CumbrianRam Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 You have said yourself before that the Premiership is split into tiers. These tiers are formed by hard cash. How much they can afford to pay their players. It's the same in the Championship. Are you seriously trying to suggest that DCFC can compete with clubs who can fork out close to 10M a season on new players? Really Bris. You don't understand this modern game of ours. If that was true the table would look something like this 1. Bolton 2. Wolves 3. Blackburn 4. Forest 5. Leicester 6. Cardiff 7. Birmingham (still have King, Zigic etc) 8. Hull 9. Ipswich 10. Leeds 11. Brighton 12. Derby 13. Bristol City 14. Watford 15. Boro 16. Burnley 17. Palace 18. Sheff W 19. Blackpool 20. Millwall 21. Huddersfield 22. Charlton 23. Barnsley 24. Pboro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOB BIGGS Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 New manager + same level of investment on the playing staff = not much difference to where we are now. We need money mate. Not a new person to come in with none of it to spend. I like posts that have a touch of reality 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> This one sums it up for me, nice and brief too. PS - I wonder whether Udinese would loan us 10 players for the rest of the season? Seems fair..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsilks Posted January 28, 2013 Author Share Posted January 28, 2013 If that was true the table would look something like this 1. Bolton 2. Wolves 3. Blackburn 4. Forest 5. Leicester 6. Cardiff 7. Birmingham (still have King, Zigic etc) 8. Hull 9. Ipswich 10. Leeds 11. Brighton 12. Derby 13. Bristol City 14. Watford 15. Boro 16. Burnley 17. Palace 18. Sheff W 19. Blackpool 20. Millwall 21. Huddersfield 22. Charlton 23. Barnsley 24. Pboro Yes, I'd agree with that. Don't think that'll be far off come the end of the season. Thanks for re-enforcing my point. You might want to stick Leicester at the top though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastKentRam Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 New manager + same level of investment = not much difference to where we are now. We need money mate. Not a new person to come in with none of it to spend. So every half decent football team has had heavy investment? I could name you countless examples where teams succeed without pumping in millions, Palace are 6th, there you go there's one. Enough people in this thread have explained this point. The bottom line is, that nobody knows what would happen if Clough went, it's all speculation. People like you and Mcsilks refuse to accept that it's possible somebody out there might be able to do a better job. I'd rather he go and see what happens, if we got relegated under a new manager then so be it, i'd take that risk in the hope of us challenging for promotion, under Clough we've been doing the same thing for 4 years and there's no hope of promotion. Football is suppose to be entertaining, where we are at the moment isnt entertaining. It's draining my excitement for the club as a whole, i used to travel all over the place to watch us, now i'll rarely venture past London. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsilks Posted January 28, 2013 Author Share Posted January 28, 2013 So every half decent football team has had heavy investment? I could name you countless examples where teams succeed without pumping in millions, Palace are 6th, there you go there's one. Enough people in this thread have explained this point. The bottom line is, that nobody knows what would happen if Clough went, it's all speculation. People like you and Mcsilks refuse to accept that it's possible somebody out there might be able to do a better job. I'd rather he go and see what happens, if we got relegated under a new manager then so be it, i'd take that risk in the hope of us challenging for promotion, under Clough we've been doing the same thing for 4 years and there's no hope of promotion. Football is suppose to be entertaining, where we are at the moment isnt entertaining. It's draining my excitement for the club as a whole, i used to travel all over the place to watch us, now i'll rarely venture past London. I have never said that another manager won't do any better. Maybe they would but given what Clough has had to work with and his financial constraints, I think he's done a good job and certainly nothing that would put his position under any threat. Am surprised that the football we're playing is draining your excitement. We have a young squad that play a lot of attractive passing football. The Championship on the whole is devoid of quality and I struggle to think of any teams that concistently play a lot more attractive football than we do.......certainly of the clubs that are playing with a similar wage bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asanovic Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 So every half decent football team has had heavy investment? I could name you countless examples where teams succeed without pumping in millions, Palace are 6th, there you go there's one. Enough people in this thread have explained this point. The bottom line is, that nobody knows what would happen if Clough went, it's all speculation. People like you and Mcsilks refuse to accept that it's possible somebody out there might be able to do a better job. I'd rather he go and see what happens, if we got relegated under a new manager then so be it, i'd take that risk in the hope of us challenging for promotion, under Clough we've been doing the same thing for 4 years and there's no hope of promotion. Football is suppose to be entertaining, where we are at the moment isnt entertaining. It's draining my excitement for the club as a whole, i used to travel all over the place to watch us, now i'll rarely venture past London. You clearly don't read many of my posts. I get wound up with subs, tactics, decisions - he drives me bonkers sometimes - I don't refuse to accept there's no one better out there. Just no one better that will take on this job. Palace are sixth, but I'd bet my bottom dollar that Delaney, Dikgacoi, Speroni, Murray, Ramage and Bolasi are on more than nearly every single one of our players. That's the nucleus of their team. Unless