The show must go on

[ronnieronalde]

First and foremost I'd like to mention that I'm delighted and proud that there are still a few who have NEVER called for his head. Over the last couple of weeks it's been pretty tough knowing that even some of the staunch fans were waivering. Yesterday after the game I was really upset to see such a reaction, totally over the top with even posters that I respect coming out and saying he had to go.

 

The way we played

His interview

 

nothing wrong with either, yet the reactions were horrible and I won't forget that in a hurry.

 

I hope you're pleased today. You got what you've been pushing for.

 

On a personal level (not wanting to turn this thread into my personal issues) I'm actually really relieved he's gone, it will give me a massive portion of my life back knowing I can just watch football without getting emotionally involved with the ****** who are not fit to support any club, not just this club.

 

I don't like Tony Pulis, I don't have any connection to Gus Poyet or Steve Mclaren, or anyone else, Time for me to enjoy the game as a neutral, as a fan that can hammer anyone. I wonder what it's going to feel like when Notts_ram is defending the new guy and I want him gone. how will that roll?

 

I honestly and wholeheartedly still believe it's a mistake to be getting rid of him, the style in which it was done has sickened me and I'm prepared to take all the crap I'll get from those handful of fans who've been making my posting life hell for the last 4 and half years. I want to go on record and say that Sam Rush has manipulated people with his false Nigel has our full support rhetoric. I wrote a post defending them yesterday but this has shown them in a very poor light for me. It's cowardly to sack someone to cover up your own ineffiiciencies, unfortunately we're run by corporate suits and not by football people.

 

He was under pressure in the summer, once the fixture list came out it was clear we were in for a tough 10 game start

 

We're not a club surrounded by negativity, internally at least on the playing side we were still pretty positive, the players are playing for him, it's not like he's lost the dressing room as he could have been accused of while Bywater and the rest of the scavengers were still around.

 

Derby fans won't care a jot about this but Ronnie Fenton, Brian's assistant died in the week and the club and staff were showing their respect to him at Forest, some respect. To fire him on the way home from a game against them, a game against him is a disgrace, especially cos we didn't play badly.

 

I think there has been a massive under estimation of the shape we're in, I think there's been a period since the summer where they've been looking for a reason to get him out. I spoke to someone from within the club in the summer, following on from DaveyB and BNC's thread saying NIgel would be gone in the summer. I'm sorry to say it was a possibility then and the staff weren't sure whether the money men backed them.

 

"We might get one more chance" was the reply I got. "They don't care that the budget doesn't have us competing, they want us competing."

 

It's been coming, it's been planned, probably since Rush arrived.

 

I wonder now how much of a unit the backroom staff are, how deep this will go, Garner, Crosby, Sullivan, Clough, I can see them all leaving. Metgod, Wassall, Lyons, Glover, I'm not sure about but the truth is this. If they have loyalty to Nigel, like they should have, then they should walk as well.

 

His dad used to say, either you're loyal or you're not loyal, there is no middle ground.

 

Clough was loyal to Derby, he was loyal to his staff and to his players. I'm very keen to see how that loyalty is reciprocated over the coming weeks.

 

I'd honestly prefer now not to see the same posters who have already made 150 posts saying it's the right decision. I haven't written this post for you, I haven't written this post to do anything other than say I THINK YOUV'VE ****** IT UP BIG TIME FORCING OUT SOMEONE WHO CARED MORE ABOUT THE CLUB THAN ALL OF THE OWNERS PUT TOGETHER.

 

I didn't care that you wanted him gone four years ago and I don't care what you think now. 

 

If you're notts or gcdcfc and you get the urge to hit reply, please don't, honestly, at least have some respect for those who are not ecstatic at this move.

 

I'd prefer to see the thread empty or removed totally than to have to argue again. There are no more needs for rows, you got what you wanted he's gone and Derby will be great again from Tuesday onwards.

 

I'm sorry but I REALLY hope there is no-one left from the current regime to take caretaker charge.

 

Loyalty, it's a massive quality to have. You've either got it or you haven't there is no middle ground.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ambitious]

You are in no doubts of my response.

Good post.

[WoollyJumper]

Nonsense he wasn't loyal to all his players

 

Source please.

[DenbyRam]

Jesus, anyone would think that Clough had just won the treble.

 

It's a results business. He failed, and it is time for a new approach.

