bourneyesterday Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 The season is now over and its not even feb. I have said this for the last 4 seasons now and its just around the corner again, if you want more of this then renew your ST and if you want to see the back of the pointless speculators then boycott the games. Before anyone says it won't make any difference remember that they cover the revolving debt with ST money every year so no ST money will mean they have to put their hands in those tight pants to cover it. By the way if its just the die hards who are loyal to the end how come its so F...ing souless at PP these days................come on lets be avin you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 The season is now over and its not even feb. I have said this for the last 4 seasons now and its just around the corner again, if you want more of this then renew your ST and if you want to see the back of the pointless speculators then boycott the games. Before anyone says it won't make any difference remember that they cover the revolving debt with ST money every year so no ST money will mean they have to put their hands in those tight pants to cover it. By the way if its just the die hards who are loyal to the end how come its so F...ing souless at PP these days................come on lets be avin you They have already 'put their hands in those tight pants' and paid off the revolving loan. Do you really think starving the club of money is going to help us become a better club? My guess is it will just mean less money available for buying players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midtableforever Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 I'm sorry mcsilks I just don't buy it.. Neither your comments or Nigel Cloughs... I thought it was pathetic that after losing to Blackburn at home he immediately brings up the financial differences.. As Cumbrianram says, we're not competing with the likes of Man City, Chelsea and Man Utd.. We're competing with Middlesbrough, Hull, Millwall, Watford, Burnley and Palace.. These teams haven't spent megabucks and these teams are all vulnerable and easily replacable.. Clough has been given a fair crack.. He's had over 4 years, how much fairer can you get.. So many clubs that dropped into the lower half of the NPC have sacked their manager as a result.. Whislt NC has been given the green light all along.. I look back to 2004/05 season.. We just got knocked out of the FA Cup by Fulham in extra time.. That Fulham squad consisted of multi million pound players such as Van Der Saar, Radzinski, Diop, Legwinski, Boa Morte, Andy Cole, Collins John, Claus Jensen etc.. That Fulham team were midtable in the PL, whilst our sqaud was built on youth and frees such as Idiakez, Bisgaard, Junior, Rasiak.. Did George Burley come out after the game and say 'The only reason why we lost is because Fulham can spend X amount on a midfielder whilst we had to play youths like Pablo Mills, Lee Camp and Marcus Tudgay.. No he didn't.. And did we have a multiple threads afterwards discussing the wages and expenditure of the two clubs.. No, we didn't.. In GBs season he was competing against WHU, Sunderland, Wigan, Ipswich, Leeds, Wolves.. Teams who had spent big bucks whilst we were signing frees and using the youth.. Why weren't we complaining about the financial differences back then? Was it because we were doing well and finished 4th and actually gave a PL team a fright? Afterall we lost in extra time in the replay.. The financial topic is only ever brought up to protect Clough because in reality he isn't doing that well.. It was never mentioned before, so why now? And once again, no other fecker mentions it.. Only Pulis when he sarcastically said the difference between Stoke and Man City is about $300mill... But even Stoke have taken points off the big teams whilst we feel defeats against Leicester, Blackburn and Bolton are perfectly acceptable due to their lavish expenditure on mediocre players.. I couldn't give two sheets how much Blackburn have spent on Rhodes, Kazam and Murphy.. They can't be that good oif they're only 15th in a very average league Good post, Bris. But i'm sure you won't get a sane replay on it if any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 I'm sorry mcsilks I just don't buy it.. Neither your comments or Nigel Cloughs... I thought it was pathetic that after losing to Blackburn at home he immediately brings up the financial differences.. As Cumbrianram says, we're not competing with the likes of Man City, Chelsea and Man Utd.. We're competing with Middlesbrough, Hull, Millwall, Watford, Burnley and Palace.. These teams haven't spent megabucks and these teams are all vulnerable and easily replacable.. Clough has been given a fair crack.. He's had over 4 years, how much fairer can you get.. So many clubs that dropped into the lower half of the NPC have sacked their manager as a