ram59 Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 FA Cup, I've dreamt about winning it for 45 years now. I've seen 3 promotions to the top flight, all very enjoyable, but all have been undone sooner or later. Winning the cup cannot be undone. If we had this choice in 2007, wouldn't you rather we had won the cup compared to our premier league season. Remember we beat Southampton and WBA in the playoffs and look where they have been for the last few seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BondJovi Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Either way, moments like this have been fleeting for our club in recent years, may as well get carried away, go crazy, enjoy it. For the immediate future, promotion is what we want, but for the prestige in years to come, has to be the cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovis aries Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 FA Cup, I've dreamt about winning it for 45 years now. I've seen 3 promotions to the top flight, all very enjoyable, but all have been undone sooner or later. Winning the cup cannot be undone. If we had this choice in 2007, wouldn't you rather we had won the cup compared to our premier league season. Remember we beat Southampton and WBA in the playoffs and look where they have been for the last few seasons. Spose it is different for you whippersnappers that were not around when we won the FA Cup . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daz_The_Ram Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 You genuinely believe that finishing top of the table in the second tier is a greater achievement that winning the nations premier cup competition that all teams compete for? When Wigan fans sit back and reminisce about better times do you really think they treasure the promotion campaign under Paul Jewell more than the FA Cup under Martinez? Are you serious? You are romantisising from your armchair, and still missing the point. If you have ever played in a side that has won a league championship AT ANY LEVEL ... you will take my point about what a brilliant and unforgettable achievement it is. Any player, any manager, anyone in the game, would sooner the league success. Do you realise how difficult it is to be so consistent week in, week out, that you finish off better than everyone else after a six month long season? By belittling the idea of winning the league championship, and thinking only of the negatives of getting into the top flight, you are dreadfully guilty of SKY Sports - itis I'm afraid. Sod it, lets not bother getting promoted ... its alright lads ... take your foot off the gas ... forget it, its a waste of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuff264 Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 1. Winning the league 2. FA Cup 3. Automatics 4. Play offs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daz_The_Ram Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 By the way ... I'm afraid that the FA Cup is no longer a 'premier competition' It is now a romantic sideshow. It carries very little of the KUDOS that it did. Don't get me wrong, it would be a wonderful experience as a fan ... but lets not lose sight of what is a REAL and GENUINE footballing achievement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kernow Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 1. Winning the league 2. FA Cup 3. Automatics 4. Play offs So you'd value FA Cup below finishing top but above finishing second? Why? It means the same thing, and doesn't guarantee more success when promoted. I personally couldn't give a damn if we finish first or second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramsbottom Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 It isn't a matter of trust. It's a matter of looking at the facts and not being completely delusional. One glance at the history of the premiership will show you that unless you are one of the elite teams in the country you will most likely only be able to survive at premiership level for a few years at a time. Of the current 20 premier league teams only 8 of them have been there for more than 7 seasons. It's not a case of being delusional. If you want to look back at history our relegations were directly effected by dealings of the board. Maxwell getting bored and selling our best players, Lionel keeping Jim Smith on a season longer than he should've because they were drinking buddies and our current board because they were advised poorly by Peasron/Glick. Now they've learned the ropes and Sam Rush is running things the risk of repeating past mistakes isn't likely. Im not expecting us to win the premiership and champions league but we're well capable of emulating Southampton and Swansea's plan in establishing ourselves and competing for trophies while not bankrupting ourselves. If they can do it so can we... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuff264 Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 So you'd value FA Cup below finishing top but above finishing second? Why? It means the same thing, and doesn't guarantee more success when promoted. I personally couldn't give a damn if we finish first or second. All about getting your name on the trophy, no one remembers who came second Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daz_The_Ram Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 'The league is our bread and butter ... winning the league is what we want to do all of the time.' 'If you are first, you are first. If you are second, you are nothing.' - Bill Shankly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anon Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Are you serious? You are romantisising from your armchair, and still missing the point. If you have ever played in a side that has won a league championship AT ANY LEVEL ... you will take my point about what a brilliant and unforgettable achievement it is. Any player, any manager, anyone in the game, would sooner the league success. Do you realise how difficult it is to be so consistent week in, week out, that you finish off better than everyone else after a six month long season? By belittling the idea of winning the league championship, and thinking only of the negatives of getting into the top flight, you are dreadfully guilty of SKY Sports - itis I'm afraid. Sod it, lets not bother getting promoted ... its alright lads ... take your foot off the gas ... forget it, its a waste of time. At what level, in your opinion, does winning the league become a lesser