 

We all desperately wanted him to be a success because of his name, and that was the crux of the problem. No other club would recruit a manager from non league and be happy with nothing more than 10th place after almost five years.   

[RamNut]

I think ronnie's post is pretty good......

Whilst nigel made mistakes - including some howlers - to sack him 9 games into the season in which there has been good and bad is baffling.

What the manager needed was support and further investment in jan.

What he got was treachery and a knife in the back.

To sack him after playing forest is disgusting.

To talk up the expectations with all that rubbish about top 6 whilst not making major signings is incompetent.

I am pretty disgusted tbh and i can hardly be accused of being a blind faither.

[AndyinLiverpool]

The idea the Clough was loyal to his players is nonsense. Players were sidelined, chucked on the scrap heap and publicly vilified.

[Alph]

Jesus, anyone would think that Clough had just won the treble.

It's a results business. He failed, and it is time for a new approach.

We all desperately wanted him to be a success because of his name, and that was the crux of the problem. No other club would recruit a manager from non league and be happy with nothing more than 10th place after almost five years.

Don't forget at first his job was to overhaul the entire squad and drastically reduce the wage bill.

I wouldn't hope for any more than what he achieved during that times.

The past couple of seasons have been a bit slow.

The Green/Bueno/Cywka/Bailey/Commons/Kuqi season he could have performed better imo. He let the football deteriorate and his changes didnt work.

He's done that a couple of times where we switch to 442 survival mode after looking like we've made progress.

But in the beginning I thought he did very well. I'd have forgiven relegation such was the piss poor squad full of money men. He has left us better than when he came imo.

I'd rather have this squad than the one he picked up. So in a way he's been a success. At the same time he's been his own enemy.

[Gritstone Ram]

Nice one Ronnie.

[Duracell]

Whatever you think of the decision, I'm surprised people are slating the board quite so much. Yes, you could cite a lack of loyalty but once of twice Nigel has got things wrong and the fans turned on the board - but they didn't bottle it then, and they stuck with it.

 

I'm talking about the Kuqi season Alpha alludes to in particular. Do people forget just how crap we became after starting so well? Deep down, I never really forgave him for that. Money or no money, there's no excuse for turning from one of the best teams in the league to one that couldn't even beat non-League Crawley. Almost any other manager in the country could - maybe even would - have been sacked for that.

 

They stuck with him through that and he put a lot of things right following that, and we haven't seen quite the same sort of dip since. And it was the right decision. He remained the best man for the job at the time.

 

But for a man appointed for stability, our peaks and troughs were too spectacular. Nothing November became a tradition. Despite this season, Clough's away record remains woeful. And just as we sorted that out, we were utterly clueless at home and looked like a side playing out of its depth. And you could argue our turnover of players was high, although I myself think it was necessary to build the kind of squad we have now to be fair.

 

 

He's left a great legacy. A great bunch of lads who, whatever people might say, wear the shirt with pride and give their best. The link between first team, U21 side and Academy is a real asset. The dressing room seems to have a lot of harmony to it. As Rosenior said - you look at the job as an unemployed manager and you rub your hands in glee.

 

The problems that remain aren't difficult to fix. This is a much easier job than the one Clough took over. The thing was for me, though, is that I don't think Clough was the right man to fix those remaining issues.

[blackNwhites]

I'm pretty sure when he came in he said he had a 10 year plan. I don't know exactly what that plan was, but he got half way through having reduced the wage bill, bringing in youth and totally refurbishing the youth setup.

 

He got a squad of players that wanted to play for him and to play for each other. Just a shame he wasn't backed more from the investors or whoever needed to have his back on the investment side.

 

Massive stab in the back from the owners or whatever we're ran by, feel they never supported him.

 

Bit weird really, at least we knew what we had when he was in charge and I was prepared to be patient and support his outlook. Patient, slow build up of DCFC.

 

Now we don't know anything, who's coming in, what's gonna happen with the youth setup, what players will leave etc..

 

Hate that about football.

[smiffy]

I'm pretty sure when he came in he said he had a 10 year plan. I don't know exactly what that plan was, but he got half way through having reduced the wage bill, bringing in youth and totally refurbishing the youth setup.

 

He got a squad of players that wanted to play for him and to play for each other. Just a shame he wasn't backed more from the investors or whoever needed to have his back on the investment side.

 

Massive stab in the back from the owners or whatever we're ran by, feel they never supported him.