you're a world class motivator of men that have people punching well, well above their weight, you won't turn this current crop into promotion contenders without a few tweaks, which hopefully we'll see in the Summer. I really doubt you'd be on this forum after being relegated saying 'so be it, least it wasn't mid table mediocrity'. However bad you think it is on the pitch now, it'd be 10 times worse with absolutely no money to spend whatsoever, which is the reality of dropping out of this league. The absolute bottom line is, if you replace Clough to manage this situation you're likely to end up not progressing much further over the next 4 years. Not because I think he's great, but because I think the job is a **** one. Someone needs money to spend on the team, why shouldn't it be Clough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastKentRam Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 I have never said that another manager won't do any better. Maybe they would but given what Clough has had to work with and his financial constraints, I think he's done a good job and certainly nothing that would put his position under any threat. Am surprised that the football we're playing is draining your excitement. We have a young squad that play a lot of attractive passing football. The Championship on the whole is devoid of quality and I struggle to think of any teams that concistently play a lot more attractive football than we do.......certainly of the clubs that are playing with a similar wage bill. We dont play attractive football away from home, we're the lowest goal scorers in the entire division, what's attractive about that? So you can discount the attractive football argument for half of our games this season. At the start of the season i was impressed, away at Wolves was one of the best away performances i've seen in a very long time. That form doesnt look quite as good now considering how **** Wolves have been. Alpha summed it up though in a post he made after the Brighton game, it's all horizontal lines, we're so rigid at times. Flat lines with nobody looking for space in between. It appears pretty when we keep possession for a while, but in reality there's little imagination or creativity and it's quite boring/predictable to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asanovic Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 So every half decent football team has had heavy investment? I could name you countless examples where teams succeed without pumping in millions, Palace are 6th, there you go there's one. Enough people in this thread have explained this point. The bottom line is, that nobody knows what would happen if Clough went, it's all speculation. People like you and Mcsilks refuse to accept that it's possible somebody out there might be able to do a better job. I'd rather he go and see what happens, if we got relegated under a new manager then so be it, i'd take that risk in the hope of us challenging for promotion, under Clough we've been doing the same thing for 4 years and there's no hope of promotion. Football is suppose to be entertaining, where we are at the moment isnt entertaining. It's draining my excitement for the club as a whole, i used to travel all over the place to watch us, now i'll rarely venture past London. PS if you ever do venture out of London, get the beers in. We could have this debate on the train. 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Yes, I'd agree with that. Don't think that'll be far off come the end of the season. Thanks for re-enforcing my point. You might want to stick Leicester at the top though. So are you saying that based upon the financial power we have, we should be 12th ? Is so then how can Clough be doing a good job ? We are 13th which taking that you agree he should be finishing 12th, would say that at best he is doing an average job ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich3478 Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Comparing financial conditions was pathetic in my eyes Saturday. Should we accept defeat against anyone with a bigger budget than ours? This was against Blackburn who lost at home to charlton the Saturday before. Charlton are the worst side I've seen us play this season over two games. We were *****, just say its not good enough. Forest wasn't either. Our progress is that slow under Clough that six months good work can seemingly unravel in a month. I like things about him, others I don't. His substitutions are pathetic for me, seems to be a stubbornness to admit he may have something wrong. We play too negatively for me as well, we're poor at the back. Seems to be a far better bet to try and be positive. Think this has been noticeable at times this season. As for players taking it to the corner after 75 minutes I find it embarrassing. Call it professional if you like but it's dire in my eyes. Sports are supposed to be an entertainment business, frankly I'd rather draw than watch 20 minutes of anti football drivel. The setting up for a 0-0 away from home also clearly isn't working. We're not good enough defensively to stop the opposition scoring. Better to be positive from the start for me. Each season under Clough seems to pose more questions than answers, I'm not sure this is a positive thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 They have not paid off the revolving loan, thats why its called a revolving loan. It gets paid down every year out of ST renewal monies and then they borrow against it again to cover operating costs. Then come ST renewal time they have to repeat the process again. In answer to your question G-Star that exactly what i think, starve the owners of customer money and they will either improve the product to attract more customers or weaken the product further and look to sell on the business for the best deal possible for themselves. What they won't do is hang on for ever while the costs go up and the income goes down. There is no guarantee that we will get better owners next time but i for one am willing to take the chance because the alternative is death by apathy. After 4 years of clough and the Rush admitting that FFP is dead in the water is there anyone left who seriously expects this flawed project to succeed ? The revolving loan has been paid off, as shown