Ovis aries Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 No proper D/M , automatic promotion flew out the window , no argument IMO , the plain fact speaks for itself.Who's fault is that ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Eustace, Omar and Thornes fault for getting injured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnram Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 No proper D/M , automatic promotion flew out the window , no argument IMO , the plain fact speaks for itself.Who's fault is that ?The fault lies squarely on the shoulders of the head coach. He picks the team, he chooses the system. Same could be said with the absence of Chris Martin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TroyDyer Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 No proper D/M , automatic promotion flew out the window , no argument IMO , the plain fact speaks for itself.Who's fault is that ?The inability of the coaching staff to play any other system than one that requires a recognised DM? A defensive midfielder as part of a 3 in central midfield isn't a requirement of every football team in the league. It's not like not having a keeper. Play another system.On the other hand, if you are a professional footballer, and don't have the professionalism and dedication to play the DM role when asked (Hendrick/Bryson/Hughes) without being sucked further up the field into a more familiar position, then I believe that there is some responsibility there too. Personally I think it's a bit of both. Same goes for playing Russell in the Chris Martin role when there is nothing about Russells game that would be successful in the Chris Martin role. A lot is said about the need for a plan B, and NC was much maligned for not developing one in his 5 years here. I think to be successful you need a plan b, c, d... This is the system we play with our strongest 11 available. This is how we play if we lose Martin to injury or suspension. This is how we play if we lose Eustace (Thorne was already gone before the season started). This is how we play if we lose Forsyth's runs up the wing. This is how we play when we are trailing. This is how we play when we are 2 nil up in the 3rd minute of injury time... etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animal is a Ram Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 For me, its the same reasons.a) The persistence with the model that we clearly don't have the (uninjured) personnel to play within it.Eustace, Mascarell and Thorne all injured, resulting in the only 'proper' defensive mid being an u21 graduate - who's natural position for said youth setup is centre half. Why aren't we using Hanson, if we are insistent on using the holding mid? It's been clear from last season that none of Hughes/Hendrick/Bryson cannot play there - and that it has to be pick two from those three and now Dawkins, who has shown himself to be a natural fit for the CM role. I'm amazed he hasn't been used there before, considering he has never looked truly comfortable out playing that 'inverted winger' role that Ince, Ibe and Russell have done so effectively this season.b) The main issue is though, that lack of a settled back four. Buxton is by far the best natural defender we have. Albentosa needed pre-season to learn the lingo, the squad and the 'English game', Whitbread has looked decent but is a perpetual sick note, Keogh has been mostly consistent (named in the PFA's Championship XI), Forsyth and Christie have either been fantastic or awful, and the former is NOT a centre half by any stretch. Considering Warnock's vast experience and leadership (captain of Leeds, although it hasn't showed), he's not been great. I don't understand how he hasn't hit the ground running, looks like he's been out the Championship for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daaave Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 No but there's solace in the knowledge that you gave it to your cheating ex and therefore also the ***** she ran off with. Sorry mate but I think she might've given it to you in that situation Unless you were cheating as well of course, or practice shoddy sexual health. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovis aries Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 I have not worked it out fully , but the games without Eustace , or Mascarell appearing in ( I include matches where either where selected as sub but did not com on ) , is , without a second check , P 10 W 2 D 4 L 4 .That's averaging one point a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 For me, its the same reasons.a) The persistence with the model that we clearly don't have the (uninjured) personnel to play within it.Eustace, Mascarell and Thorne all injured, resulting in the only 'proper' defensive mid being an u21 graduate - who's natural position for said youth setup is centre half. Why aren't we using Hanson, if we are insistent on using the holding mid? It's been clear from last season that none of Hughes/Hendrick/Bryson cannot play there - and that it has to be pick two from those three and now Dawkins, who has shown himself to be a natural fit for the CM role. I'm amazed he hasn't been used there before, considering he has never looked truly comfortable out playing that 'inverted winger' role that Ince, Ibe and Russell have done so effectively this season.b) The main issue is though, that lack of a settled back four. Buxton is by far the best natural defender we have. Albentosa needed pre-season to learn the lingo, the squad and the 'English game', Whitbread has looked decent but is a perpetual sick note, Keogh has been mostly consistent (named in the PFA's Championship XI), Forsyth and Christie have either been fantastic or awful, and the former is NOT a centre half by any stretch. Considering Warnock's vast experience and leadership (captain of Leeds, although it hasn't showed), he's not been great. I don't understand how he hasn't hit the ground running, looks like he's been out the Championship for years.Did you know Buxton is injured ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animal is a Ram Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Did you know Buxton is injured ?Can't tell if sarcasm. Of course I know he's injured.