 

Bit weird really, at least we knew what we had when he was in charge and I was prepared to be patient and support his outlook. Patient, slow build up of DCFC.

 

Now we don't know anything, who's coming in, what's gonna happen with the youth setup, what players will leave etc..

 

Hate that about football.

We are no worse of than any other supporters that have their manager bumped, get over it

[YoungUttoxRam]

Whichever way you look at it, it was play offs with Nigel this season or he was gone anyway in my view. He's started the season far too Jekyll and Hyde with how we've played/picked up points. I am surprised at the timing of the sacking more than anything, not the actual sacking. I appreciate what he did for the club and the foundations he's laid down for some body to come straight in to a steady job. Good luck to whoever (except for Tony Pulis) and all the best for Nigel.

[G STAR RAM]

First and foremost I'd like to mention that I'm delighted and proud that there are still a few who have NEVER called for his head. Over the last couple of weeks it's been pretty tough knowing that even some of the staunch fans were waivering. Yesterday after the game I was really upset to see such a reaction, totally over the top with even posters that I respect coming out and saying he had to go.

The way we played

His interview

nothing wrong with either, yet the reactions were horrible and I won't forget that in a hurry.

I hope you're pleased today. You got what you've been pushing for.

On a personal level (not wanting to turn this thread into my personal issues) I'm actually really relieved he's gone, it will give me a massive portion of my life back knowing I can just watch football without getting emotionally involved with the ****** who are not fit to support any club, not just this club.

I don't like Tony Pulis, I don't have any connection to Gus Poyet or Steve Mclaren, or anyone else, Time for me to enjoy the game as a neutral, as a fan that can hammer anyone. I wonder what it's going to feel like when Notts_ram is defending the new guy and I want him gone. how will that roll?

I honestly and wholeheartedly still believe it's a mistake to be getting rid of him, the style in which it was done has sickened me and I'm prepared to take all the crap I'll get from those handful of fans who've been making my posting life hell for the last 4 and half years. I want to go on record and say that Sam Rush has manipulated people with his false Nigel has our full support rhetoric. I wrote a post defending them yesterday but this has shown them in a very poor light for me. It's cowardly to sack someone to cover up your own ineffiiciencies, unfortunately we're run by corporate suits and not by football people.

He was under pressure in the summer, once the fixture list came out it was clear we were in for a tough 10 game start

We're not a club surrounded by negativity, internally at least on the playing side we were still pretty positive, the players are playing for him, it's not like he's lost the dressing room as he could have been accused of while Bywater and the rest of the scavengers were still around.

Derby fans won't care a jot about this but Ronnie Fenton, Brian's assistant died in the week and the club and staff were showing their respect to him at Forest, some respect. To fire him on the way home from a game against them, a game against him is a disgrace, especially cos we didn't play badly.

I think there has been a massive under estimation of the shape we're in, I think there's been a period since the summer where they've been looking for a reason to get him out. I spoke to someone from within the club in the summer, following on from DaveyB and BNC's thread saying NIgel would be gone in the summer. I'm sorry to say it was a possibility then and the staff weren't sure whether the money men backed them.

"We might get one more chance" was the reply I got. "They don't care that the budget doesn't have us competing, they want us competing."

It's been coming, it's been planned, probably since Rush arrived.

I wonder now how much of a unit the backroom staff are, how deep this will go, Garner, Crosby, Sullivan, Clough, I can see them all leaving. Metgod, Wassall, Lyons, Glover, I'm not sure about but the truth is this. If they have loyalty to Nigel, like they should have, then they should walk as well.

His dad used to say, either you're loyal or you're not loyal, there is no middle ground.

Clough was loyal to Derby, he was loyal to his staff and to his players. I'm very keen to see how that loyalty is reciprocated over the coming weeks.

I'd honestly prefer now not to see the same posters who have already made 150 posts saying it's the right decision. I haven't written this post for you, I haven't written this post to do anything other than say I THINK YOUV'VE ****** IT UP BIG TIME FORCING OUT SOMEONE WHO CARED MORE ABOUT THE CLUB THAN ALL OF THE OWNERS PUT TOGETHER.

I didn't care that you wanted him gone four years ago and I don't care what you think now.

If you're notts or gcdcfc and you get the urge to hit reply, please don't, honestly, at least have some respect for those who are not ecstatic at this move.

