The gardeners have downed tools

[WilkoRam]

The shift change on this forum is very interesting. Those who complained of personal insults towards Nigel seem perfectly content to make them towards Sam or at least not object to them.

Also this talk of Keane is odd to say the least. So Nigel was about to bring in a CB, finally. He got sacked so unsurprisingly that deal didn't happen. McClaren has come in and decided to sign someone else. Now Keane is being held up as someone we should have got in and it's all Rush's fault that we haven't. I'm not sure how much people know about Keane in comparison to Wisdom or why it's anyone's 'fault' that it hasn't happened and not just the new manager wanting a different player. I'm sure if we had signed Keane after Nigel left then we'd probably have people saying "we were in for Keane before McClaren came in, shows that the transfers are being dictated by Rush. He must think he knows more than the manager"

I personally don't understand the vitriol aimed at Rush. He sacked a manager you liked, he acted on what he thought was the best interest of the investors. You may not agree but the level of hatred amazes me. Unless of course he's guilty of some horrendous crime I'm not aware of.

Oh yeah and McClaren hasn't sorted the defence out. It's a bit early to suggest he should have, not that anyone is suggesting that. It's someone else's back 5 he's working with. He's looking at, and bringing in, different options and we will see what happens. At least he's not saying there's nothing out there better than what we have and that he's happy with what we have, whilst we sit with a large amount in the goals against column.

[eddie]

What McClaren has done immediately is to ensure that we penetrated the opposition's back line more times than they got through ours. That's good enough for me.

[uttoxram75]

The shift change on this forum is very interesting. Those who complained of personal insults towards Nigel seem perfectly content to make them towards Sam or at least not object to them.

Also this talk of Keane is odd to say the least. So Nigel was about to bring in a CB, finally. He got sacked so unsurprisingly that deal didn't happen. McClaren has come in and decided to sign someone else. Now Keane is being held up as someone we should have got in and it's all Rush's fault that we haven't. I'm not sure how much people know about Keane in comparison to Wisdom or why it's anyone's 'fault' that it hasn't happened and not just the new manager wanting a different player. I'm sure if we had signed Keane after Nigel left then we'd probably have people saying "we were in for Keane before McClaren came in, shows that the transfers are being dictated by Rush. He must think he knows more than the manager"

I personally don't understand the vitriol aimed at Rush. He sacked a manager you liked, he acted on what he thought was the best interest of the investors. You may not agree but the level of hatred amazes me. Unless of course he's guilty of some horrendous crime I'm not aware of.

Oh yeah and McClaren hasn't sorted the defence out. It's a bit early to suggest he should have, not that anyone is suggesting that. It's someone else's back 5 he's working with. He's looking at, and bringing in, different options and we will see what happens. At least he's not saying there's nothing out there better than what we have and that he's happy with what we have, whilst we sit with a large amount in the goals against column.

 

 

Without double checking there is only a couple of posters who have criticised Rush. I think you are guilty of over reacting to something that annoys you. I think a lot of us do it!

From memory, many more slagged Glick off and at the end of the day, the boards mouthpiece is not there to be liked.

 

What is important is that no one is slagging Steve, Simmo and Eric off and everybody seems to be behind them.

[WilkoRam]

Without double checking there is only a couple of posters who have criticised Rush. I think you are guilty of over reacting to something that annoys you. I think a lot of us do it!

From memory, many more slagged Glick off and at the end of the day, the boards mouthpiece is not there to be liked.

What is important is that no one is slagging Steve, Simmo and Eric off and everybody seems to be behind them.

Maybe only one or two on this thread but there's a few about.

You're right though maybe I am overreacting to it as it annoys me. It annoys me that he's painted as the devil incarnate by some due to this decision. I think there's a significant increase in hatred and picking his actions apart since he sacked Nigel.

You're right again. It's good that nobody is currently slagging off the new coaches. In fact a lot if people who liked Nigel say they aren't against the appointment. It's refreshing.

[May Contain Nuts]

Just because we've mentioned clean sheets, thought I'd total up how many we got under Nigel. This isn't a dig at anyone, just a fact-finding mission.

 

2008/09 4 (< half season)
2009/10 17
2010/11 10
2011/12 13
2012/13 9
2013/14 1

 

54 clean sheets in 233 games, so a clean sheet every 4.31 games.

In itself that doesn't even sound terrible to me, but then I've got nothing to compare it against.

[Alph]

I'm not joining sides because tbh I don't really care about the past but its worth remembering Nigel's home games mostly all tough. Just saying that. Not implying anything but

Reading

Leicester

Burnley

Or

Leeds

Birmingham

Again, just throwing that out there.

