Why should we be creating wide open chances against them? 

I don't know who people think they support half the time. Spend all summer talking about how we've now got a manager with a plan A-Z after useless Mac has gone. Start vvanking over our team. Season starts and when it turns out we aren't a Champions League team accidently in the Championship then the moaning starts. 

Don't start comparing us to last season because most of you moaned all last season too.

We've had 2 poor games and 2 good ones. We've conceded 2 tad unfortunate goals in the last 2 games and had to fave teams with 11 behind the ball. We've created chances. 

But if we'd won it wouldn't be winnier enough. It wasn't last season. 

Moaning moaning Derby

[WorksopRam]

Same moans as last season. "We struggle to break teams down". Maybe it's because we're good so they get organised? 

People wanted a more solid team. That's what you've got. 

Now you want a solid team that attacks like a McClaren side of two seasons ago. 

Moan, moan, moan

We've been getting chances in the last 2 games. I listed the Charlton ones. Can't be arsed to do the same for Boro because people just like moaning anyway. 

But would you be happy if we played like last night v Chelsea? Yes you would. What about Everton? West Brom? Yes you would. Why? Because those are better than us. Boro are as good as us. Why should we be creating wide open chances against them? 

I don't know who people think they support half the time. Spend all summer talking about how we've now got a manager with a plan A-Z after useless Mac has gone. Start vvanking over our team. Season starts and when it turns out we aren't a Champions League team accidently in the Championship then the moaning starts. 

Don't start comparing us to last season because most of you moaned all last season too.

We've had 2 poor games and 2 good ones. We've conceded 2 tad unfortunate goals in the last 2 games and had to fave teams with 11 behind the ball. We've created chances. 

But if we'd won it wouldn't be winnier enough. It wasn't last season. 

Moaning moaning Derby

Another post on the money. 

You must be reading my mind. 

[Animal is a Ram]

Same moans as last season. "We struggle to break teams down". Maybe it's because we're good so they get organised? 

People wanted a more solid team. That's what you've got. 

Now you want a solid team that attacks like a McClaren side of two seasons ago. 

Moan, moan, moan

We've been getting chances in the last 2 games. I listed the Charlton ones. Can't be arsed to do the same for Boro because people just like moaning anyway. 

But would you be happy if we played like last night v Chelsea? Yes you would. What about Everton? West Brom? Yes you would. Why? Because those are better than us. Boro are as good as us. Why should we be creating wide open chances against them? 

I don't know who people think they support half the time. Spend all summer talking about how we've now got a manager with a plan A-Z after useless Mac has gone. Start vvanking over our team. Season starts and when it turns out we aren't a Champions League team accidently in the Championship then the moaning starts. 

Don't start comparing us to last season because most of you moaned all last season too.

We've had 2 poor games and 2 good ones. We've conceded 2 tad unfortunate goals in the last 2 games and had to fave teams with 11 behind the ball. We've created chances. 

But if we'd won it wouldn't be winnier enough. It wasn't last season. 

Moaning moaning Derby

If I could like this 10 times I would. Certainly one of my favourite posters.

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

Same moans as last season. "We struggle to break teams down". Maybe it's because we're good so they get organised? 

People wanted a more solid team. That's what you've got. 

Now you want a solid team that attacks like a McClaren side of two seasons ago. 

Moan, moan, moan

We've been getting chances in the last 2 games. I listed the Charlton ones. Can't be arsed to do the same for Boro because people just like moaning anyway. 

But would you be happy if we played like last night v Chelsea? Yes you would. What about Everton? West Brom? Yes you would. Why? Because those are better than us. Boro are as good as us. Why should we be creating wide open chances against them? 

I don't know who people think they support half the time. Spend all summer talking about how we've now got a manager with a plan A-Z after useless Mac has gone. Start vvanking over our team. Season starts and when it turns out we aren't a Champions League team accidently in the Championship then the moaning starts. 

Don't start comparing us to last season because most of you moaned all last season too.