I'd prefer to see the thread empty or removed totally than to have to argue again. There are no more needs for rows, you got what you wanted he's gone and Derby will be great again from Tuesday onwards.

I'm sorry but I REALLY hope there is no-one left from the current regime to take caretaker charge.

Loyalty, it's a massive quality to have. You've either got it or you haven't there is no middle ground.

I may be wrong but didn't Clough want the academy ring-fenced to avoid any upheaval if he was dismissed?

[samtheram83]

I actually got that sick feeling when I got the text. Gutted! Good post Ronnie. Clough definitely made his mistakes but overall we are much better now than when he started so his tenure can only be a success in my eyes.

His loyalty to the club never seemed to waver and that showed in his teams. Whole hearted commitment. Nothing less. Which is what I've loved about the rams teams recently. That and some of the football played has been outstanding. He wanted derby county to be known for hard work, honesty and good football. Didnt always work on the football side mind.

The way he has set up the academy to be a clear link to the 1st team, trying to play proper football and giving kids a chance has continually excited me. It's great seeing home grown talent in the side and Hendrick and Hughes are arguably our best midfielders.

What now? The board say they want someone to take us to the next step. Like improvement and progress are guaranteed. Tony pulis? How will he make us better? I can't see our players fitting his plans or the group of young talented ball players the academy has been trying to produce getting a look in.

For me this could affect the foundations of the club more than the board realize and I firmly believe it's a mistake.

[samtheram83]

I may be wrong but didn't Clough want the academy ring-fenced to avoid any upheaval if he was dismissed?

I believe they are on separate contracts so the academy can continue. I think ronnie was getting more at loyalty and they might walk as a sign of solidarity to Clough.

[notts_ram]

 

 

If you're notts or gcdcfc and you get the urge to hit reply, please don't, honestly, at least have some respect for those who are not ecstatic at this move.

 

 

The guys lost his job, I take no pleasure in that. The board have seen it as a business decision and acted accordingly, I think the danger is to mix business with sentiment and you cant when it comes to decisions like this. Am not going to debate whether Clough cared passionately about the club, was 100% DCFC etc. if your boss thinks you're not hacking it then loyalty counts for very little. It's a tough world but I genuinely wish Clough 100% in his future career, takes time out to reflect on what he could have done differently here and builds on his experiences here and am sure will become a better manager.

[RodleyRam]

Good post Ronnie.

I think it's a decision that is going to bite them in the bum. Why let Clough have a full pre-season, make his signings and seemingly continue with the grand plan only to get rid after a few defeats? We certainly weren't struggling or going to struggle and i think nigel earnt the right to try and put things right.

Not only do i think it's the wrong decision, i think the manner and the timing leave a very bad taste in the mouth.

Whoever replaces Clough inherits a club with all the potential to succeed and for that Clough has my gratitude.

[ronnieronalde]

I may be wrong but didn't Clough want the academy ring-fenced to avoid any upheaval if he was dismissed?

 

I've thought about it a bit today.

 

I'd imagine Wass's first reaction would be to walk, he knows it was Nigel who brought him to the club, they have known each other since they were teenagers and Nigel has always trusted Wass.

 

Now I think the best part of Nigel will come out, his diplomatic side. I think he'll persuade Wass that his comittment is tothe kids at all age groups. Some of those kids will have signed under the understanding that they would receive long term stable coaching from Wass and his team.

 

Only last week Wass was talking of the club funding a category one push, there is no way he can walk out at this stage.

 

The sptieful part of me hopes Wass and Pat Lyons leave in an act of solidarity with the man who supported them for so long.

 

The sensible part hopes he stays and finishes the job of building the best academy he can for the club.

 

I don't mind which part wins.

[ilkleyram]

Ronnie, good original post mate.

Regarding this last one though, I do mind. The academy, whoever is in overall charge after next week, is the future of this club and we have by all accounts, some exceptional talent going through it. If we lose that then we become even more like everyone else.

On tonight's evidence Wassall is staying for the time being. If McLaren, or whoever, has half an ounce of common sense then they will continue with that part of Nigel's legacy and build it.

Trouble is that common sense doesn't always go hand in hand with decisions by CEOs and Boards.

[Woodys woman]

The idea the Clough was loyal to his players is nonsense. Players were sidelined, chucked on the scrap heap and publicly vilified.

And probably rightly so in most cases