CheltenhamRam Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 How do we know Keogh isn't a leader in the dressing room...Because we're having this debate... and hardly any posters have supported his promotion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Sagan Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 If he's fit, George Thorne may be the man. Or if we bring in a really high calibre centrehalf, I'd give it them as part of the selling the club to them.Keogh has done well but is limited. The best centrebacks stay on their feet, yet Keogh always goes to ground making one last ditch tackle/block after another - that's the sign of a reasonably good defender, but one who doesn't anticipate well enough to reach the highest level. Because I want Keogh's position to at least be under threat as we seek to improve the defence, he wouldn't be my captain nect season as it would mean we'd stood still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Teale Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Because we're having this debate... and hardly any posters have supported his promotionWhat is the issue with him being captain. Do people actually believe we dropped away due to the captain?Do people actually think the side would play any different if martin wore the armband? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramos Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Christopher Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheltenhamRam Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 What is the issue with him being captain. Do people actually believe we dropped away due to the captain?In my opinion, as I have posted above and previously on this forum, he lacks the footballing and leadership qualities that I feel a captain requires. That isn't to say he shouldn't be in the XI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Teale Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 In my opinion, as I have posted above and previously on this forum, he lacks the footballing and leadership qualities that I feel a captain requires. That isn't to say he shouldn't be in the XI. What football qualities do you need to be a good captain? What leadership qualities don't you feel he has shown? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tombo Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Will Hughes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheltenhamRam Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 emj,Ask yourself this - if you were in the Derby team would you "play" for Keogh? (by that I mean raise your game that few %, change tactics etc) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheltenhamRam Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 What football qualities do you need to be a good captain? What leadership qualities don't you feel he has shown?I said you need *at least* one or the other. He isn't particularly strong in either. You seem to be on the defensive when people are simply offering their opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Pedantic....especially if that contributes to you not wanting him in team.you think Buxton is better ?I think once again that you aren't following the flow and context of what I am writing, I am NOT saying Martin has better histrionics and behaviour than Keogh, I AM saying that maybe the captains armband would see an improvement in Martin (compared to Martin himself now). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale The Ram Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Strikers dont make good captains imo, if its not going to be Keogh it should be a centre back or centre mid. Someone right in the action.Was just going to say this. Martin wont be able to see play from up front, it should be Thorne in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmericanRam Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 I think Mac will stick with Keogh tbh,but Hughes or Martin imo would be better options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Teale Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 emj,Ask yourself this - if you were in the Derby team would you "play" for Keogh? (by that I mean raise your game that few %, change tactics etc)So do you not believe that the players don't change their tactics if told? Do you actually believe in a football team the players are playing for the captain and raise their game a few % according to who that is? They play (or don't) for the manger and themselves. To be fair from what I have seen at the training ground he is a big character and is clearly the leader of the group and well liked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuff264 Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Was just going to say this. Martin wont be able to see play from up front, it should be Thorne in my opinion.Its difficult to say, I do think Keogh is the best option and unless he is sold he will be playing and captaining next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Teale Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 I said you need *at least* one or the other. He isn't particularly strong in either. You seem to be on the defensive when people are simply offering their opinion. I am just asking you to back your opinion up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheltenhamRam Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 So do you not believe that the players don't change their tactics if told? Do you actually believe in a football team the players are playing for the captain and raise their game a few % according to who that is? They play (or don't) for the manger and themselves. To be fair from what I have seen at the training ground he is a big character and is clearly the leader of the group and well liked.Well. Repeated instances of things like Bryson and Jeff charging round midfield aimlessly stick in my mind. Even at the level I play we would be looking to the captain to try and resolve the issue during the game. Good insight on the training ground stuff, but even Blackpool probably talked sense during the week...Again, this isn't an attack on Keogh or a suggestion he wouldn't be in my team. I just think we've better captain qualities elsewhere. Edit: to add, yes I do think players are more responsive to a captain that leads by example and can delegate/take responsibility during a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale The Ram Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Its difficult to say, I do think Keogh is the best option and unless he is sold he will be playing and captaining next season.Definitely, but I remember when George played his 1st return match (was is Bolton? we won 3-0 I think, awful memory) he took a professional foul on a player, turned straight to Keogh and told him to close the hole between him and the back 4. Showed real guts and knowledge and Keogh did just that.Im still undecided with Keogh. Always has a mistake in him but he makes up for it with some incredible blocks/tackles. I don't see him as a bad captain but when he does those runs and boots it at knee height to a player who isn't ready and it ends up either with the opposition or 20 yards away from the player he is happy enough to give a right earful to the player. I don't really like that side of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosmic Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Personally if Keogh is stripped of the captaincy then there would be a chance of him leaving.On the 2nd point, whilst possibly Martin would make a good captain, I have to add that he is the 1st player to get onto peoples backs regarding mistakes etc. I find it quite funny that if Keogh berates people after mistakes everyone would get on his back and say it is "poor leadership", yet if Martin does it, that's ok.I think a leader needs to be brought in personally, from the team at the moment I just don't see one.This is an interesting idea. The dressing room (probably) needs a shake up and a fresh attitude. A new face and leader could just be what the team needs to shake off the last two years of dissapointment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale The Ram Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 This is an interesting idea. The dressing room (probably) needs a shake up and a fresh attitude. A new face and leader could just be what the team needs to shake off the last two years of dissapointment.Mr. Andre Wisdom I can dream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Mr. Andre Wisdom I can dreamIf I'm going to criticise Keogh for concentration and decision making, I'd be a hypocrite if I said give Wisdom the armband.He seems to be ten times better a player for Derby since he left than he was when he was here! Even now, he's miles away from the level of consistency and concentration he needs. He is very very raw, and does need some coaching and a lot of work to improve.That said, his chest control is to die for! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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