[ronnieronalde]

The shift change on this forum is very interesting. Those who complained of 1) personal insults towards Nigel seem perfectly content to make them towards Sam or at least not object to them.

Also this talk of Keane is odd to say the least. So Nigel was about to bring in a CB, finally. He got sacked so unsurprisingly that deal didn't happen. McClaren has come in and decided to sign someone else.2) Now Keane is being held up as someone we should have got in and it's all Rush's fault that we haven't. I'm not sure how much people know about Keane in comparison to Wisdom or why it's anyone's 'fault' that it hasn't happened and not just the new manager wanting a different player. I'm sure if we had signed Keane after Nigel left then we'd probably have people saying "we were in for Keane before McClaren came in, shows that the transfers are being dictated by Rush. He must think he knows more than the manager"

I personally don't understand the vitriol aimed at Rush. He sacked a manager you liked, he acted on what he thought was the best interest of the investors. You may not agree but the 3) level of hatred amazes me. Unless of course he's guilty of some horrendous crime I'm not aware of.

Oh yeah 4) and McClaren hasn't sorted the defence out. It's a bit early to suggest he should have, not that anyone is suggesting that. It's someone else's back 5 he's working with. He's looking at, and bringing in, different options and we will see what happens. At least he's not saying there's nothing out there better than what we have and that he's happy with what we have, whilst we sit with a large amount in the goals against column.

 

 

1) i've said this before Wilko, you find an argument or start a debate about something that simply isnt true. There are no personll insults. There are one or two digs about his beard and his was of talking and hie lies but no personal insults. I'm skating on thin ice but there are no insults. I just don't want my CEO to be a liar, why is that so bad?

 

2) Don't twist the argument here please, it's not that Keane hasn't come, it's that Rush felt the need to say Keane HAD MORE CHANCE OF COMING NOW THAT MCCLAREN WAS HERE. What a ridiculously stupid statement to make.

 

3) level of hatred? Come on Wilko don't be such a drama queen.

 

4) Of course he hasn't sorted the defence out, I wouldn't expect him to do it. It's like I said last week, HE'S CHANGED NOTHING SO FAR, we're still playing the same way and still making the same mistakes, I was hammered for saying it.

[eddie]

Bananas

[Grimbeard]

Aannnd.......relax.

Never mind, as you were.

[Bris Vegas]

Some of the comments in here are hilarious..

[WilkoRam]

1) i've said this before Wilko, you find an argument or start a debate about something that simply isnt true. There are no personll insults. There are one or two digs about his beard and his was of talking and hie lies but no personal insults. I'm skating on thin ice but there are no insults. I just don't want my CEO to be a liar, why is that so bad? 2) Don't twist the argument here please, it's not that Keane hasn't come, it's that Rush felt the need to say Keane HAD MORE CHANCE OF COMING NOW THAT MCCLAREN WAS HERE. What a ridiculously stupid statement to make. 3) level of hatred? Come on Wilko don't be such a drama queen. 4) Of course he hasn't sorted the defence out, I wouldn't expect him to do it. It's like I said last week, HE'S CHANGED NOTHING SO FAR, we're still playing the same way and still making the same mistakes, I was hammered for saying it.

1) someone said on here about Rush being wiped out by a bus and something about a sucking noise when he talks. If anyone mentioned 'errrr' and Nigel then it was all "leave him alone" 2) how do you know is ridiculous? You said "so where is he then" as if he should have been signed for the statement to be correct. Could just be McClaren wanted someone else so to scrutinise the statement and conclude with "so where is he then" is misleading to so the least. 3) I beg your pardon? Drama queen? In the weeks since Nigel has gone you have spent most of your time on here telling folk to leave him alone, that they've got their wish, and speaking of character assassination and the merest comment of him being armature. Yet you call someone else a drama queen. 4) on this thread someone wrote that McClaren had made sorting the defence out as a priority. You replied asking how many clean sheets we've kept. Nobody had said he'd sorted it out so talk about picking arguments that aren't there. This is now completely off topic and I don't come on here to get in a one on one p*****g competition so I'm leaving it there.

[ronnieronalde]

1) someone said on here about Rush being wiped out by a bus and something about a sucking noise when he talks. If anyone mentioned 'errrr' and Nigel then it was all "leave him alone" 2) how do you know is ridiculous? You said "so where is he then" as if he should have been signed for the statement to be correct. Could just be McClaren wanted someone else so to scrutinise the statement and conclude with "so where is he then" is misleading to so the least. 3) I beg your pardon? Drama queen? In the weeks since Nigel has gone you have spent most of your time on here telling folk to leave him alone, that they've got their wish, and speaking of character assassination and the merest comment of him being armature. Yet you call someone else a drama queen. 4) on this thread someone wrote that McClaren had made sorting the defence out as a priority. You replied asking how many clean sheets we've kept. Nobody had said he'd sorted it out so talk about picking arguments that aren't there. This is now completely off topic and I don't come on here to get in a one on one p*****g competition so I'm leaving it there.

