eddie Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 I have to say that I'd rather Theo than Sammon, and most sensible people would. Replacing Theo with Sammon - or vice-versa - is not a like-for-like replacement. You have to consider whether the Sammon-Ward partnership is more or less effective than the Theo-Ward partnership. My gut feeling is that we perhaps performed better with Theo in the side as opposed to with Sammon - but I'm not inclined to go back through appearances this season. In fact, I'd hazard a guess that of the games Theo played, Sammon probably played most of them too, so perhaps a 4-4-2 with Ward out wide and a Theo-Sammon strike partnership is preferable to an either-or. Of course, this would mean that one out of Bryson, Hendrick and Hughes would have to make way (assuming that Coutts or Jacobs plays on the other flank). It's easy this management lark (re-installing CM01-02 in 5....4....3....) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 Less falling over. - please provide comparible statistics Better ball retention. - please provide comparible statistics Better work rate. - carthorses work harder than thoroughbred racehorses! Your point is? Creates opportunities for others. - please provide comparible statistics Doesn't kill as many attacking moves as Theo. - please provide comparible statistics Actually wants to play for this football club and do well, Theo might in principal but he doesn't show it on the football pitch. Half arsed, ill-focused waster syndrome so far this year. - please provide comparible statistics It's all good and well putting forward YOUR subjective opinion, which may or may not be accurate, but they nevertheless are NOT facts. You don't know any of the above for a fact. So if you're going to state something, back it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westbrom1404 Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 Can I ask for a possible reason for Robinson not being brought on against Wolves? Has he been injured recently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samtheram83 Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 what do cart horses and thoroughbreds have to do with humans and football? thats a pointless comment. when was the last time u actually saw a cart horse? re-runs of steptoe and sun no doubt. i would argue that any thoroughbred race horse works a ton harder than a cart horse does anyway! what with all of the training and events they need to be fit and ready for instead of just plodding along with a cart day in day out. or not as the case may be cos for the life of me i can't remember seeing a cart horse outside of a museum/village fate/historical re-enactment! never mind asking what Mr Tibbs point was, whats ur point exactly? and why bring horses into it? sammon provides more for the team, has been getting better all year, has a quality attitude to his team mates and the game in general. theo is infuriatingly inconsistant, disappears in games and creates next to nothing for his team mates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFCfranco Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 Can I ask for a possible reason for Robinson not being brought on against Wolves? Has he been injured recently? i was thinking that as well, we were begging for a striker but we didnt get one, probably because on the one man up front and clogh wasnt willing to change anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 Replacing Theo with Sammon - or vice-versa - is not a like-for-like replacement. You have to consider whether the Sammon-Ward partnership is more or less effective than the Theo-Ward partnership. My gut feeling is that we perhaps performed better with Theo in the side as opposed to with Sammon - but I'm not inclined to go back through appearances this season. In fact, I'd hazard a guess that of the games Theo played, Sammon probably played most of them too, so perhaps a 4-4-2 with Ward out wide and a Theo-Sammon strike partnership is preferable to an either-or. Of course, this would mean that one out of Bryson, Hendrick and Hughes would have to make way (assuming that Coutts or Jacobs plays on the other flank). It's easy this management lark (re-installing CM01-02 in 5....4....3....) Eddie, that's probably a fair assessment. My point would probably be that Sammon is symptomatic of (what I think is) a poor set-up/formation, and Theo tends to reflect a period of positive intent and attacking play with winning results (pre-December). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TroyDyer Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 I'd take Theo over Sammon. I know it's a bit between choosing between a broken arm, or a broken leg though. People that take Sammon over Robinson do so based on the idea of him as a target man. Now that could work with Ward playing off him, if he was a target man. But he isn't. He doesn't win a header, and doesn't control the ball. Sammon doesn't hold the ball up, win anything in the air, has a dreadful first touch, and is poor infront of goal. Robinson doesn't hold the ball up, win anything in the air, has a dreadful first touch, but has pace, adds another dimension, and is slightly better in front of goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFCfranco Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 Less falling over. - please provide comparible statistics Better ball retention. - please provide comparible statistics Better work rate. - carthorses work harder than thoroughbred racehorses! Your point is? Creates opportunities for others. - please provide comparible statistics Doesn't kill as many attacking moves as Theo. - please provide comparible statistics Actually wants to play for this football club and do well, Theo might in principal but he doesn't show it on the football pitch. Half arsed, ill-focused waster syndrome so far this year. - please provide comparible statistics It's all good and well putting forward YOUR subjective opinion, which may or may not be accurate, but they nevertheless are NOT facts. You don't know any of the above for a fact. So if you're going to state something, back it up. you don't really need stats for this, you just need to watch a game and who the hell has stats for falling over? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pearl Ram Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 "what do cart horses and thoroughbreds have to do with humans and football"? That'll be the beef pies me owd. 