We've had 2 poor games and 2 good ones. We've conceded 2 tad unfortunate goals in the last 2 games and had to fave teams with 11 behind the ball. We've created chances. 

But if we'd won it wouldn't be winnier enough. It wasn't last season. 

Moaning moaning Derby

100% agree with that and will add that we have competed with our first choice midfield ripped out twice.

[Matt Carbon]

1 point less. 3 clean sheets less and 3 goals scored less as well as conceding one more.

Scoring just 2 goals in 4 games, compared to 5 in 4 last year.

Played 1 home game last season compared to 2 this and I'll make a little bet with you now, there's no way Birmingham are going to concede 5 on Friday either.

Last season through to the second round of the League Cup with a professional workmanlike performance against Carlisle. This season out.

I'd like people to be honest here, looking at the signings,the spending, the start fixture wise and the cup draw, would anyone really have accepted Derby would be sitting four points off the top two after 3 games and out of the Cup?

I envy you're resolve. 

Success isn't instant - however, I'm allowed to make an instant opinion based on limited games and an unfortunate series of injuries.... 

I don't think the players look content /  motivated. I don't think we look like a team capable of scoring goals (which is where the thread started).

Boro looked at us last night and said "okay have the ball, you don't do anything with your possession". And they were right. 

Our back 4 have more touches than any of our other players, and they have an average age of 31! The formation needs 'wing backs' not defensive fullbacks. 

Boring football - goals are not coming. 

I consider myself to be discussing not moaning btw, and I genuinely hope Clement does well (the bloody hands in pockets, school teacher idiot!) ;-) 

[G STAR RAM]

Same moans as last season. "We struggle to break teams down". Maybe it's because we're good so they get organised? 

People wanted a more solid team. That's what you've got. 

Now you want a solid team that attacks like a McClaren side of two seasons ago. 

Moan, moan, moan

We've been getting chances in the last 2 games. I listed the Charlton ones. Can't be arsed to do the same for Boro because people just like moaning anyway. 

But would you be happy if we played like last night v Chelsea? Yes you would. What about Everton? West Brom? Yes you would. Why? Because those are better than us. Boro are as good as us. Why should we be creating wide open chances against them? 

I don't know who people think they support half the time. Spend all summer talking about how we've now got a manager with a plan A-Z after useless Mac has gone. Start vvanking over our team. Season starts and when it turns out we aren't a Champions League team accidently in the Championship then the moaning starts. 

Don't start comparing us to last season because most of you moaned all last season too.

We've had 2 poor games and 2 good ones. We've conceded 2 tad unfortunate goals in the last 2 games and had to fave teams with 11 behind the ball. We've created chances. 

But if we'd won it wouldn't be winnier enough. It wasn't last season. 

Moaning moaning Derby

Agree with a lot of your posts on such matters Alpha (where did the signia go?) but not this one I'm afraid.

I cannot help but feel that there is something wrong that needs addressing.

The last few seasons, regardless of results, have brought excitement in pretty much every match. Watching the defenders and CDM playing 250 passes around 2 opposition strikers is not exciting to me.

You say we are creating chances but we really didn't last night and never really looked like doing so. It was ironic that after all of the tippy tappy we did for 90 minutes that the goal came from a hopeful punt into the box. When we are struggling to break teams down then that will what we need to do sometimes to mix it up a bit. You will never hear me slate us for trying to play the right way but sometimes when its not working, try something different!

 

[Matt Carbon]

Agree with a lot of your posts on such matters Alpha (where did the signia go?) but not this one I'm afraid.

I cannot help but feel that there is something wrong that needs addressing.

The last few seasons, regardless of results, have brought excitement in pretty much every match. Watching the defenders and CDM playing 250 passes around 2 opposition strikers is not exciting to me.

You say we are creating chances but we really didn't last night and never really looked like doing so. It was ironic that after all of the tippy tappy we did for 90 minutes that the goal came from a hopeful punt into the box. When we are struggling to break teams down then that will what we need to do sometimes to mix it up a bit. You will never hear me slate us for trying to play the right way but sometimes when its not working, try something different!