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 I disagree with the majority of you. Not having a comfortable DM does not create stupid errors in other players and then affect the confidence of the whole team.Fans MUST take responsibility here. Fans ruined things when we were top of the league, long before the mistakes and injuries.List all the teams that have BATTERED us during this crap run! There aren't many. We have beaten ourselves by being clumsy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlsonDerby Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 I disagree with the majority of you. Not having a comfortable DM does not create stupid errors in other players and then affect the confidence of the whole team.Fans MUST take responsibility here. Fans ruined things when we were top of the league, long before the mistakes and injuries.List all the teams that have BATTERED us during this crap run! There aren't many. We have beaten ourselves by being clumsy Are you going to continue blaming the fans? Clear the players and the manager of any responsibility because the big bad fans said some nasty words when professionals cannot manage a 10 yard pass to a team mate? Christ the people solely blaming the players, the people solely blaming mac and yourself are all such extreme views.Maybe its a combination of the players getting complacent, the fans becoming disgruntled, the manager not acting quick enough to revert to a system that suits the personnel available, the fans venting their frustration in not the most helpful platform (during a game), the players letting the groans get to them when they themselves know the silly mistakes they have been making well justify some of the groans. (I'm not talking about abuse aimed at selected scapegoats but fans are allowed to be annoyed at misplaced passes by a team who we KNOW are better than what we have been seeing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovis aries Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 I disagree with the majority of you. Not having a comfortable DM does not create stupid errors in other players and then affect the confidence of the whole team.Fans MUST take responsibility here. Fans ruined things when we were top of the league, long before the mistakes and injuries.List all the teams that have BATTERED us during this crap run! There aren't many. We have beaten ourselves by being clumsy None so blind as those that can not see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 None so blind as those that can not see.not sure if this is in agreement or not.How many of the three we conceded on Saturday would you say could've been avoided with a decent Defensive Midfielder? What about the four the week before? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 For me, its the same reasons.a) The persistence with the model that we clearly don't have the (uninjured) personnel to play within it.Eustace, Mascarell and Thorne all injured, resulting in the only 'proper' defensive mid being an u21 graduate - who's natural position for said youth setup is centre half. Why aren't we using Hanson, if we are insistent on using the holding mid? It's been clear from last season that none of Hughes/Hendrick/Bryson cannot play there - and that it has to be pick two from those three and now Dawkins, who has shown himself to be a natural fit for the CM role. I'm amazed he hasn't been used there before, considering he has never looked truly comfortable out playing that 'inverted winger' role that Ince, Ibe and Russell have done so effectively this season.b) The main issue is though, that lack of a settled back four. Buxton is by far the best natural defender we have. Albentosa needed pre-season to learn the lingo, the squad and the 'English game', Whitbread has looked decent but is a perpetual sick note, Keogh has been mostly consistent (named in the PFA's Championship XI), Forsyth and Christie have either been fantastic or awful, and the former is NOT a centre half by any stretch. Considering Warnock's vast experience and leadership (captain of Leeds, although it hasn't showed), he's not been great. I don't understand how he hasn't hit the ground running, looks like he's been out the Championship for years.Agree with that entirely. I've got moans about Mac. Don't need to go fishing into "lost the dressing room , coffee cup, going to Newcastle" Poirot investigations.You're spot on imo. There's no super hidden secret. The back 4 aren't settled. We're playing a defensive midfielder without a defensive midfielder. At some points we've lost 2 strikers and near on 30 goals.Why do we need daft stories? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animal is a Ram Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Agree with that entirely. I've got moans about Mac. Don't need to go fishing into "lost the dressing room , coffee cup, going to Newcastle" Poirot investigations.You're spot on imo. There's no super hidden secret. The back 4 aren't settled. We're playing a defensive midfielder without a defensive midfielder. At some points we've lost 2 strikers and near on 30 goals.Why do we need daft stories?I'm a cynic when it comes to these bullsh*t half-arsed rumours.. and yet my dad (who would be the last person I'd expect) has fallen for them hook, line and sinker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastKentRam Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 I reckon pressure and expectation explains a lot of the mistakes. Players like Forsyth and Christie have never struck me as the sort you would want in a time of crisis. They look scared sh*tless a lot of the time. Grant's obviously low on confidence, some of his errors have been horrendous. Confidence and self belief in sport plays such a huge role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Kevin Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 There's a lot in what EKR said , also I think it's a perfect storm of injuries to key players ,inability to change tactic's around those injuries and I do believe Mac has tinkered too much even taking into account those players missing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovis aries Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 not sure if this is in agreement or not.How many of the three we conceded on Saturday would you say could've been avoided with a decent Defensive Midfielder? What about the four the week before?Do you think we would have lost to Fulham and Brighton with a D/M playing ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Do you think we would have lost to Fulham and Brighton with a D/M playing ?We would have lost at Fulham if we had Lothar Matthaus playing defensive midfield. As far as I'm aware, we had 11 players missing for that game, not just a DM!As for Brighton, I genuinely cannot recall how we conceded goals or what the final score was, but I vaguely remember thinking we should've scored 6 goals! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 The crazy thing is, that it feels like we’ve made so much progress since Clough went and Mac came in.Yet where we we, when he arrived? 4-1 down to Ipswich at half time, unable to defend the simplest attacks, but plenty of team spirit and goals in us..All McClaren needed to do was sort the defence out.And we may yet finish outside the play-offs.Have we really progressed at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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