Grimsby Town v Derby County

[Duracell]

personally I do wonder. I know its been accepted as conventional wisdom but I don't recall us being particularly watertight last time he was here when the back 4  also included the great John Brayford and Barks.

But I suppose it was all Gareth Roberts' fault then........

Well to be fair, the defense wasn't bad - we only conceded 58 goals. And don't forget it's not only the back 5 who defend, there was a lot of uninspirational dross playing in front of them. The back four under Clough was often put under a lot of pressure by the opposition, even at home. While we were often unnecessarily negative that season, it's not like the ball sticks to Theo Robinson's foot like glue, is it?

The defense was not the issue in that side. Not so sure about Frank Fielding, but apart from that we had good options at CB, a very good RB in the form of Brayford and a reliable LB in Roberts.

And yet what we have now is better, but it's still not good enough. Apparently.

[May Contain Nuts]

That's just horrible, wouldn't wish that on Forest or Leeds.

Whilst obviously it is very much not nice for the player, and the club will be ruing the financial outlay, I actually can't help but think Alex Baptiste being out injured for months, therefore not playing in Boro's defence, might turn out to be a blessing in disguise for them!

I really am quite glad he chose Bolton over us a few years ago, as every time I've seen him play since I've come to the conclusion that we had a lucky escape - he certainly can't cope with against a team who attack like we do!

 

 

ps IF we're looking at Shackell's time here before, he was partnered with all of O'Brien, Buxton, Barker, Naylor and maybe even Brayford at CB (I can't remember which season Brayford had to cover CB). If a settled back four was an excuse/reason last season, it had nothing on some of the seasons under Clough!

[Alph]

Another idiot with blinkers on!

No need. 

Considering the majority of people here have been (and given up) trying to make you see beyond your Keogh obsession then maybe you should have think about who it is that can't see clearly 

[cloughandtaylor]

No need. 

Considering the majority of people here have been (and given up) trying to make you see beyond your Keogh obsession then maybe you should have think about who it is that can't see clearly 

Why do you think PC wants to try and bring in another experienced CB?

Because we are so good in that position? Because we need no leadership in that position? Because we have no cover in that position?

Or simply there is aweakness at the back that needs addressing ASAP.

If Shackell comes in, we will have Shackell, Keogh, Bucko, Shotton, Albentosa, Pearce all viaing for possibly 2 CB positions .........Some will be going.......

 

[Alph]

Why do you think PC wants to try and bring in another experienced CB?

Because we are so good in that position? Because we need no leadership in that position? Because we have no cover in that position?

Or simply there is aweakness at the back that needs addressing ASAP.

If Shackell comes in, we will have Shackell, Keogh, Bucko, Shotton, Albentosa, Pearce all viaing for possibly 2 CB positions .........Some will be going.......

 

Agree. 

I've never rated Keogh that highly. Just wouldn't call him rubbish either. He's alright. I'm not a Shotton or Albentosa fan.

But thet arent the only reason things went wrong. 

People have been quick to hammer them for this Grimsby game. This is despite the fact that we only managed to score from a set piece and most our shots were from Hendrick at distance. Also that Thorne and Hanson let a midfielder drift past them into a 4v3 situation for the opener. 

None of it bothers me because it was a friendly and there was no intensity. No 100% commitment. Just easing back in and getting warmed up in the things they've been practising amongst themselves. 

Just observing how the defence is getting hammered and yet neither goal was Keogh's fault. Only the second goal ended with a defender at fault and it started with Hughes being caught flat footed and waiting for the ball. And we created zero in the first half. Again, nothing to do with defenders. 

I'm all for signing Shackell. But it's turned into a trend now to lay blame at the same lads. 

Any defensive midfielder that loses his marker and leaves a defender exposed is not doing his job. He shouldn't need to be told. He should be told. Players can't talk too much. But sometimes others have to focus on other things and you need to take responsibility if you can't mark your man. It's your job. Hanson doesn't. 

But this is acceptable. Mistakes are ok. That's how he'll learn. But it wasn't Keogh's mistake. He was outnumbered.  

[Wolfie]

I fear for this season if the amount of criticism on this thread is going to be the new norm, with higher expectations this time around.

If we're not top by September it's going to be unbearable.

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

Agree. 

I've never rated Keogh that highly. Just wouldn't call him rubbish either. He's alright. I'm not a Shotton or Albentosa fan.

But thet arent the only reason things went wrong. 

People have been quick to hammer them for this Grimsby game. This is despite the fact that we only managed to score from a set piece and most our shots were from Hendrick at distance. Also that Thorne and Hanson let a midfielder drift past them into a 4v3 situation for the opener. 

None of it bothers me because it was a friendly and there was no intensity. No 100% commitment. Just easing back in and getting warmed up in the things they've been practising amongst themselves. 

Just observing how the defence is getting hammered and yet neither goal was Keogh's fault. Only the second goal ended with a defender at fault and it started with Hughes being caught flat footed and waiting for the ball. And we created zero in the first half. Again, nothing to do with defenders. 

I'm all for signing Shackell. But it's turned into a trend now to lay blame at the same lads. 

Any defensive midfielder that loses his marker and leaves a defender exposed is not doing his job. He shouldn't need to be told. He should be told. Players can't talk too much. But sometimes others have to focus on other things and you need to take responsibility if you can't mark your man. It's your job. Hanson doesn't. 

But this is acceptable. Mistakes are ok. That's how he'll learn. But it wasn't Keogh's mistake. He was outnumbered.  

Without blowing smoke that is all correct and extremely balanced Alpha. You are getting pretty good at this posting malarkey.  