 

this...

[Pearl Ram]

Well I'm all for giving Clement til say the end of October before I commit to a judgement on him but today while stuck in traffic I had the briefest doubt, I was wondering if he was going to turn out like Brian Kidd, respected number two, tried his luck at being number one at Blackburn and was disappointing, ending up being sacked if I remember correctly.

I also wondered if he worries too much about the opposition as opposed to letting them worry about us and in doing so has tightened the reigns too much resulting in us losing our desire to get into 'em, as it were. Ince in particular isn't the same player he was 5/6 months ago.

Anyway I quickly punched myself in face as punishment and decided to give the guy a break for the time being but sleeves have got to be rolled up by a couple that aren't doing it yet to try and help combat the unprecedented amount of injuries to our midfield players which can't have helped our situation which I think is not as good as I'd hoped but it's certainly far from bleak.

COYR. 

[simsdcfc]

all we need to do is give someone a pasting .... ince needs a goal and weimann ... morale will raise jobs a gooden

[Guest]

I think we all have a right to criticise our team or aspects of our play but why should that constitute "moaning"? It seems to me that any sign of not being totally happy is jumped on by some posters as being negative. 

While I'm not particularly happy with our results to date I'm impressed with the improvement that's been shown and hope that it continues

[Alph]

 

Agree with a lot of your posts on such matters Alpha (where did the signia go?) but not this one I'm afraid.

I cannot help but feel that there is something wrong that needs addressing.

The last few seasons, regardless of results, have brought excitement in pretty much every match. Watching the defenders and CDM playing 250 passes around 2 opposition strikers is not exciting to me.

You say we are creating chances but we really didn't last night and never really looked like doing so. It was ironic that after all of the tippy tappy we did for 90 minutes that the goal came from a hopeful punt into the box. When we are struggling to break teams down then that will what we need to do sometimes to mix it up a bit. You will never hear me slate us for trying to play the right way but sometimes when its not working, try something different!

 

The first two games mate I felt all criticism was justified. It was slow, narrow and worst of all we were playing football about 25 yards from Carson then hoofing under pressure. Rubbish

But Saturday we created chances. Martin, Russell and Ince in great positions and none got a decent shot off. Charlton go and score and then you're always going to have a battle on your hands. 10 men sat on their goal line. But Hendrick, Weimann, Russell X2 and Martin had chances in open play to go with Ince free kicks and a number of poor corners. 

Last night was just against a tough team. I agree there was too much repetition and it was just from one flank to the other with the door slammed in our face. Martin might as well have been invisible because nobody used him. But with our lack of chances was a lack of chances for the side joint favourites for promotion. Ok they were 1-0 up and you are fine to argue that they were comfortable. But again it was a situation where we conceded a goal first and were up against 11 behind a ball but this time against a really good opponent. Had Martin scored his free but awkward header or Ince the free kick and maybe Boro coming out would have given us more opportunity. In the opening 15 minutes we looked to really get at them. 

I just think it's early for people to be making up their minds on what this Derby are like. I think Clement is on a learning curve himself. 

I think people got far too carried away in the summer. After all the moaning about our defence last year you give them what they want and then that's not good enough. People seem to want everything and they want it now. Why isn't he doing this or them doing that etc etc. Clement is at Derby because Ancelotti managed Real Madrid. 

People seemed to lead themselves into thinking he's the brains behind Ancelotti. Truth is we haven't got a clue about him. But what we do know is that it's his first job. That he's doing things he's never done before. Let's stick with that rather than thinking we have Carlo Ancelotti in disguise. 

It's just very early to start thinking we have deep routed problems. 

I'm not up Clements bum. I don't believe you can have/should have different systems for different games. It's confusing, it's reactive and nobody successful does it. They may adapt but they don't make big changes in formations and players based on the opposition. They play their best 11 they can in a system that's learned. They may change the focus of one or two individuals jobs. But Clement is talking more than that.