 

 

1) I said I hoped he gets splashed by a puddle by a passing bus every day for the rest of sodding life.

 

That's hardly wiped out Wilko and I think that's set the tone for the rest of your post. You've read want you want to read.

 

I won't argue about point number 2, you think it's ok that he makes stupid statements, I don't. Why doesn't he just shut up and say nowt, or be honest.

 

Honestly Wilko, my main point here is I believe he's lied to me,not only once over the last couple of weeks either, why can't I question that? If you can dig out his interview away at the brighton game, you might start to see what I mean.

 

3) I never gave a **** about someone complaining that Nige says err a lot, I complained about people calling him a C@@T or a clown, or even an amateur, he's been a professional making a lving out of the game for 28 years. What part of that is amateur?

 

As for McClaren again you're reading what you want to read. I wasn't the one coming on here saying all of our problems were sorted and we played like world beaters at Watford.

 

4) McClaren has made a very good start, very good indeed. But he hasn't had time to transform anything. That's not me saying it's his fault. He's working on it but it's work in progress.

 

As for the pissing competition, seriously what is it about this place that people can't have their view questioned without going on a hissy fit.

 

Jesus Christ get some balls and come back and tell me why I'm wrong. You're way to sensitive about your own posts.

[WilkoRam]

As you were everyone. Me and Ronnie can take this outside (PM instead)

[ronnieronalde]

As you were everyone. Me and Ronnie can take this outside (PM instead)

 

 

Sorry WIlko, honestly not trying to be a cock here but I don't see a need for PM ing this. I think the point of a forum is to have your own views publicly stated and to stand by those views. Out in the open for all to see. I won't hide that behind a PM even if it means I'm unpopular. The Mostyn PM was a bit different I think we both probably needed to tell the other one why we behaved the way we did.

 

It's just football chat Wilko, it's not going any further than that, no matter how frustrated we might make each other. If you want to carry it on. let's carry it on on here. If not then lets just drop it and I'll only reply again if there is any more added.

 

I thought my comments about him getting splashed and his air sucking were funny. They made me smile at least. I'm not making it up though, watch one of his interviews and see what he does.

 

I can see why that's a bit contradictory so I'll stop making jokes about his appearance and his false camera presence and just concentrate on listening to what he says.

 

Thanks for letting me know that I hadn't asked for him to be wiped out by a bus though. I appreciate that.

 

Hell we drew yesterday, it's not the end of the world, we've got 7 out of 9 under the new coach, FOOTBALL WISE things are going well, it's just this one little tiny boardroom thing that I can't let go yet.

 

Give me some time please, you had four and half years, I've not had four and half weeks yet.

[WilkoRam]

Sorry WIlko, honestly not trying to be a cock here but I don't see a need for PM ing this. I think the point of a forum is to have your own views publicly stated and to stand by those views. Out in the open for all to see. I won't hide that behind a PM even if it means I'm unpopular. The Mostyn PM was a bit different I think we both probably needed to tell the other one why we behaved the way we did.

It's just football chat Wilko, it's not going any further than that, no matter how frustrated we might make each other. If you want to carry it on. let's carry it on on here. If not then lets just drop it and I'll only reply again if there is any more added.

I thought my comments about him getting splashed and his air sucking were funny. They made me smile at least. I'm not making it up though, watch one of his interviews and see what he does.

I can see why that's a bit contradictory so I'll stop making jokes about his appearance and his false camera presence and just concentrate on listening to what he says.

Thanks for letting me know that I hadn't asked for him to be wiped out by a bus though. I appreciate that.

Hell we drew yesterday, it's not the end of the world, we've got 7 out of 9 under the new coach, FOOTBALL WISE things are going well, it's just this one little tiny boardroom thing that I can't let go yet.

Give me some time please, you had four and half years, I've not had four and half weeks yet.

The reason I PM'd was because I know how annoying it is to read through other peoples back and forth and has less and less to do with football as the posts go on. Not due to any personal issue.

To be fair the "splashed by a puddle" is funny and I apologised on the PM for mixing it up with something else and I'll apologise now for it. Having found it again and read it, it made me smile. I have no issue with people picking out peoples idiosyncrasies, I take issue with those who have people who cannot be abused but abuse others.

As I also said in the PM, my initial post wasn't aimed at you but you seemed to take issue with it that it was. Some of it probably applied to you but it was to a group as a whole. You took issue with it as some sort of personal attack.