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 what do cart horses and thoroughbreds have to do with humans and football? thats a pointless comment. when was the last time u actually saw a cart horse? re-runs of steptoe and sun no doubt. i would argue that any thoroughbred race horse works a ton harder than a cart horse does anyway! what with all of the training and events they need to be fit and ready for instead of just plodding along with a cart day in day out. or not as the case may be cos for the life of me i can't remember seeing a cart horse outside of a museum/village fate/historical re-enactment! never mind asking what Mr Tibbs point was, whats ur point exactly? and why bring horses into it? sammon provides more for the team, has been getting better all year, has a quality attitude to his team mates and the game in general. theo is infuriatingly inconsistant, disappears in games and creates next to nothing for his team mates. Oh, you see it is relevent. The old saying "horses for courses" and all that. Does it matter that Sammon works harder? I bet he works harder than say... Eric Cantona EVER did? but it's about what's most suitable and effective for the cause. A bloke jumping about, missing headers, miscontrolling the ball, generally looking like he's out of his depth, but doing it non-stop, is applaudable. But you're very easily pleased! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastKentRam Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 Give up mate, look at the 'Sammon is awful' thread. I've argued most of your points already, very few agree. We'll be proved right in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 you don't really need stats for this, you just need to watch a game and who the hell has stats for falling over? So you've gone full circle. Either your 'reasons' are important, or they're not! If falling over etc was a key contributory factor to the game, OPTA would release statistics for it! However, goalscoring etc, is, and the stats are compiled, and goals per minutes, Theo is better. End of. You cannot win games without goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westbrom1404 Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 i was thinking that as well, we were begging for a striker but we didnt get one, probably because on the one man up front and clogh wasnt willing to change anything. Disagree with Clough's decision on that one then, although I was baying for Wolves' blood from my allegiance to WBA. Be interesting to see what the lineup is tonight and whether he changes it around if the game is similar to Saturday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samtheram83 Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 Eric cantona was known to be one of the hardest working players off the pitch. he changed the mentality of not only the Man U players but Fergason as well. he regularly played on after training and demanded peter schmeichel stayed to as the youth keepers weren't good enough. he even used to take extra training with the young lads and taught Beckham, Giggs, scholes et al the value of professionalism, hard work and training. so yes, i think eric contona did work pretty damn hard actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFCfranco Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 So you've gone full circle. Either your 'reasons' are important, or they're not! If falling over etc was a key contributory factor to the game, OPTA would release statistics for it! However, goalscoring etc, is, and the stats are compiled, and goals per minutes, Theo is better. End of. You cannot win games without goals. stats can be important but can also be misleading. saying give me stats to see how many both fall over and who wants to play for the club more is just silly. sammon and theo are different type of players as a poacher i'd rather have theo as a target man or a striker that does the "dirty work". if we played one but not the other then we'd have to change the style of football we're playing. you'll also notice their aren't stats to show how much space sammon creates for his partner but whatever... sammon and theo are diffeent type of player comparing them is stupid. end of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 Sammon > Theo: Less falling over. Marginally better first "touch". Better ball retention. Better work rate. Creates opportunities for others. Doesn't kill as many attacking moves as Theo. Actually wants to play for this football club and do well, Theo might in principal but he doesn't show it on the football pitch. Half arsed, ill-focused waster syndrome so far this year. Sammon also seems to have an eye for a killer pass. For example, the equaliser against Forest. You only have to ask other club's supporters what they thought of him. He's a big, annoying presence up front, creates space for others and his general work makes the side better all round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 I'd take Theo over Sammon. I know it's a bit between choosing between a broken arm, or a broken leg though. People that take Sammon over Robinson do so based on the idea of him as a target man. Now that could work with Ward playing off him, if he was a target man. But he isn't. He doesn't win a header, and doesn't control the ball. Sammon doesn't hold the ball up, win anything in the air, has a dreadful first touch, and is poor infront of goal. Robinson doesn't hold the ball up, win anything in the air, has a dreadful first touch, but has pace, adds another dimension, and is slightly better in front of goal. Sammon brings others into the game, Theo scores tap ins and gives up possession. Theo's great if you're willing to play basically with ten men for that chance that he'll get on the end of something in his own Theoy way, but if you want a player who will actually add something, Sammon is the way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastKentRam Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 Sammon gives possession away a lot through his poor ball control, so dont really buy that argument. Theo is equally wasteful with the ball imo. LOL on Sammon's killer pass against Forest, i could have made that pass. It was a good decision, not a killer pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stedcfc Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 So you've gone full circle. Either your 'reasons' are important, or they're not! If falling over etc was a key contributory factor to the game, OPTA would release statistics for it! However, goalscoring etc, is, and the stats are compiled, and goals per minutes, Theo is better. End of. You cannot win games without goals. Your obsession with stats is silly. If stats were really the be all and end all in terms of defining a players ability. Managers would simply look at statistics and buy them based on these rather than send scouts to watch them. But it seems its always the other way. The main stat is that weve scored more this season than last season and if Sammon was so terrible this wouldnt of happened seeing as though he's played 95% of our game time. Sammon is a hell of a lot better off the ball than Theo is. Both arent particularly brilliant at controlling it however once Sammon has it under control he generally good with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 I have no obsession with stats! I challenged someone to back up their 'statement' with actual facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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