result.. Whislt NC has been given the green light all along.. I look back to 2004/05 season.. We just got knocked out of the FA Cup by Fulham in extra time.. That Fulham squad consisted of multi million pound players such as Van Der Saar, Radzinski, Diop, Legwinski, Boa Morte, Andy Cole, Collins John, Claus Jensen etc.. That Fulham team were midtable in the PL, whilst our sqaud was built on youth and frees such as Idiakez, Bisgaard, Junior, Rasiak.. Did George Burley come out after the game and say 'The only reason why we lost is because Fulham can spend X amount on a midfielder whilst we had to play youths like Pablo Mills, Lee Camp and Marcus Tudgay.. No he didn't.. And did we have a multiple threads afterwards discussing the wages and expenditure of the two clubs.. No, we didn't.. In GBs season he was competing against WHU, Sunderland, Wigan, Ipswich, Leeds, Wolves.. Teams who had spent big bucks whilst we were signing frees and using the youth.. Why weren't we complaining about the financial differences back then? Was it because we were doing well and finished 4th and actually gave a PL team a fright? Afterall we lost in extra time in the replay.. The financial topic is only ever brought up to protect Clough because in reality he isn't doing that well.. It was never mentioned before, so why now? And once again, no other fecker mentions it.. Only Pulis when he sarcastically said the difference between Stoke and Man City is about $300mill... But even Stoke have taken points off the big teams whilst we feel defeats against Leicester, Blackburn and Bolton are perfectly acceptable due to their lavish expenditure on mediocre players.. I couldn't give two sheets how much Blackburn have spent on Rhodes, Kazam and Murphy.. They can't be that good oif they're only 15th in a very average league You say we are not competing with Manure, City and Chelsea financially, yet relatively its very similar. Man U, Man C & Chelsea all have wage bills around or above £120m WBA, Norwich and the like are more like £50m. Leicester, Cardiff, maybe Forest are in the £25m+ bracket while Derby are £8m. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsilks Posted January 28, 2013 Author Share Posted January 28, 2013 You say we are not competing with Manure, City and Chelsea financially, yet relatively its very similar. Man U, Man C & Chelsea all have wage bills around or above £120m WBA, Norwich and the like are more like £50m. Leicester, Cardiff, maybe Forest are in the £25m+ bracket while Derby are £8m. Agreed. WBA and Norwich cannot compete with the bigger clubs in their league and we can't in our league. There is no difference whatsoever. All teams can have one off games where they give the bigger club a beating. That's football. Clough was exactly right in talking about Blackburns financial differences after the game. If Clough were given the same amount of cash the Blackburn board has throw around, I'm confident we would be playing in a higher division than the one we're in now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gritstone Ram Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 If anyone wants cheering up. I work with about 4 florest fans and they are deffinatly not over the moon today. So the grass isn't always greener. In fact after listening to the pony they come out with on a monday morning it cheers me up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pearl Ram Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Agreed. WBA and Norwich cannot compete with the bigger clubs in their league and we can't in our league. There is no difference whatsoever. All teams can have one off games where they give the bigger club a beating. That's football. Clough was exactly right in talking about Blackburns financial differences after the game. If Clough were given the same amount of cash the Blackburn board has throw around, I'm confident we would be playing in a higher division than the one we're in now. This is my worry though mcsilks, his stubborness and apparent failure to learn from results where he's tried a particular formation without success makes me wonder if he had money thrown at him he'd fair any better. I want us to progress with Nigel at the reigns but lately I'm beginning to wonder if he's run his course, I hope I'm wrong on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CumbrianRam Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 You say we are not competing with Manure, City and Chelsea financially, yet relatively its very similar. Man U, Man C & Chelsea all have wage bills around or above £120m WBA, Norwich and the like are more like £50m. Leicester, Cardiff, maybe Forest are in the £25m+ bracket while Derby are £8m. Man Utd have players like Rooney, van Persie, Vidic Man City have players like Kompany, Tevez, Aguero, Yaya Toure Chelsea have players like Mata, Hazard, Lampard, Cech On the other hand Leicester best players are: Wood (West