I don't know anyone on here to go further than football chat. I'm sure if I met everyone on this forum in a pub for a chat we'd have a laugh and I have no animosity towards anyone on here.

I guess the only way for the board to win you over will be down to actions and what they do rather than what they say. So I guess time will tell on that.

[ariotofmyown]

Maybe only one or two on this thread but there's a few about.

You're right though maybe I am overreacting to it as it annoys me. It annoys me that he's painted as the devil incarnate by some due to this decision. I think there's a significant increase in hatred and picking his actions apart since he sacked Nigel.

You're right again. It's good that nobody is currently slagging off the new coaches. In fact a lot if people who liked Nigel say they aren't against the appointment. It's refreshing.

It's not a surprise that pro-Nigel posters are behind the current appointments as the pro-Nigel posters are rationsl enough to understand that whilst the way Clough was treated was a bit sick, that had nothing to do with the new management team and above all what they want is a successful Derby team.

Before Nigel left, ideally there would have been football related debates about how well Nigel had done and if it was time for a change.

These debates would usually get hijacked though by a few, very focal posters who made personnal attacks on Nigel and contributed nothing to the debate. Many posters defended Nigel and his record-there was nothing to suggest they would not back McClaren and co.

The extreme anti-Nigel posters are in a dilemma though. They need McClaren to be successful to prove they were right about Nige. But their default position is to bitch and moan and make personnal attacks. If it looks like we are gonna finish mid-table again after disappointing winter results, they'll revert to type again.

[WilkoRam]

It's not a surprise that pro-Nigel posters are behind the current appointments as the pro-Nigel posters are rationsl enough to understand that whilst the way Clough was treated was a bit sick, that had nothing to do with the new management team and above all what they want is a successful Derby team.

Before Nigel left, ideally there would have been football related debates about how well Nigel had done and if it was time for a change.

These debates would usually get hijacked though by a few, very focal posters who made personnal attacks on Nigel and contributed nothing to the debate. Many posters defended Nigel and his record-there was nothing to suggest they would not back McClaren and co.

The extreme anti-Nigel posters are in a dilemma though. They need McClaren to be successful to prove they were right about Nige. But their default position is to bitch and moan and make personnal attacks. If it looks like we are gonna finish mid-table again after disappointing winter results, they'll revert to type again.

There are people on either side of the Nigel fence that are rational. Likewise there are those either side of the fence who are more extreme. This is to be expected as I'm sure there is a cross section of society in this forum and therefore it will show the same extremes as in the rest of the world.

By that token I'm sure there are some pro-Nigel who wouldn't mind seeing McClaren fail or at least not take us any further so that it will further add to the 'Nigel was the best man'. Just as those who were against him will want McClaren to succeed even more so to prove they were right.

I think on both sides of the argument you'll find a hell of a lot of people who think Nigel did a good job, has left the club in a good state and thank him for stopping the ship from sinking and the way he implemented to youth system here.

The difference between the two camps in most cases is whether you felt he had reached his limit on how far he could take us and if some of his decisions were holding us back or not. Not a big difference but a key difference. Just a case of filtering out the extreme views I guess.

[Leicester Ram]

This forum 

[Scropton ram]

What about the gardeners?

[ariotofmyown]

There are people on either side of the Nigel fence that are rational. Likewise there are those either side of the fence who are more extreme. This is to be expected as I'm sure there is a cross section of society in this forum and therefore it will show the same extremes as in the rest of the world.

By that token I'm sure there are some pro-Nigel who wouldn't mind seeing McClaren fail or at least not take us any further so that it will further add to the 'Nigel was the best man'. Just as those who were against him will want McClaren to succeed even more so to prove they were right.

I think on both sides of the argument you'll find a hell of a lot of people who think Nigel did a good job, has left the club in a good state and thank him for stopping the ship from sinking and the way he implemented to youth system here.

The difference between the two camps in most cases is whether you felt he had reached his limit on how far he could take us and if some of his decisions were holding us back or not. Not a big difference but a key difference. Just a case of filtering out the extreme views I guess.

Nicely put. However, I think in this case, and in many other cases across society, the negative view is usually the one where you find the most extreme views and the most hate. The extreme view ends up dominating the debate when few people on that side hold that view.

For example, a debate on immigration in the uk end up been framed as neo-nazi view vs people who think immigration brings more benefits than negatives. The real discussion should be has immigration got more negatives than positives vs has immigration got more positives than negatives. That second debate sounds boring and won't sell papers so we are stuck with the first.

This forum fell into the same trap though. Maybe we get the media we deserve. Or maybe society isn't good at standing up to loud mouth bullies.