achievement than winning the FA Cup? All the same arguments you've given apply to teams in league 1. Would it be better to win the league 1 title than the FA Cup? League 2? Also, I don't get you denigrating the FA Cup as a competition whilst claiming the second tier winners trophy is "some famous old silverware". No one remembers who won the 2nd division in 1987, but they remember who won the FA Cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 FA Cup. Anyone who says anything else is short-sighted. We won the FA Cup in 1946 but can anyone tell me about any of our promotions into the first division before 1968-69? History doesn't remember them. And aside from that, I wouldn't want to give Sky the satisfaction of saying "promotion" either. I'm desperate to agree with you. An actual trophy!!! A place in history!! The idea of Valencia at the iPro!!! But I don't want to lose this manager and some of the players. I don't want this to be the chance that passed us. So I have to say promotion But I'm disgusted with myself. I'd rather play Sunderland and Palace than win the FA Cup. That's tragic for football. But we'll get both so it doesn't matter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anon Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 It's not a case of being delusional. If you want to look back at history our relegations were directly effected by dealings of the board. Maxwell getting bored and selling our best players, Lionel keeping Jim Smith on a season longer than he should've because they were drinking buddies and our current board because they were advised poorly by Peasron/Glick. Now they've learned the ropes and Sam Rush is running things the risk of repeating past mistakes isn't likely. Im not expecting us to win the premiership and champions league but we're well capable of emulating Southampton and Swansea's plan in establishing ourselves and competing for trophies while not bankrupting ourselves. If they can do it so can we... I do admire your optimism and I genuinely hope we can follow the lead of those clubs. My point is that even though they Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daz_The_Ram Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 ;-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anon Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Ridiculous. You are missing the point entirely and not reading properly what I have stated. Have you ever laced a pair of boots up and gone out there? As a player, yes, i would say from a professional standpoint, winning the league as a squad would carry far more weight as an achievement. Winning a cup is a one-off, five minutes of joy... Anyone can do it...it boils down the 'eleven men against eleven men'. However, really good, memorable sides win titles. Wimbledon won it in an era by the way during, as I alluded to, an era when the cup was thought of in far greater terms. The great achievement for Wimbledon was climbing four divisions in as many seasons. THAT is the ethos of their great story ... the cup win was the climax... but it was a one off 90 minutes. Which of the two sides in that match were truly memorable? I'll tell you ... Liverpool. Why? Because they dominated the league for a decade. I'm not sure we're arguing about the same thing. This thread is about promotion or the FA Cup. You seem to be discussing the merits of actually winning the Premier League or the FA Cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daz_The_Ram Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 At what level, in your opinion, does winning the league become a lesser achievement than winning the FA Cup? All the same arguments you've given apply to teams in league 1. Would it be better to win the league 1 title than the FA Cup? League 2? Also, I don't get you denigrating the FA Cup as a competition whilst claiming the second tier winners trophy is "some famous old silverware". No one remembers who won the 2nd division in 1987, but they remember who won the FA Cup. Ridiculous. You are missing the point entirely and not reading properly what I have stated. Have you ever laced a pair of boots up and gone out there? As a player, yes, i would say from a professional standpoint, winning the league as a squad would carry far more weight as an achievement. Winning a cup is a one-off, five minutes of joy... Anyone can do it...it boils down the 'eleven men against eleven men' theory. However, really good, memorable sides win titles. Wimbledon won it in an era by the way during which, as I alluded to, the cup was thought of in far greater terms...there is no doubt that it was a magnificent story. I watched the game, it was unbelievable. The really great achievement for Wimbledon however, was climbing four divisions in as many seasons to be there with a shout in the first place. THAT is the ethos of their great story ... the cup win was the climax... but it was a one off 90 minutes. Which of the two sides in that match were truly memorable? I'll tell you ... Liverpool. Why? Because they dominated the league for a decade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daz_The_Ram Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 No I am not. I'm telling you that winning a title after a six month long season, is far more difficult an achievement, than winning a few one off ties. It really isn't rocket science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramsbottom Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 I do admire your optimism and I genuinely hope we can follow the lead of those clubs. My point is that even though they Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anon Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 No I am not. I'm telling you that winning a title after a six month long season, is far more difficult an achievement, than winning a few one off ties. It really isn't rocket science. Ok, then I'm telling you that winning a league where the 20 best teams in the country are excluded from taking part is definitively a lesser achievement than winning a knock out tournament in which they do compete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daz_The_Ram Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Deary me ... I hope the armchair is comfortable. 'Forget it lads. The title is worthless ... yeah, your six months of sacrifice and hard graft? Pointless. I wouldn't bother. Lets just sit and watch Sky Sports News and read the OPTA Index for a bit.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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