Brom reserve), King (academy player), Marshall (Stoke City reserve, never played a game) Cardiff: Bellamy (fair enough), Whittingham (been there since 07 £350,000 from Villa), Hudson (mainly played at Champioship level) Forest: Sharp (on loan from Soton), Guedioura (out of favour at Wolves), Cox (£2 m from WBA) and us: Hughes (academy player), Ward (out of favour at Sheff U), Brayford (signed from Crewe) Yes, the Championship player at the clubs above maybe of a higher wage/transfer fee, but the quality of player between a Cardiff and Derby is much closer than WBA and Man Utd. Heck Pboro won at Cardiff a month ago and Barnsley played Leeds off the park! Also, I'd say Wolves, Bolton and Bburn have the highest wage budgets and look where they are, football is played on grass not a balance sheet! Don't remember Ronnie Moore, Ian Barraclough, Dean Saunders ever monaing about finances when they lost to us over the past couple of seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 We havent improved, that's just a myth where fans see us play well for a few games each year and think it's happened. We've stayed at the same level of ability whilst buying cheaper players to do so, that's about it. worst post ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Man Utd have players like Rooney, van Persie, Vidic Man City have players like Kompany, Tevez, Aguero, Yaya Toure Chelsea have players like Mata, Hazard, Lampard, Cech On the other hand Leicester best players are: Wood (West Brom reserve), King (academy player), Marshall (Stoke City reserve, never played a game) Cardiff: Bellamy (fair enough), Whittingham (been there since 07 £350,000 from Villa), Hudson (mainly played at Champioship level) Forest: Sharp (on loan from Soton), Guedioura (out of favour at Wolves), Cox (£2 m from WBA) and us: Hughes (academy player), Ward (out of favour at Sheff U), Brayford (signed from Crewe) Yes, the Championship player at the clubs above maybe of a higher wage/transfer fee, but the quality of player between a Cardiff and Derby is much closer than WBA and Man Utd. Heck Pboro won at Cardiff a month ago and Barnsley played Leeds off the park! Also, I'd say Wolves, Bolton and Bburn have the highest wage budgets and look where they are, football is played on grass not a balance sheet! Don't remember Ronnie Moore, Ian Barraclough, Dean Saunders ever monaing about finances when the lost to us over the past couple of seasons. I understand what you're saying, i was just pointing out that resource difference is all relative and generally, the richest teams will come out on top - there's always exceptions and surprises as this week's cup results have shown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CumbrianRam Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 I understand what you're saying, i was just pointing out that resource difference is all relative and generally, the richest teams will come out on top - there's always exceptions and surprises as this week's cup results have shown. Say that the richer team at Championship tends to have a mixture of Prem cast-offs, the odd academy players and young/experienced players from this league and they are easily beatable unlike Man Utd or Man City away for a midtable Prem team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Say that the richer team at Championship tends to have a mixture of Prem cast-offs, the odd academy players and young/experienced players from this league and they are easily beatable unlike Man Utd or Man City away for a midtable Prem team. Yeah, there comes a point where the excessive amount of money places the likes of those two streets ahead of virtually any challenger. I suppose its why nearly every league in europe is rarely fought between more than 3 or 4 clubs. The champions league cash on top of everything else sees to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastKentRam Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 worst post ever I'll give you another one you might not like, here you go Cloughs finishing positions at Derby - 2009/2010 - 14th. 2010/2011 - 19th. 2011/2012 - 12th, 2012/Now - 13th That's the improvement Clough has installed into this club, we started as mid table crap under him and here we are now, still mid table crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bourneyesterday Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 They have already 'put their hands in those tight pants' and paid off the revolving loan. Do you really think starving the club of money is going to help us become a better club? My guess is it will just mean less money available for buying players. They have not paid off the revolving loan, thats why its called a revolving loan. It gets paid down every year out of ST renewal monies and then they borrow against it again to cover operating costs. Then come ST renewal time they have to repeat the process again. In answer to your question