[Daaave]

Only just had the chance to watch the highlights, were we significantly worse than they made us look? The two goals are a bit sloppy but nowhere near the calamity I was expecting based on some reactions I've seen.

The goals aside I thought some of our play was neat and tidy, a few heavy touches in critical areas but aside from that we looked pretty sharp for the first preseason game. In the highlights at least.

[eddie]

Only just had the chance to watch the highlights, were we significantly worse than they made us look? The two goals are a bit sloppy but nowhere near the calamity I was expecting based on some reactions I've seen.

The goals aside I thought some of our play was neat and tidy, a few heavy touches in critical areas but aside from that we looked pretty sharp for the first preseason game. In the highlights at least.

According to some, any goal conceded, irrespective of circumstances, is a calamity, and invariably Keogh's fault. Also, our lack of opportunities and misses when we do construct goalscoring opportunities are also Keogh's fault.

[RamNut]

According to some, any goal conceded, irrespective of circumstances, is a calamity, and invariably Keogh's fault. Also, our lack of opportunities and misses when we do construct goalscoring opportunities are also Keogh's fault.

my flight is currently delayed indefinately...........bloody keogh's fault.

[Rampage]

I did not see any new tactics in this game (highlights only). I saw similar frailties in the first half to the end of last season.

[Ambitious]

I did not see any new tactics in this game (highlights only). I saw similar frailties in the first half to the end of last season.

First half was a bit of a mess. I guess that's all I can call it: 

If I was going to put a formation to it:

Grant

Christie, Keogh, Shotton, Warnock

Thorne, Hanson

Hughes

Ince                                  Calero

Bent

Lots of problems: 1) the service to Bent was incredibly poor, and he was isolated. 2) Hughes, if he was meant to be playing an attacking role, kept coming to deep and the midfield three were trying to control a small space and left a lot of room around them. The passing was poor. 3) the defence was just unbalanced; Christie seemed to keep in his own half, as did Warnock. Shotton kept drifting over to the right hand side and the gap between Shotton and Warnock was three times the size of the game between Shotton and Keogh. 

Second half: 

Carson

Ssewankambo, Albentosa, Alex Pearce, Craig Forsyth

Baird

Bryson, Hendrick

Weimann                                            Russell

Sammon

Lots of positives: 1) a lot more organised and kept the ball really well - the structure of the midfield works very well. 2) Both full backs got forward and attacked. 3) Albentosa, very much right-sided, and Pearce looked very comfortable and balanced. 4) Sammon was able to get the ball down and play it to the four players surrounding him more often than not. 

The major difference was the balance in the two sides. I couldn't see anything, other than the first half's 4-2-3-1, what he was trying to implement.

[Rampage]

First half was a bit of a mess. I guess that's all I can call it: 

If I was going to put a formation to it:

Grant

Christie, Keogh, Shotton, Warnock

Thorne, Hanson

Hughes

Ince                                  Calero

Bent

Lots of problems: 1) the service to Bent was incredibly poor, and he was isolated. 2) Hughes, if he was meant to be playing an attacking role, kept coming to deep and the midfield three were trying to control a small space and left a lot of room around them. The passing was poor. 3) the defence was just unbalanced; Christie seemed to keep in his own half, as did Warnock. Shotton kept drifting over to the right hand side and the gap between Shotton and Warnock was three times the size of the game between Shotton and Keogh. 

Second half: 

Carson

Ssewankambo, Albentosa, Alex Pearce, Craig Forsyth

Baird

Bryson, Hendrick

Weimann                                            Russell

Sammon

Lots of positives: 1) a lot more organised and kept the ball really well - the structure of the midfield works very well. 2) Both full backs got forward and attacked. 3) Albentosa, very much right-sided, and Pearce looked very comfortable and balanced. 4) Sammon was able to get the ball down and play it to the four players surrounding him more often than not. 

The major difference was the balance in the two sides. I couldn't see anything, other than the first half's 4-2-3-1, what he was trying to implement.

Masterly post ambitious. Thanks,.Rampage

[Rampage]

Clement has said that NO player has a right to any position in the team. My starting eleven for the first half of the  Northampton game, if everyone is 1005 fit (not going to happen)

                        Carson

Keogh Albentosa Pearce Ssewankambo

                        Baird

                  Hughes Martin

              Ince Bent Weimann

 This is the only way to instantly eradicate the lack of understanding between the back five from last year. All those five would have to play for their original positions. Only Keogh is still in the back five from last year. I would abandon playing out from the back as it is often worse than a fifty fifty hoof upfield!!!

Second half -n similar shape with the remaining players.I know Ssewankambo is a right back.

The first hurdle that Derby need to clear is to STOP GOALS GOING IN.

[Inverurie Ram]

Derby County Supporters at Grimsby Town

http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/pictures/Derby-County-Supporters-cheer-Rams-Grimsby-Town/pictures-26905816-detail/pictures.html

 

[SaintRam]

2) Hughes, if he was meant to be playing an attacking role, kept coming to deep

This is Hughes biggest problem, does it way too much. Did it for the U21s as well. I don't really understand it. Like he's being commanding and getting on the ball, but his distribution from deep is pretty poor. He gestures to a defender to give him the ball and then plays a really simple pass they could have done, which often goes back to the defense.

He's a great player when looking forward, moving forward and passing forward. Getting the ball deep with his back to goal and he's almost useless. Really needs to be squeezed out of his game. Causes us problems, far more problems than our 'star' 'wonderkid' should, we lose out on him as an attacking threat and he always seems to want to let slow-medium paced passes roll across his body and attackers just run past him and steal it. A few of our goals blamed on our defense last season, and one of them against Grimsby, came directly from that scenario.