I'm curious as to how we'll approach away games. Both the bad performances have been away. Please don't say we're going to go out and play so negatively every away game! 

But some of the things people are saying are very conclusive. 

[jono]

In both the Boro and Bolton games we lost our midfield and had to rejig significantly. Dial in a new coach and it is blindingly obvious why we have come up a bit short in the goals for column. The only genuinely poor performance was the cup game.

the only worry I have is that Brum  is going to be tricky given the shortage of midfielders and if we don't come back with 3 points then the players might start to be rattled and lose confidence. 

[BondJovi]

One thing I don't understand about this. The last few months of last season our defence was awful, it looks far more solid so far this season, has Clement cocked up there? No.

How many games did we win from March onwards last season? A so-called expert coach in McClaren himself admitted he had no idea how to fix our defence. I would have said the first thing Clement needed to get sorted was the defence, looks like job done. Further up the pitch, Martin will still be finding his match sharpness. Ince is having to get used to being a marked man. Weimann may well take time to adapt to his role/position. It is not as though we haven't created chances last two matches, we aren't playing hoofball. But these players have not got a winning mentality at the moment, when you aren't full of confidence you won't take that shot, you won't look for that killer pass, you'll play it safe because you don't want to risk losing it. Our play is more cautious than it needs to be, but I would expect a win to do wonders for everyone.

And all this bollauex about Clement has ruined Ince....christ almighty. Just bloody string the guy up already.

Give it time. Have some patience and yes the goals will come.

[Don't Panic]

1 point less. 3 clean sheets less and 3 goals scored less as well as conceding one more.

Scoring just 2 goals in 4 games, compared to 5 in 4 last year.

Played 1 home game last season compared to 2 this and I'll make a little bet with you now, there's no way Birmingham are going to concede 5 on Friday either.

Last season through to the second round of the League Cup with a professional workmanlike performance against Carlisle. This season out.

I'd like people to be honest here, looking at the signings,the spending, the start fixture wise and the cup draw, would anyone really have accepted Derby would be sitting four points off the top two after 3 games and out of the Cup?

Yes - with the change in management and a number of new signing I wasn't deluded enough to think we would click instantly. By the way when did they change the season so it ends at the end of August ?  

 

Long way to go so DON'T PANIC just yet....

 

 

[ronnieronalde]

No panic, no moaning and no claiming the season ends in August.

Just a concern that the club might have backed the wrong horse and end up not doing do what they set out to do with the changes they made, which was after all to accelerate the return to the Premier League.

3 points and 2 goals from 3 games is far from an ideal start to a reign that began with such a fanfare. It reminds me a little bit of the Albentosa situation, we were brainwashed before he got here that he was going to be this fantastic player who would push us over the line. In reality he was so far out of his comfort zone it was frightening.

I can't accept for one minute they made the changes, spent the money and massively increased the wage bill expecting or accepting they'd still be in this division 3 seasons later.  Accepting that this manager needed time to learn his trade. In my opinion you the fans and they the owners have been seduced by his big club CV.

I'm under no illusions, I'm convinced they hired Clement expecting him to be an instant improvement on McClaren.

Friday is already a bigger game than it needed to be, for his own self belief he needs a win sooner rather than later.

 

[Don't Panic]

How start of season stats are not good indicators.

Brian Clough only won one of first 6 games of our 1968/69 promotion winning season...

Jim Smith won one in first 6 games of Derby 95/96 promotion season...

Oh and Fergie only won one of his first 6 matches in charge of Utd - went on to be regarded as one of the greats... 

Too early in season to be concerned for me 

[uttoxram75]

How start of season stats are not good indicators.

Brian Clough only won one of first 6 games of our 1968/69 promotion winning season...

Jim Smith won one in first 6 games of Derby 95/96 promotion season...

Oh and Fergie only won one of his first 6 matches in charge of Utd - went on to be regarded as one of the greats... 

Too early in season to be concerned for me 

No forums full of hysterical fans wanting instant success in case their rivals take the pish out of them on twitter in those days