G-Star that exactly what i think, starve the owners of customer money and they will either improve the product to attract more customers or weaken the product further and look to sell on the business for the best deal possible for themselves. What they won't do is hang on for ever while the costs go up and the income goes down. There is no guarantee that we will get better owners next time but i for one am willing to take the chance because the alternative is death by apathy. After 4 years of clough and the Rush admitting that FFP is dead in the water is there anyone left who seriously expects this flawed project to succeed ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Agreed. WBA and Norwich cannot compete with the bigger clubs in their league and we can't in our league. There is no difference whatsoever. All teams can have one off games where they give the bigger club a beating. That's football. Clough was exactly right in talking about Blackburns financial differences after the game. If Clough were given the same amount of cash the Blackburn board has throw around, I'm confident we would be playing in a higher division than the one we're in now. Are you fewckin serious? Leicester finished something like 4 points above us last season.. I didn't see Chelsea only finishing 4 points above Norwich.. The gap between the top in the PL and midtable is huge.. In the NPC it isn't.. Hence about 40 different clubs being promoted over the past 20 years or so.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsilks Posted January 28, 2013 Author Share Posted January 28, 2013 I'll give you another one you might not like, here you go Cloughs finishing positions at Derby - 2009/2010 - 14th. 2010/2011 - 19th. 2011/2012 - 12th, 2012/Now - 13th That's the improvement Clough has installed into this club, we started as mid table crap under him and here we are now, still mid table crap. Such a shame you fail to look at the bigger picture. The improvement in the club is sustainable. Far more important than league position. How much has he shaved off the wage bill? To keep the status quo with the league position is, my opinion a degree of success. That is how I see it and thankfully, that is how the owners see it. The board members have all become wealthy and successful people by knowing what they are doing in business and employing the right people. Thankfully, they appear to have faith in Clough and not some rather short sighted fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastKentRam Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Such a shame you fail to look at the bigger picture. The improvement in the club is sustainable. Far more important than league position. How much has he shaved off the wage bill? To keep the status quo with the league position is, my opinion a degree of success. That is how I see it and thankfully, that is how the owners see it. The board members have all become wealthy and successful people by knowing what they are doing in business and employing the right people. Thankfully, they appear to have faith in Clough and not some rather short sighted fans. If we're still in the same position in say 2/3 years, then what do you say? How long do you give him before enough is enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsilks Posted January 28, 2013 Author Share Posted January 28, 2013 Are you fewckin serious? Leicester finished something like 4 points above us last season.. I didn't see Chelsea only finishing 4 points above Norwich.. The gap between the top in the PL and midtable is huge.. In the NPC it isn't.. Hence about 40 different clubs being promoted over the past 20 years or so.. You have said yourself before that the Premiership is split into tiers. These tiers are formed by hard cash. How much they can afford to pay their players. It's the same in the Championship. Are you seriously trying to suggest that DCFC can compete with clubs who can fork out close to 10M a season on new players? Really Bris. You don't understand this modern game of ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsilks Posted January 28, 2013 Author Share Posted January 28, 2013 If we're still in the same position in say 2/3 years, then what do you say? How long do you give him before enough is enough? We will be in the same position in 2~3 years and 4~5 years in all probability. What would you like Clough to do. Wave a magic wand and suddenly magic some quality players into the club? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asanovic Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 If we're still in the same position in say 2/3 years, then what do you say? How long do you give him before enough is enough? New manager + same level of investment on the playing staff = not much difference to where we are now. We need money mate. Not a new person to come in with none of it to spend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.