in the latest set of accounts released. Well I can't say I'm over the moon with what is happening but have come to accept that unless somebody brings a sugar daddy along this is the way things have got to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 So every half decent football team has had heavy investment? I could name you countless examples where teams succeed without pumping in millions, Palace are 6th, there you go there's one. Enough people in this thread have explained this point. The bottom line is, that nobody knows what would happen if Clough went, it's all speculation. People like you and Mcsilks refuse to accept that it's possible somebody out there might be able to do a better job. I'd rather he go and see what happens, if we got relegated under a new manager then so be it, i'd take that risk in the hope of us challenging for promotion, under Clough we've been doing the same thing for 4 years and there's no hope of promotion. Football is suppose to be entertaining, where we are at the moment isnt entertaining. It's draining my excitement for the club as a whole, i used to travel all over the place to watch us, now i'll rarely venture past London. Point 1 - are we now judging team success by where they are in the league in late January? Palace we 1st or 2nd a month or two ago and have started slipping, they could well end up midtable Point 2 - football at Pride Park has been entertaining this year with the exception of the last 2 matches, how can you comment on how entertaining it is if you only go to matches in London, especially when you know how poor we are away from home? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 If that was true the table would look something like this 1. Bolton 2. Wolves 3. Blackburn 4. Forest 5. Leicester 6. Cardiff 7. Birmingham (still have King, Zigic etc) 8. Hull 9. Ipswich 10. Leeds 11. Brighton 12. Derby 13. Bristol City 14. Watford 15. Boro 16. Burnley 17. Palace 18. Sheff W 19. Blackpool 20. Millwall 21. Huddersfield 22. Charlton 23. Barnsley 24. Pboro We have had people on here claiming our wage bill is bottom 3 or 4 in the division, when did we suddenly jump up to 12th? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastKentRam Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Point 1 - are we now judging team success by where they are in the league in late January? Palace we 1st or 2nd a month or two ago and have started slipping, they could well end up midtable Point 2 - football at Pride Park has been entertaining this year with the exception of the last 2 matches, how can you comment on how entertaining it is if you only go to matches in London, especially when you know how poor we are away from home? Point 1, you're right, should wait until the end of the season before summing up, though predicting where abouts we'll finish this season is as easy as predicting where Man United will finish every season. Point 2, i do think i have a more negative view of the club as i only watch us away predominantly. This season I've been to 7 games, seen us get 3 points (3 draws) and score 4 goals, understandable negative opinion. I was at the Brighton home game and that was far from entertaining, so just the last 2 games isnt quite true. Was making the point that if you're good at home and poor away you cant say overall that we play attractive football just because we do in half our games (generalising), they cancel out one another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastKentRam Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 PS if you ever do venture out of London, get the beers in. We could have this debate on the train. 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> Might be going to Birmingham as i've never been before, that, Watford and Blackpool are probably the only games i'll bother going to this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Point 1, you're right, should wait until the end of the season before summing up, though predicting where abouts we'll finish this season is as easy as predicting where Man United will finish every season. Point 2, i do think i have a more negative view of the club as i only watch us away predominantly. This season I've been to 7 games, seen us get 3 points (3 draws) and score 4 goals, understandable negative opinion. I was at the Brighton home game and that was far from entertaining, so just the last 2 games isnt quite true. Was making the point that if you're good at home and poor away you cant say overall that we play attractive football just because we do in half our games (generalising), they cancel out one another. Fair point. I went to first 3 away matches and they were all ***** so I stopped going! Therefore I suppose my opinion is only really based on what I see at Pride Park. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 We have had people on here claiming our wage bill is bottom 3 or 4 in the division, when did we suddenly jump up to 12th? Probably at the Q & A when rush answered a question saying this was not the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 We have had people on here claiming our wage bill is bottom 3 or 4 in the division, when did we suddenly jump up to 12th? I never really into the "bottom-6 wage bill" thing, but actually looking at that list I think there's fair few teams below us spending more and none of them listed above. So maybe it is true after all? Parachute payments really are crap when you've been out the Prem a few years. 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':(' /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Probably at the Q & A when rush answered a question saying this was not the case. Never saw that. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 I never really into the "bottom-6 wage bill" thing, but actually looking at that list I think there's fair few teams below us spending more and none of them listed above. So maybe it is true after all? Parachute payments really are crap when you've been out the Prem a few years. 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':(' /> Looking at that list the only teams I would have below us are Palace, Millwall, Charlton, Barnsley and Peterborough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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