PistoldPete2 Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 No, you are right, there are no easy solutions, either in law or culturally. It will often come down to who is more believable and that's why the victim's character is so often given a mauling by the defence (and why so many victims simply don't want to go through it). Cultural changes need to take place - women need to exist in an environment where they are not objectified by men, where they can behave in ways similar to men without being stigmatised as a 'slag' or 'asking for it', or any of the other phrases trolled out by men who can't control themselves. Women need to be given more respect and men need to control themselves. In short, we need a much more civilised society. No easy solutions. Yes but in your pursuit of a more civilised society, shouldnt women also be encouraged to behave with more restraint? The ladette culture has developed since I was young. No woman deserves to be raped of course , but I think there is nothing wrong with encouraging a more careful and restrained behaviour amongst women as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Yes but in your pursuit of a more civilised society, shouldnt women also be encouraged to behave with more restraint? The ladette culture has developed since I was young. No woman deserves to be raped of course , but I think there is nothing wrong with encouraging a more careful and restrained behaviour amongst women as well. Oh, I'm not pursuing it. It's a hopeless case for me. Restraint all round might help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistoldPete2 Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Oh, I'm not pursuing it. It's a hopeless case for me. Restraint all round might help. Good stuff , I'm too old for that shenanigans anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 I remember now that something like this happened to someone i used to work with in sheffield. He took a girl back to a hotel in sheffield. They had sex. She fell asleep and he thought it would be funny to buggger off and leave her. I don't know if that was because he didn't want to pay for the room. She woke up next day and found he had been humiliated and called the Police saying her credit card had been stolen. He was arrested and interviewed and i think there may have have been a possibility of being quizzed about rape but i don't remember. I think in the Ched Evans case a similar thing happens. She wakes up on her own. Feels humiliated. She has no handbag, no money, no phone. She must worry whether she has to pay for the room. How is she going to get home. She has to go to reception probably feeling embarrassed, and has to call her mum to collect her. What is she going to say to her mum? That she was pisssed, and went back to a total strangers hotel room and doesn't know what happened to her hand bag and phone? Or maybe its easier to suggest that she may have been drugged and possibly raped? One you say that you can't go back on it and a whole series of events are set in motion. In this case those events culminated in the jury deciding that evans had taken advantage of an inebriated girl and therefore that he was guilty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRainy Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 I remember now that something like this happened to someone i used to work with in sheffield. He took a girl back to a hotel in sheffield. They had sex. She fell asleep and he thought it would be funny to buggger off and leave her. I don't know if that was because he didn't want to pay for the room. She woke up next day and found he had been humiliated and called the Police saying her credit card had been stolen. He was arrested and interviewed and i think there may have have been a possibility of being quizzed about rape but i don't remember. I think in the Ched Evans case a similar thing happens. She wakes up on her own. Feels humiliated. She has no handbag, no money, no phone. She must worry whether she has to pay for the room. How is she going to get home. She has to go to reception probably feeling embarrassed, and has to call her mum to collect her. What is she going to say to her mum? That she was pisssed, and went back to a total strangers hotel room and doesn't know what happened to her hand bag and phone? Or maybe its easier to suggest that she may have been drugged and possibly raped? One you say that you can't go back on it and a whole series of events are set in motion. In this case those events culminated in the jury deciding that evans had taken advantage of an inebriated girl and therefore that he was guilty. What the fook are you talking about? Evans was found guilty by a jury who had access to all the evidence.. you're speculating on a football forum when you don't know jack. It just looks like you have some other agenda with regard to women. Maybe go and support Sheffield United, where you can join them in singing, 'he shags who he wants', or go on sausageter, abuse the victim on there as well. Can't believe the attitude of some people on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 What the fook are you talking about? Evans was found guilty by a jury who had access to all the evidence.. you're speculating on a football forum when you don't know jack. It just looks like you have some other agenda with regard to women. Maybe go and support Sheffield United, where you can join them in singing, 'he shags who he wants', or go on sausageter, abuse the victim on there as well. Can't believe the attitude of some people on here. Calm down dear.....i'm not actually that interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRainy Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Calm down dear.....i'm not actually that interested. It was a bloody long post for something you're not interested in. Not getting at you particularly, but there does seem to be a subliminal sexism around which finds it easier to blame the woman. The way Sheffield U fans behaved after the conviction was appalling, including publicly naming the victim. Disappointed to find similar sentiments on here, that's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anon Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Given the evidence, I think one thing we can all agree on is to never ever go out on the pull in Rhyl. Also, is it gay to go down on a lass after your mate has been sausaging her? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Not getting at you particularly..... Really? If you read my posts there is no sexism. actually i 'think' he took probably advantage of her and her inebriated condition. Its just that what we 'think' happened is not supposed to count is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRainy Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 Its just that what we 'think' happened is not supposed to count is it? Why bother with all the speculation about the victim making it up then? Just accept the verdict of the jury; it's the best anyone's got when deciding if Evans should play football again. For what it's worth, I 'think' if the woman was going to make a false accusation in a situation like the one you described, she'd come up with something better than not being able to remember what happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 Why bother with all the speculation. Because its a forum, where we can discuss ideas, possibilities, maybes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRainy Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 A thread about whether or not a convicted rapist should return to professional football turned into a discussion about the character, behaviour and morality of the victim. That seems to me to clearly reflect the inherent sexism of a predominantly male forum readership. If you still see it as perfectly neutral, unbiased discussion, then we will have to disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
True Ram Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 A thread about whether or not a convicted rapist should return to professional football turned into a discussion about the character, behaviour and morality of the victim. That seems to me to clearly reflect the inherent sexism of a predominantly male forum readership. If you still see it as perfectly neutral, unbiased discussion, then we will have to disagree. should never be aloud to play football again should have rapist tattooed on his forehead if a women say no it means no even if you are just about to have intercourse just because they think the are professional footballers or celebs thy can do what they like and everybody believes them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistoldPete2 Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 should never be aloud to play football again should have rapist tattooed on his forehead if a women say no it means no even if you are just about to have intercourse just because they think the are professional footballers or celebs thy can do what they like and everybody believes them Did she say No? She says she cant remember. I agree with Lambchop its not helpful or necessary to assume she is lying. But what if they are both telling the truth. He says she said yes, she says she cant remember and they are both telling the truth? What if someone at the nightclub spiked her drink with a date rape drug? She may feel aggrieved about what happened. Evans might feel aggrieved that he gets the blame for it, he didnt spike anyone's drink he only showed up after his mate had already had sex with her. I dont think anyone needs to blame the woman but i do think its not always fair to blame the man. Sometimes , and I think this is maybe a case in point, **** just happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramarena Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 Lost to Chessie today, natives sound restless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_Dawn Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 Is he a rapist, or is he the victim of circumstance. I.e a women waking up an regretting what she did? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 Is he a rapist, or is he the victim of circumstance. I.e a women waking up an regretting what she did? Rapist. Said so in an English court of law. Until proven otherwise of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted October 4, 2014 Author Share Posted October 4, 2014 Englush law doesnt prove you didnt do something. If you are found not guilty it jyst means there's reasonable doubt about the fact that you did it If his appeal is granted then it doesnt mean innocence is proven, just there is enough doubt about guilt to not convict. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 True I guess but it's not libellous to call him a rapist until an appeal finds him not guilty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i-Ram Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 From wikipedia, for what it is worth. British law doesn't include male rape as a criminal offense and it is recorded as non-consensual buggery. The convicted rapist can be imprisoned for life, stated Henry Leak, the chairman of Survivors organization, while buggery only carries 10 years maximum as a sentence. Well, I'll be buggered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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